Dwarf Quest: casual dungeon crawler

[DylanNagel]

gOHi2BMO6Vo



Original post:

Hi everyone!

My name is Dylan, I'm an indie game developer. Currently I'm working on a dungeon crawler called 'Dwarf Quest'. A few screenshots:

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_1.jpg

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_2.jpg

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_3.jpg

It's still in early stages (most of the art is placeholder), but I'd love to get some feedback from you guys to find out in which direction I should be headed.

So far there's exploration, finding treasure chests with gold, simple monster combat and proceeding to the next dungeon level. It would be great to reach a nice look and feel reminiscent of board games such as HeroQuest and keep it accessible. In that respect I was quite impressed with Deep Deep Dungeon.

Maybe you can help me out! What I'd like to know especially is the following:

1. Controls: point and click, swipe or virtual joystick?
As the game is tile-based, the 'click where you want to go' approach works pretty well at the moment. Still, I know a lot of us appreciate a virtual joystick too.

2. Combat: real-time or turn-based?
This will be at the heart of the game, so it better be good! At the moment I'm envisioning a system with various skills that you can unlock and improve. Still, it should stay as simple as the special skill buttons in Battlehearts, I'd say. Of course, monsters should have a few skills too, so that you need to use a healthy combo of dexterity and tactics.

3. Scope: one big game or expansion packs?
Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but this one's been puzzling me for a while. I've been reading a lot about free games that offer In-App Purchases to unlock extra content such as levels and characters. To me personally, this sounds great, but generally speaking, a lot of the Touch Arcade forum members seem to object to it. I'd hate to get this one wrong.

Thanks a lot in advance for taking the time to read all this. I do hope you'll share your thoughts, and maybe even sign up for the TestFlight list (http://wcrd.co/sJDHSW). Cheers!

Dylan

[LazyGamer]

Looks nice already, has a 'Cadaver'ish look.

1. Point & Click for me

2. Turn based. Tap a tile 3 units away and 3 rounds pass. Click a monster, get options to go there or attack by ranged weapon. When fighting, just give some nice quickmenus for next action or tap a door to run. If you do not act, nothing happens, or maybe some automated fight option you can stop at any time.

3. With all the (bad) freemium stuff around IAP has a bad name, but if you make it clear what is to pay, why not? But it must be clear that the paid parts really offer something (new dungeons, new monsters, new items, new story).

If you want to avoid IAP, maybe make it episodic and use Cloud to carry over characters to new episodes (if that is possible).

[Dave in the basement]

This looks interesting and I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for posting!

Dave

[slewis7]

LazyGamer: thanks for mentioning Cadaver. As soon as I saw the screen shot I knew it reminded me of a beloved Amiga game, but I could not remember the title.

This game looks very cool. I hope I get selected for the beta.

[Gaz]

Hi everyone!

1. Controls: point and click, swipe or virtual joystick?
As the game is tile-based, the 'click where you want to go' approach works pretty well at the moment. Still, I know a lot of us appreciate a virtual joystick too.


If touch based movement works, I'd rather use that over a virtual joystick.

2. Combat: real-time or turn-based?
This will be at the heart of the game, so it better be good! At the moment I'm envisioning a system with various skills that you can unlock and improve.

Tough one, both work well and appeal to different players. For games that have a lot more strategy or tactics about them though I like turn based play.

3. Scope: one big game or expansion packs?
Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but this one's been puzzling me for a while.

I think it's worth doing for expansion packs. If you're selling the game and have IAP though, I'd make sure what you sell stands on its own as a good game and the IAP can come later as additional material.

IAP just has a bit of a bad rep at the moment because of "free" games that require boat loads of cash be spent on buying pots of gold (and other named variations) to really play the game.

However, expansion packs really sounds like an ideal use of the system.

[venasque]

I just wanted to say that if you're going for a HeroQuest art style you totally succeeded. That is exactly what I thought of when I looked at your screenshots before reading your post.

I have to admit that after being reminded of HeroQuest I was kinda hoping the game might play out in a similar fashion. Explore a dungeon, "seeing" more and more of it as you do so. Taking an adventure card, playing out the encounter, things like that. HeroQuest was a lot of fun with a lot of light RPG "quests" to accomplish. But nowadays you can have the computer be your DM and have more interesting goals while still maintaining a boardgame feel.

Anyway I'm just dreaming outloud and I'll go back to your questions.

1) Point and click (tap).

2) Turn based

3) Not a big fan of IAP. Like others they have a bad rep and people sort of get their backs up right away. You end up having to talk them off the ledge each time.

[DylanNagel]

Wow, thanks a lot for your replies, guys! Great stuff indeed.

Looks nice already, has a 'Cadaver'ish look.

I hadn't seen that game before, but it is a fantastic reference with loads of gameplay ideas. Thanks for mentioning it.


Tap a tile 3 units away and 3 rounds pass. Click a monster, get options to go there or attack by ranged weapon. When fighting, just give some nice quickmenus for next action or tap a door to run. If you do not act, nothing happens, or maybe some automated fight option you can stop at any time.


Nice, I like those suggestions.


With all the (bad) freemium stuff around IAP has a bad name, but if you make it clear what is to pay, why not? But it must be clear that the paid parts really offer something (new dungeons, new monsters, new items, new story).

If you want to avoid IAP, maybe make it episodic and use Cloud to carry over characters to new episodes (if that is possible).

That makes sense, and good to hear there's room for such an approach. I'll give it some more thought.


This looks interesting and I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for posting!

Thank you for your interest, Dave!


This game looks very cool. I hope I get selected for the beta.

Cheers, and I just added you on TestFlight. I expect to send a new version out this weekend.


I think it's worth doing for expansion packs. If you're selling the game and have IAP though, I'd make sure what you sell stands on its own as a good game and the IAP can come later as additional material.

IAP just has a bit of a bad rep at the moment because of "free" games that require boat loads of cash be spent on buying pots of gold (and other named variations) to really play the game.

However, expansion packs really sounds like an ideal use of the system.

Excellent points, I'll take all of that into consideration.


I just wanted to say that if you're going for a HeroQuest art style you totally succeeded. That is exactly what I thought of when I looked at your screenshots before reading your post.

That's really great to hear! As a matter of fact, when I started working on the game in December, I was reminded of HeroQuest so much that I called up a bunch of friends to play it again. So yes, definitely a source of inspiration.



I have to admit that after being reminded of HeroQuest I was kinda hoping the game might play out in a similar fashion. Explore a dungeon, "seeing" more and more of it as you do so. Taking an adventure card, playing out the encounter, things like that. HeroQuest was a lot of fun with a lot of light RPG "quests" to accomplish. But nowadays you can have the computer be your DM and have more interesting goals while still maintaining a boardgame feel.

Even though I'd love to have HeroQuest on my iPad too, I do want to create something original. Then again, my current ideas on combat might actually come close to 'playing out the encounter'. I'll definitely think about having adventure / treasure cards, because that's always a lot of fun. In that respect I'm a big fan of the upgrade system in Solomon's Keep: super easy, and highly randomized. You never know what you're going to get but it always feels like a reward.


Thanks again for all your input, gents! I will post updates in this thread as the game progresses.

[LazyGamer]

Impressive if you pull this off with enough content to make it diverse enough.

[Defard]

Wow hero quest...that takes me back! Touch & turn based is my preference.

I buy a lot of apps and when I see iap think it's going to be mafia wars type rubbish so I stay away. I suggest expansion packs / new monster / character types as a way to generate extra revenue!

[DylanNagel]

Thanks for your vote, Defard.

In the past few days I've been working on the game, and I have another question for you guys.

Q: Action bar like in World of WarCraft or context sensitive icons close to their target?

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_4.jpg

A seperate action bar keeps the rest of the screen clear. However, you'll have to move around your fingers between the bar and the center of the screen to walk around and selecting monster.

The drawback of context sensitive of course is that the buttons could obscure all the action. Might be difficult to see the monsters and click on the floor to walk around.

Thanks in advance for your input!

[LazyGamer]

With stick control the actions would obviously fit in the lower right corner, which makes it feel more like an action game.

When moving by clicking floor tiles the context menus would make sense. Just obviously put them below our hero or the monster so your fingers obscure less of the screen.

Option B for me.

[Defard]

It depends on whether its turn-based or not. If I can see the monster it can be nice to touch the attack icon and your warrior automatically walks up to the monster and attacks it. If I have to push up five times to get to his square then push the attack button it can be a pain in the backside! Fine for the days of the zx spectrum...not fine today lol

[DylanNagel]

When moving by clicking floor tiles the context menus would make sense. Just obviously put them below our hero or the monster so your fingers obscure less of the screen.

I'll play around with the exact spot of the action buttons. Key will indeed be to obscure as little of the screen as possible.

It depends on whether its turn-based or not. If I can see the monster it can be nice to touch the attack icon and your warrior automatically walks up to the monster and attacks it. If I have to push up five times to get to his square then push the attack button it can be a pain in the backside! Fine for the days of the zx spectrum...not fine today lol

I agree, it would be a pain when you have to click so many times. I'm trying to get a feel for how many presses would be ok. It would be a shame if you only have to click on a monster and you can / have to sit back and wait for everything to finish.

Even though Dwarf Quest will be a casual / elegant dungeon crawler, I aim for at least a minimum level of tactics. :)

[jacketsodaly]

It's still in early stages (most of the art is placeholder), but I'd love to get some feedback from you guys to find out in which direction I should be headed.

So far there's exploration, finding treasure chests with gold, simple monster combat and proceeding to the next dungeon level. It would be great to reach a nice look and feel reminiscent of board games such as HeroQuest and keep it accessible. In that respect I was quite impressed with Deep Deep Dungeon.
I agree with you, thanks!












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[DylanNagel]

Hey everyone, just wanted to give an update on Dwarf Quest.

Gameplay and interface are progressing nicely. Dungeon exploration is fast point and click. As soon as you enter a room with monsters, the game switches to turn-based. Walking, fighting, defensive stand and drinking a healing potion all cost action points. After you end your turn, all monsters take their actions, etc. When everyone is defeated, the game changes back to free movement.

I'm working on auto-save everywhere, but maybe I'll restrict it to empty rooms. If anyone has input on what kind of save game features you'd like to see, please let me know.

Currently all assets are placeholder, but fresh concept art as well as fully animated character models are being made as I type this. Also, the game will feature a custom title track as well as an ambient level track.

Performance is great on iPad 1 and 2. Haven't tested much on iPhone / iPod touch just yet, as Dwarf Quest will launch on iPad only. I'm definitely considering Universal soon afterwards.

The alpha testing phase starts at the end of next week, so if you want in on an early version, be sure to join the project on Test Flight (http://wcrd.co/sJDHSW).

I plan to submit v1.0 in the second half of March, so hopefully the game will be available by the end of Q1... that's a pretty tight schedule, but I'm serious about this! :)

[LazyGamer]

I plan to submit v1.0 in the second half of March, so hopefully the game will be available by the end of Q1... that's a pretty tight schedule, but I'm serious about this! :)
Yes, very tight, that sounds like you wont be implement much of a story or puzzles in that time.

Another Rogue like is nice too, but there isn't really a lack of those.

[Marcus70]

Really like the 3-D graphics. Have you thought about expanding to have a control a larger party of maybe two or three?

[DungeonCrawler]

I know you said you were going for originality, and I think you are headed in the right direction. You might want to chek out this old game from the 90's. It's called four crystals of trazere. It might help guide you in mechanics and what's been done already. Personally, I'd like to see something similar but updated in graphics. It's probably hard to find the game anymore but you might find it on abadonware if you needed to see more.

Here's the wiki link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_(1992_video_game).

You tube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YATIoN9_RuA

It's got puzzles, a spell system, less about fighting (real time), great story, etc.

[DylanNagel]

Yes, very tight, that sounds like you wont be implement much of a story or puzzles in that time.

Another Rogue like is nice too, but there isn't really a lack of those.

Fair feedback, thanks. I'll do my best to get the right amount of cool stuff in there.

Really like the 3-D graphics. Have you thought about expanding to have a control a larger party of maybe two or three?

I definitely considered it! Would most likely increase the tactical aspect of the game, which would be good. However, for now I'll stick to just the one character. Maybe a 'Dwarf Squad' sequel! :)

I know you said you were going for originality, and I think you are headed in the right direction. You might want to chek out this old game from the 90's. It's called four crystals of trazere. It might help guide you in mechanics and what's been done already. Personally, I'd like to see something similar but updated in graphics. It's probably hard to find the game anymore but you might find it on abadonware if you needed to see more.

It's got puzzles, a spell system, less about fighting (real time), great story, etc.

Thanks for sharing that reference, lots of great mechanics indeed!

Ok, back to building the game. :)

[DylanNagel]

Tonight I sent an alpha version of the game to the testers group, which includes some of the people in this thread. Already received great feedback too, thanks folks!

From here on I'll be creating about 10-15 levels for the full game. I'll also implement fresh 3D character models as they come in, as well as sound and music.

It's such a joy to work on your own game. We live in a great age! :)

[Zenthor]

I only just started playing but so far I have noticed a few things

1. There is a lack of content on the first floor and also that stairway on the first room was misleading and I thought I had to go down there for a bit.

2. I don't like the combat so far but maybe I will get used to it.

3. You could make a selection if you want to point and click or use a control pad in an options menu if you get around to it.

Now to your questions!

How does it play? Do You like it? Hate it? Why?

Personally I don't like point n click but it plays well.

Are the levels too short or too long?

The first floor was a great length but had a lack of enemies the 2nd floor was even better with the amount of enemies.

Picking up items from chests and enemies

this is great putting rare enemy drops on certain enemies would definitely add to how much someone would want to play.

What do you think of the auto map

The auto map is very helpful but maybe a function could be implemented that would make the map stay on your screen so you don't have to keep clicking the menu button.

What do you expect from the auto save

I expect that every time I go down a floor It auto saves there should also just be a save function.

Well done on your game so far Dylan I'm sure it will be great :)

-Scott A

[evopanop]

Signed up for the TestFlight :)

[DylanNagel]

Scott: thanks for your feedback!

evopanop: welcome aboard, I'll send you the latest build asap!

[Zenthor]

Scott: thanks for your feedback!

evopanop: welcome aboard, I'll send you the latest build asap!


No Problem!

[JoshCM]

Played the 'alpha' its pretty cool. :)

[LazyGamer]

It's such a joy to work on your own game. We live in a great age! :)
yes, the more I read in the forums the more I want to write my own game too

[DylanNagel]

Thanks again for checking, Josh!

LazyGamer: go for it!


Another update on Dwarf Quest: received a lot of great feedback from the testers group. Already made a number of improvements based on everyone's comments, especially interface-wise.

Also, the main and level music tracks are in, and they are awesome! They won't be included in a test build until beta, but I think you guys will like them quite a bit.

In addition, the first custom 3D character models arrived last week: the dwarf and a monster. It's really rewarding to see the game come to life and find its own identity!

Next up: level design, which includes a list of props and interactive elements.


I know I said the goal was to release Dwarf Quest in Q1, but I might have to spend a little more effort on this to make it extra nice. :)

[LazyGamer]

I know I said the goal was to release Dwarf Quest in Q1, but I might have to spend a little more effort on this to make it extra nice. :)
So any news on this? Giving it more time for extra quality always is a good idea, but it is a little too quiet in this topic.

[DylanNagel]

Thanks a lot for your interest, LazyGamer! It's been way too long since my last post, definitely. Been a bit busy with freelance work and everything, but I certainly have been working on Dwarf Quest as well.

The GUI is still placeholder, but most of the character and level graphics are starting to take shape. Combat is still turn-based, and more elegant since I got rid of the icons. It's mostly level building from this point on, aiming for a Universal release on all iOS devices in June.

A few screenshots:

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_5.jpg

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_6.jpg

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_7.jpg

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_8.jpg

Thanks again for your interest!

[mjonesgraphics]

[QUOTE=LazyGamer;2090867]Looks nice already, has a 'Cadaver'ish look.


My thoughts exactly! That's a good thing !

[geppetto]

This is looking awesome. Can't wait to play it :)

[DylanNagel]

Thanks mjonesgraphics and geppetto!

Update: Just sent Dwarf Quest v0.50 to our group on TestFlight. Levels 4 and 5 are now included, although they are still a bit rough. Lots of new environment textures thanks to Jimmy Livefjord, improving the overall look and feel of the game. On-screen tips help new players get started.

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_9.jpg

In level 4, our hero enters the caverns.


Even though I won't be able to release the game this month, I'm happy and confident about its progress. Hopefully you guys will bear with me and patiently wait for it. In the meantime, please feel free to like the Dwarf Quest page on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/dwarfquest).

I appreciate your interest!

[JoshCM]

still fun. :)

[LazyGamer]

Creative stairs design :D

[DylanNagel]

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to let you know work on Dwarf Quest is going well, lots of progress is being made. The release date of August 24th is still my target, so that means crunch-time for the next few weeks!

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_10.jpg

You are being watched!


Also, I am proud to announced that the talented Stolen Couch Games (http://stolencouchgames.com/) team is working on the logo, graphic user interface and app icon! As many of you will know, they did a great job on Kids vs Goblins (http://www.stolencouchgames.com/kidsvsgoblins/).


In case you haven't "liked" Dwarf Quest on Facebook yet: why not do so now (http://www.facebook.com/dwarfquest)?

You'll find playthrough movies of the original Dwarf Quest games there... I made those in 1992, which is 20 years ago! :)

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_11.jpg


Thanks for your interest, everyone!

[DylanNagel]

http://www.dwarfquestgame.com/toucharcade/Dwarf_Quest_14.jpg

The game is nearing completion, folks! With the new GUI in place, extra music, "battle cards" to boost your skills in combat and of course an end boss... it's all taking shape.

Be sure to like us on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/dwarfquest), and keep an eye out for the game when it releases on August 24th!

[Leegames]

Joypad and actionbars would make my day. :)

[juan13]

Will this be released this Thursday? Also, could you post any gameplay video and some info such as gow many levels etc

[DylanNagel]

Hi Juan, thanks for asking. The game consists of nine levels, including two bosses.

Dwarf Quest has been submitted to Apple for review last week, so if all goes according to plan it will be available this Friday, August 24th. The trailer will go live on that very same day!

[juan13]

Hi Juan, thanks for asking. The game consists of nine levels, including two bosses.

Dwarf Quest has been submitted to Apple for review last week, so if all goes according to plan it will be available this Friday, August 24th. The trailer will go live on that very same day!

Thanks for the reply. So, could you estimate how long will it take for someone to complete the game?

[DylanNagel]

Hello Juan,

Dwarf Quest offers about two hours worth of gameplay.
And I decided to release the trailer today already, so here it is!

gOHi2BMO6Vo

Also check out the website:
http://www.dwarfquestgame.com

[slewis7]

Wow. The graphics have been nicely improved since the beta versions I played. I am looking forward to the release.

[Biggavelli]

Ill buy this...release date?

[DylanNagel]

Thanks Steve, I'm glad you like the updated look!

Biggavelli: Dwarf Quest is set to release this Friday, August 24th. Launch price is $0.99 / €0,79 in the first week, the regular price will be $2.99 / €2,39 .

Cheers!

[master lee]

Insta buy insta buy insta buy!!!

[Ben!]

This looks terrific. Looking forward to buying it. Am I correct in thinking its iPad only?

[DylanNagel]

master lee, Ben!: thanks for the support!

I'm very happy to let you know Dwarf Quest was finally approved yesterday, so the Friday launch is still on.

Also: the game will be Universal. It's been tested on the iPad 1, 2 and 3 as well as the iPhone 4S and iPod touch 4. If you have an older device, you might want to wait until the first update, in which I'd like to improve performance across the board.

But if you have an iPad 2 or 3, you'll be able to play the game as it was intended to be played!

[badmanj]

Can't wait for this - looks so nice. Weird release date though - sure you don't want to release it tonight like everyone else?!

Two hours sounds like hardly any gameplay, unfortunately. In the first post you mentioned you were considering 'add on' quests etc as IAP's - is this your intention now? I don't mind that as long it's clear up front and there's not too long a gap between releases...

Cheers,

Jamie.

[DylanNagel]

Hi Jamie!

Thanks a lot for your kind words. The release date is August 24th, to celebrate the 20 year anniversary since I made the original Dwarf Quest. :)

Maybe it's a risk, but I don't mind taking a bit of a chance to keep the story in tact.

I want to be as transparent about the hours of gameplay as possible. I hope about two hours will be enough for you to get the game, if not that's perfectly fine of course.

I do have updates and expansions planned, but as an indie developer I'll also have to consider how well this first version will do. Of course I'm committed to providing amazing experiences for you!

Thanks again for taking the time to share your sentiments, I appreciate it!

[master lee]

That's the spirit DylanNagel me and my friends will support you.

[Nleground]

DylanNagel
Hey Dylan,

So you need about two hours to finish the game. Is it replayable more than one time?

[DylanNagel]

master lee: I appreciate your support!

Nleground: I personally do think you'll enjoy playing it more than once. It is also very likely that one of the first updates will include a tougher mode to unlock after you finish the game on normal.

[Ben!]

I'll never stop being in awe of people complaining (or expressing concern) about two hours for $1-$3. Ridiculous.

[DylanNagel]

Dwarf Quest just became available in New Zealand! It will come out at midnight in your timezone, so just sit tight and be sure to check it out first thing in the morning.

Thanks everyone, looking forward to your feedback!

[kukulcan]

Bought to support a fellow developer. Like the general style and looks pretty polished. But I had a lockup in level 3 or so and without save feature that is a little inconvenient.

[DylanNagel]

Hey Martin, cheers! Sorry about that inconvenience, let me know where it was exactly and I'll fix it in the next update.

Also, there's a topic now in the iPhone Games section:
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?p=2403036