I have ideas You have the skills lets make lots of money

[Dorfdad]

who do you contact when you have an Idea for a few apps, but don't have programming experience? Can you partner with someone and have a partner ship without getting screwed out of your idea?

I have some simple, unique, and some other more fleshed out apps that I think could do pretty well but I'm not up to speed enough to make them happen.

Whats a fair revenue split on these kind of deals and has anyone done anything like this?

[Phi6]

To be honest having an idea is not enough. Watch Dragon's Den, ideas are worth nothing until they are realised.

I doubt you will get much money/revenue split for just coming up with an idea. After all, if you could, patent applications wouldn't be so complex (you actually have to provide a "blueprint" that someone could take and implement the idea for themselves)

EDIT:

To re-iterate my point, its the effort (programming) that brings home the money. And rightly so.

[Frand]

Agreed. However if you have the ability to flesh out your idea into a solid design document, there would be tangible value to your contribution.

[Zandog]

Whats a fair revenue split on these kind of deals and has anyone done anything like this?

Okay.. :rolleyes: You gotta have something skill wise to bring to the table on this one. You can't just ask if someones willing to develop your idea.
Agreed. However if you have the ability to flesh out your idea into a solid design document, there would be tangible value to your contribution.
If you can provide at minimum, concept design knowledge of what your idea would look like. I'd listen as well.
ideas are worth nothing until they are realized. I doubt you will get much money/revenue split for just coming up with an idea. And rightly so.
ouch.

[NotYou]

(1 skill)=(1,000,000,000,000 ideas)

And that ratio is about you could expect to make.

[Eric5h5]

Whats a fair revenue split on these kind of deals and has anyone done anything like this?

"Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration." So a 1/99 split seems fair. Otherwise you'll have to pay up-front for programmers to do work-for-hire, keeping in mind that $100+/hr isn't uncommon.

--Eric

[Dorfdad]

Understood, I simply was asking as I do have some fleshed out ideas, and I do have some ability to program but it will require some more time and effort on my side, which is the way to go it seems.

I could add that 1000 programmers with crappy apps couldn't equal 1 great idea. Not pointed at anyone but I'm saying it takes both. So many programs have a basic idea but no depth that it ruins the project.

[jonaswills]

I could add that 1000 programmers with crappy apps couldn't equal 1 great idea.

Only if that idea becomes something... if it stays an idea it is worthless. I have this great idea for super quantum traveling but I can't find the people to make it, 1000 cars is still much better ;-D

[mehware]

Im sure certain dev groups might be able to work something out if the idea just hasn't been done before but you would be getting a very low percentage. If you did get 10% which I think is high on a 99c app. You would make 7c a sale (after apple takes their share). You would have to sell a lot for that to add up.

Unless your not in it for the money and just want to get your name on something. Most developers have tons of their own ideas that they would like to flesh out first.

[Phi6]

As a programmer, I would accept a fair revenue split from someone who not only has an idea, but also willing to do the art, marketing, secretary for Company matters, accounting, etc...

Alternatively, you could pay a programmer a fixed amount to implement an idea, this could end up being much less costly than a revenue split depending on how good the idea is.

[AppStoreGamer]

Think about it like you would look at a movie:

The screen writers get paid for the script (very little)

The production company spends millions of dollars to make, market and produce it.

The movie makes millions and the screen writer would be lucky to get half a percent of the net worth of the actual film.

Don't want to come off as being mean but you're going to have to bring more to the table if you wanna get a decent split (and I'm clearly not the only one who thinks that)

[Phi6]

A screen writer does do a lot of actual work though ;)

[AppStoreGamer]

A screen writer does do a lot of actual work though ;)

Exactly! Yet they're sill incredibly under-paid and not given enough credit....its sad what will pass for a plot these days

[nickels]

I am not a programmer, more of a graphic artist. From my perspective, programming code is not as important as creativity. Given time I'd say the majority of driven folks could learn enough to program a game. I am not dismissing the programmers and coders here, you can code to where it becomes an artwork in itself. However, given unlimited time a person will not gain creativity, it is something you either have or don't have. Just look in the app store, how many games are pure crap? Why, because lots of people can write code but not too many of them can come up with an original idea that appeals to the masses.

But like everyone here says, if you want an equal share of the money you need to do more then think of the idea. Learn to code, design, or something, otherwise your idea will just make other people money.

[NotYou]

Think about it like you would look at a movie:

The screen writers get paid for the script (very little)

The production company spends millions of dollars to make, market and produce it.

The movie makes millions and the screen writer would be lucky to get half a percent of the net worth of the actual film.

Don't want to come off as being mean but you're going to have to bring more to the table if you wanna get a decent split (and I'm clearly not the only one who thinks that)

I'm actually a screenwriter (only indie so far:() and that's not really true. Writers in the Writers Guild (remember that strike last year) should make up to %5 of the film's budget.

That mean's if a film costs $50,000,00 to make, which is pretty common for Hollywood, the writer could make $2,500,000. It's not uncommon for writers to make $1,000,000 for a final draft. That's a lot of money!

That's also why there are hoards of writers in Hollywood and nobody selling anything. Everyone is trying to win the lottery with a screenplay. Like I said before, I'm still in the indie world, which means I still need to make money by other means.

That was totally off topic. I'm done ranting now.

[Little White Bear Studios]

From my perspective, programming code is not as important as creativity.

I'll have to disagree with you here. I think they're equally important. Creativity isn't worth much without a way to execute it.

Given time I'd say the majority of driven folks could learn enough to program a game.

Depends on your definition of game. There's a reason programmers get paid a lot of money. It's hard.

[Knight]

I'll have to disagree with you here. I think they're equally important. Creativity isn't worth much without a way to execute it.



Depends on your definition of game. There's a reason programmers get paid a lot of money. It's hard.

Not only that, but programming is an art in itself. Sure anyone can program, just like anyone can open up photoshop and start drawing, but you have to know good design and structure if you want to create something as complicated as a game and do it well (ie. good performance, low memory use, no bugs, etc.)

[Little White Bear Studios]

Not only that, but programming is an art in itself. Sure anyone can program, just like anyone can open up photoshop and start drawing, but you have to know good design and structure if you want to create something as complicated as a game and do it well (ie. good performance, low memory use, no bugs, etc.)

Exactly. If done right, programming is at least 60% design, 40% coding. Generally, you don't just pick up design. It's not like, "Hey, I know for loops, and switch statements. So now I can make a game." That's equivalent to saying you can make art because you know how to use the paintbrush and select tool in Photoshop. Without design and planning, you're screwed.

[jonaswills]

Plus programmers are often making key decisions(at least in small companies) over game play aspects... even with awesome art a game won't be fun if the gameplay sucks because the physics isn't just right... in Bounce On we originally had realistic physics but found it was much more fun to "tweak" them a little :-D

[dannys95]

u wont get far like that. i TOO have an idea for a 3d game with a city enviroment. if i wanted i could team up with someone and i could build the 3d city. and do menu buttons in photoshop etc.

then someone could help with the coding.


but like u want u wont get money.

[Zandog]

I am not a programmer, more of a graphic artist. From my perspective, programming code is not as important as creativity....

I'll have to disagree with you here. I think they're equally important. Creativity isn't worth much without a way to execute it. Depends on your definition of game. There's a reason programmers get paid a lot of money. It's hard.

As a graphic designer myself I'd have to disagree, Nickels. Doing User Interface (UI) concept and design for multiple PC, and Apple Touch platform applications, games and websites. Understanding the parameters of what can be done in an app environment truly dictates how close the app will come to your design concept and whether or not you can be convincing to the programmer implementing your ideas into their ideas. I learned this the hard way for a few years, then realized why my design ideas were not being fully realized. It's funny in a way to think, normally I get the programmer coming to me to ask if I can design the concept (idea) they want as a reference. Not because they couldn't get the app done without the concept design, but because they knew from a designers point of view who understands the app idea and platform it's coming from, it would be wise to have that reference and modify it how they see fit. And do I love the modifying hour$.. Point being, if most people just looked through the window of app development, not even to have to learn it, they would have a better understanding of what can be asked and how design work could be made better.

Us graphics guys are important but I'll have to give it to the coder. A lot of my ideas would never be possible without them willing to go with an idea, sacrifice and implement.

[Spacedoggy]

GDay - I too have partnered with a coder - My background is Film TV and Sound Design (not coding) - I'll let you know how our partnership works week by week as we commence our app pre-production next month :p

Terry - Australia
http://spacedoggy.wordpress.com

[dannys95]

Question; how do u think this deal would work:

I want to make a 3D app which will be set in a 3D city. You fly around in a small toy like plane. I can make the 3D stuff; the menu buttons pretty much all the visuals; I know HTML so I can make the site; and have a plan for the game. All I need is someone to do the coding. Do you think this deal is fair / would work?

Would I make money / a good percent of the apps sale?

[Zandog]

Question; how do u think this deal would work:
I can make the 3D stuff; I know HTML so I can make the site; and have a plan for the game. All I need is someone to do the coding. Do you think this deal is fair / would work? Would I make money / a good percent of the apps sale?

I think this falls back to the original post. What you bring to the project in the way of understanding the scope and planning of your undertaking, you'd be able to generally answer these questions yourself. You can design and model? You can provide a means of presentation? You have a conceptual idea of what your project should look like given the format?

Managing a project, you face a lot of issues you have to overcome. Poor roles definition, lack of estimating and planning skills, lack of decision making skills. Project managers need to face the schedule, budget and quality constraints as well. Developers need to understand and face lack of knowledge in the application area, lack of knowledge about developing standards, lack of up to date documentations, deadline pressures, changes of application requirements, etc.This doesn't include monetary constraints, receiving products past the due date and the like.

I make it sound more complicated than it seems, but the fact is, you will run into all of this if your serious about development.

Would you make money, a good percent of the apps sale?
It depends on how much of what I mentioned you could undertake. It also depends on how many people are needed and so on. At this point, you ask, but no one can truly answer these questions but yourself.

[dannys95]

I think this falls back to the original post. What you bring to the project in the way of understanding the scope and planning of your undertaking, you'd be able to generally answer these questions yourself. You can design and model? You can provide a means of presentation? You have a conceptual idea of what your project should look like given the format?

Managing a project, you face a lot of issues you have to overcome. Poor roles definition, lack of estimating and planning skills, lack of decision making skills. Project managers need to face the schedule, budget and quality constraints as well. Developers need to understand and face lack of knowledge in the application area, lack of knowledge about developing standards, lack of up to date documentations, deadline pressures, changes of application requirements, etc.This doesn't include monetary constraints, receiving products past the due date and the like.

I make it sound more complicated than it seems, but the fact is, you will run into all of this if your serious about development.

Would you make money, a good percent of the apps sale?
It depends on how much of what I mentioned you could undertake. It also depends on how many people are needed and so on. At this point, you ask, but no one can truly answer these questions but yourself.

well this was just a question. i could do all except the website but i think a blogger site is easier. as to all the other stuff im ready. i think me and two other ppl should do. but then again this is just a question i made.

[PoV]

GTA+FPS+RTS+MMO+BBQ = $$$

:p

[20gritStudios]

well this was just a question. i could do all except the website but i think a blogger site is easier. as to all the other stuff im ready. i think me and two other ppl should do. but then again this is just a question i made.

I have to say that the right partnership should be about more than just the money. Recognition, personal development, and business relationships are just as important as the profit split. I have started pre-production on two apps for the app store with one of my friends. We threw around ideas, asked other people what they thought, and decided on two. I will be writing 99% of the code for both, building the website, and making most of the graphics. We are splitting the profits 50/50. I guess that I am just one that believes that there is more to it than money. I don't think that I will be quitting my two "real" jobs even if I was making 100% of the profits but, then again, there's just more. I know that this is America, and we want to make an ass-load of money while taking all of the credit for the work, but there are so many awesome ideas that may never be seen because of greed. Look at the economy and see how far greed has gotten us. Sorry for the rant.

[alienmeatsack]

What a lot of people don't realize is that none of the work to build an app, game, etc is easy. Having an idea means very little if you cannot flesh it out.

I know this all too well. I am an experienced graphic designer, I know a wee bit of code but most of what I know if PHP/MySQL/HTML/CSS and not really game related.

But, I am also one of the many many people who "has great ideas I'd love to see made into products". And, like many people, I just do not have the organizational skills to get my skeletons of ideas into fleshed out useful ideas.

I've tried doing mockup GUIs, fake screen shots, etc to get ideas rolling, but MAN it's a lot of work. I've got major respect for anyone who can get a cool idea up and running and out the door.

[Phi6]

What a lot of people don't realize is that none of the work to build an app, game, etc is easy. Having an idea means very little if you cannot flesh it out.

I know this all too well. I am an experienced graphic designer, I know a wee bit of code but most of what I know if PHP/MySQL/HTML/CSS and not really game related.

But, I am also one of the many many people who "has great ideas I'd love to see made into products". And, like many people, I just do not have the organizational skills to get my skeletons of ideas into fleshed out useful ideas.

I've tried doing mockup GUIs, fake screen shots, etc to get ideas rolling, but MAN it's a lot of work. I've got major respect for anyone who can get a cool idea up and running and out the door.

Nicely said from your personal experience there.
I completely agree.

[brof]

well, the split should reflect the work load of each person. If you have a fleshed out idea where you spent 5 days on it writing a design doc etc... and I would have to work 20 days to get everything implemented... well, then I would suggest a 4:1 Split for my programming/time effort. Even if it is a great idea, the execution has to be great too... and if I have to spent so much more time, then it should be reflected.

what do you think, sounds reasonable?

and also: if you as a designer think your idea is worth a 1:1 split ratio, then it should be dependend on sales....

I have no problem, if the app sales are sky rocketing, then I am OK with a 1:1 split, since the idea must have been really great....

but if the sales stay low, and the end product is not much fun... than I would like to have my time investment back...

to make it short: if we have success together, then 1:1 is OK, if there is no success, then each person should get their investments back on a appropriate work/time ratio...


cheers,
George

[morscata12]

Agreed. However if you have the ability to flesh out your idea into a solid design document, there would be tangible value to your contribution.

Agreed. In my experience, creating a thorough design document is most of the work when programming a game. However, odds are that the design will be poor if the writer isn't a programmer. Things get left out, as aspects of the planning process are learned through coding experience.

If a design document is not a possibility, coming into the project as an artist is your best bet. Your ideas would come along, but you will have to be flexible and allow the other members of your team to share their input (besides, you'll find that *one* idea won't be enough to make a solid game).