Snowball Touch

[arta]

See for yourself.
3c7xDyTJK7Q

[Big Albie]

I kind of think it looks pretty cool, and while it uses maze which is similar to Edge, I don't think it's an Edge ripoff. In fact, it has more elements similar to Sokoban and Robo.

[Oliver]

I cannot see any similarities between this and Edge.

[foolishwolf]

Similar, very similar but some of the gameplay elements aren't the same. If you could roll the snowball-guy over blocks then yeah it'd be pretty obvious it's a rip-off.

Perhaps Edge was an... inspiration?

[Fletch]

That actually looks pretty fun :) i might pick this up if it releases at a reasonable price

its not really an edge rip off imo, but i never played the full version of that game

[Mindfield]

That actually looks rather enjoyable. Didn't much remind me of edge except for the fact that it's an isometric maze you roll around in -- but the same can be said for a lot of games.

[rik555]

This game looks awesome! I can't wait for it to come out! When is it coming out? ps it's nothing like Edge!

[HouseTreeRobot]

when there are 1000's of games it's not going to be uncommon to see games that are similar in visual style, map style and control.

You never know, they have could have started this way before edge. Or maybe it was similar, edge came out, and they've used some of the bits of edge that work really well (say, holding down finger to continue movement...)

There were tons of isometric cube based games before edge :)

[Fletch]

when there are 1000's of games it's not going to be uncommon to see games that are similar in visual style, map style and control.

You never know, they have could have started this way before edge. Or maybe it was similar, edge came out, and they've used some of the bits of edge that work really well (say, holding down finger to continue movement...)

There were tons of isometric cube based games before edge :)
I looked on the devs website, and it says he started the game nearly a year ago, before the app store even opened, but ran into various hindrances that greatly slowed production...I'm guessing that is long before edge development began

For those interested, the website is buzzabit.com

[BrettArchibald]

Absolutely nothing like Edge whatsoever. But it does look it could be an awesome game when it's released! Nice find. :)

[aaronsullivan]

Hi, I'm the developer of Snowball Touch. :)

The game as it stands is a direct "rip-off" of Snowball, a game I made for uDevGames 2004 (http://www.udevgames.com/games/entry/snowball/).

That was meant to be a 3D game derivative of games like Adventures of Lolo on the DS. Because of time constraints a whole bunch of stuff I had planned didn't make it in, so it was a LOT closer to something like a 3D sokoban with a couple of small twists involving the nature of the snowball. (I also chose to make it to double as a tech experiment for an isometric rpg that I never made.)

I'm in a bit of agony as my time to develop has been greatly constrained over the last several months and this game was getting so close to completion. I am working on it though and God willing it will get done within the next few months.

Edge (which is pretty cool) was one of those games that gave me a sinking feeling in my gut when it was released. I was originally planning to release this game along the initial waves of releases. You can see my comments despairing a bit over another similar puzzle iPhone game which is much closer to this one in some ways.

Anyway, it is what it is, and I'm excited to get it out there. Now, I'm going to go back and read this thread a bit more closely. Be right back.

[Big Albie]

Hi, I'm the developer of Snowball Touch. :)

The game as it stands is a direct "rip-off" of Snowball, a game I made for uDevGames 2004 (http://www.udevgames.com/games/entry/snowball/).

That was meant to be a 3D game derivative of games like Adventures of Lolo on the DS. Because of time constraints a whole bunch of stuff I had planned didn't make it in, so it was a LOT closer to something like a 3D sokoban with a couple of small twists involving the nature of the snowball. (I also chose to make it to double as a tech experiment for an isometric rpg that I never made.)

I'm in a bit of agony as my time to develop has been greatly constrained over the last several months and this game was getting so close to completion. I am working on it though and God willing it will get done within the next few months.

Edge (which is pretty cool) was one of those games that gave me a sinking feeling in my gut when it was released. I was originally planning to release this game along the initial waves of releases. You can see my comments despairing a bit over another similar puzzle iPhone game which is much closer to this one in some ways.

Anyway, it is what it is, and I'm excited to get it out there. Now, I'm going to go back and read this thread a bit more closely. Be right back.

Welcome to forum! From the thread, I'm sure you can tell everyone is excited based on what we've seen so far. I for one don't think this is an Edge ripoff at all. Like I said, I think this game has more in common with sokoban and Robo because of the stronger puzzler component.

[No Hero]

Yea, not that similar to Edge

[aaronsullivan]

I think Edge is pretty cool. Let me give an idea about the differences.

As one poster pointed out, the ability to roll up a single cube wall is not in the snowball's repertoire but from my brief experience with Edge, the feel of the games is very different.

Edge is more of an action-oriented puzzler. Very quickly, timing becomes more important than strategy/problem solving. That's a great thrill and can be frustrating, but that's what it is supposed to be.

Snowball reserves tight timing stages for some of the later optional stuff as an extra challenge for the hardcore players. At least that's the intention at this time. The challenge in Snowball is more problem solving and it can get quite complex.

To differentiate from another similar puzzle game, Bobby Carrot, I'll say that Snowball likes to use less types of objects with multiple uses rather than many items that each do only one thing. I'm not knocking Bobby Carrot, btw. I imagine that people who are fans of these types of games would enjoy them all. There's hardly any overlap.

My mind likes the 3D puzzles and the stuff that looks simple, but isn't. I like discovery and nuance when I play my games and I try to put that in this game as well. Testing will tell me how much I need to show people how to play, but I love to let the player explore and try things out until they can discover a solution. It gives them a chance to "own it" and give that much more immersion.

Just rambling a bit now.

I just want to say that I'm excited to see my game discovered on the Touch Arcade forum as the site is my haunt for all iPhone game info. As far as the forum goes, though, I must admit I haven't done much but lurk around before today. Thanks to BrettArchibald and Fletch for pointing it out while visiting my blog post on the game.

Go ahead and talk to me about price and what you might expect from a game like this. How many stages, what features you'd expect. I'll listen and respond on here as much as possible. Influence me. :D

[Fletch]

Snowball reserves tight timing stages for some of the later optional stuff as an extra challenge for the hardcore players. At least that's the intention at this time. The challenge in Snowball is more problem solving and it can get quite complex.

...

Go ahead and talk to me about price and what you might expect from a game like this. How many stages, what features you'd expect. I'll listen and respond on here as much as possible. Influence me. :D

glad to see you made it here!

everything iv'e seen from the game looks great, i really like the puzzle elements implemented so far, and the focus on strategy rather than speed like edge. That said, a timed mode would make a nice addition once the player gets a handle for the game i would think.

as for number of levels and price, they really are dependent on one another...more levels = higher price and vice versa :) how many do you have planned so far?

[Rad]

The Game looks Great, what will the introductory price be?

[Fletch]

The Game looks Great, what will the introductory price be?
Did you read the devs posts? He hasn't decided on a price, but is open to input if you have any.

[aaronsullivan]

... a timed mode would make a nice addition once the player gets a handle for the game i would think.

as for number of levels and price, they really are dependent on one another...more levels = higher price and vice versa :) how many do you have planned so far?

Yes, I'll be keeping track of time for each stage and time overall. On top of that I plan to keep track of actions taken (how many moves did it take you) for each stage.

As far as price and stages go... some rough ideas might be to have about 25 per section if I do little inexpensive sections. So, one plot device would give about 25. That's a really rough figure and would be balanced out higher or lower based on the difficulty of the stages involved.

For instance, if there are 3 or 4 really time consuming stages, there might be less. Doubt I could get away with that marketing-wise though. lol. Probably would have to pad that with some smaller simpler stages to make the numbers look even.

As it is, I have 3 "story" sections planned that could be divided into the smaller games or 1 game and 2 "add-ons" once iPhone OS 3.0 comes out. The stories are very basic premises though, don't expect something with too much depth. I love story and I do some screenwriting on the side, but it's just not in the cards for this game at this time.

The cutscene engine is what I'm working on right now. Made an editor, it's in the game, but it's all pretty rudimentary; layered images that can move around. :)

As far as price questions go: I had lofty goals of a big $8 game at the start of this project, but after a year, I just want the thing to get out there and get me enough money to scale back on my "real paying job" so that I can work on games/movies a far greater percentage of my time. I'm also very aware of the iPhone App market, so it's going to be on the much lower pricing end and in smaller parts.

I'm not going specific in order to reserve my right to simply price it exactly where it I think it should be at the time of release. It's still a couple months out AT BEST. :D

Frankly: At this time, I can't quite offer all the features and polish I really want to, anyway, as it's down to just me working on it with limited time. With a little success that would change dramatically for future projects.

[darwiniandude]

Great game: I will buy this, as long as the price is even remotely fair. Well done. I have all the similar games, and I think this adds something unique. It is nothing like Edge at all IMO. (Love edge though)

I'd suggest that as in app purchasing is coming in version 3, unless you're planning to bring to market prior, that you consider making the game cheap ($1.99 for example) with a small level selection, maybe 12 or 25 whatver you see fit, and have $1.99 or $0.99 level packs, or make the game $3.99 with $1.99 packs and so on. Up to you really, but the in app purchasing looks like it will let devs release a cheap game everyone can pick up, and buy the levels for to keep playing if they really get into it. Also lets you improve the game with free updates, but add content that you'll get paid for. Another option is a user level editor. I know in the C64 games, the ones with the editors always kept my attention longest :)

[Chumbake]

The game looks great. Thanks for all the info. Unfortunately for me, I just plain suck at puzzle games. The only levels I could pass would be the ones you showed in the video...which I think was only the first one.


Great addition of adding eyes to the ball. Many developers don't add any character to their heros and it takes away from the game. You're addition of eyes popping out when the ball stops is great.

[aaronsullivan]

@darwiniandude
All reasonable suggestions. :)

The editor is something I'd plan for a later version. It's great in that it gives a game a longevity outside of my direct control. It may end up as a browser based app, as using a mouse and keyboard is much nicer for editors. That's a far forward looking plan though. For now, I want to focus on carefully designed stages and a satisfying difficulty curve for all of them.

@Chumbake
Speaking of difficulty curve, maybe you just haven't found the right puzzle game yet. :) Maybe mine will be it.

One nice feature is that there is no artificial limit on chances or penalties involving a 5 or 10 stage backtrack. Instead, when you fail you are right back on the same stage to give it another go with no delays. (I thought it was a novel idea back in 2004 for the original snowball game, but it's actually pretty common now.)

In the end these games aren't everyone's cup of tea (even tea isn't everyone's cup of tea.) I'm convinced though, that there are many who would enjoy this type of game if they gave it a chance. I've had good success sharing this early version with non-gamers who got hooked pretty solidly.

[rik555]

@darwiniandude
All reasonable suggestions. :)

The editor is something I'd plan for a later version. It's great in that it gives a game a longevity outside of my direct control. It may end up as a browser based app, as using a mouse and keyboard is much nicer for editors. That's a far forward looking plan though. For now, I want to focus on carefully designed stages and a satisfying difficulty curve for all of them.

@Chumbake
Speaking of difficulty curve, maybe you just haven't found the right puzzle game yet. :) Maybe mine will be it.

One nice feature is that there is no artificial limit on chances or penalties involving a 5 or 10 stage backtrack. Instead, when you fail you are right back on the same stage to give it another go with no delays. (I thought it was a novel idea back in 2004 for the original snowball game, but it's actually pretty common now.)

In the end these games aren't everyone's cup of tea (even tea isn't everyone's cup of tea.) I'm convinced though, that there are many who would enjoy this type of game if they gave it a chance. I've had good success sharing this early version with non-gamers who got hooked pretty solidly.

well this is def.. MY cup of tea!!! Can't wait!

[Fletch]

I was gone all weekend so just recently read your posts...

Yes, I'll be keeping track of time for each stage and time overall. On top of that I plan to keep track of actions taken (how many moves did it take you) for each stage.

move count and timing sound like nice additions :) maybe the game could show the minimum number of moves possible to beat a level? so there would be incentive to go back after completing the first time

Frankly: At this time, I can't quite offer all the features and polish I really want to, anyway, as it's down to just me working on it with limited time. With a little success that would change dramatically for future projects.

I would suggest getting the game out there at a cheap introductory price, make some sales, get feedback, and then add some polish and some "level pack" updates...just an idea

It's still a couple months out AT BEST.

i'm hoping for the best :D

good luck to ya,

~Fletch

[arta]

So any word?

Edit: oh just saw you've got a newborn kid. Congrats!
Mods, can you edit out the "Edge ripoff" from the thread title?

[anduril_ukr]

ooh, forgot about this one. hope the dev. chose to go quality and not hurry it out. still looks great.

[DaveMc99]

So any word?

Edit: oh just saw you've got a newborn kid. Congrats!
Mods, can you edit out the "Edge ripoff" from the thread title?

Edge has been removed from the US store.. might be the same reason this game is not out.

[treehuggerflem]

Wow awesome and informative video. Looks like a really superb puzzler.

[aaronsullivan]

Hi all. I've got a little update here for you. Nothing about release dates or anything, but getting closer.

As someone noticed from my little work blog, yes, I had a little baby boy! He came 4 1/2 weeks early so everything got interrupted big time, but all for a good cause. :D

Here's the link to the blog for a progress update:
http://www.buzzabit.com/aaron/2009/06/12/snowball-touch-progress/

Edge has been removed from the US store.. might be the same reason this game is not out.
Just for clarity: I have no knowledge of this, or what the reason might be. I don't think there is anything related to this game that would cause any problems and I haven't tried to release my game, yet. It's not done. :)

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone!

(BTW, I didn't have email notification on before, so sorry I didn't reply a bit faster to some of these comments. It's on now. :) )

[goldglover411]

this game looks very interesting...i never picked up edge but i will certanly give this game a shot

[arta]

Hi all. I've got a little update here for you. Nothing about release dates or anything, but getting closer.

As someone noticed from my little work blog, yes, I had a little baby boy! He came 4 1/2 weeks early so everything got interrupted big time, but all for a good cause. :D
Congrats!

[Fletch]

Hi all. I've got a little update here for you. Nothing about release dates or anything, but getting closer.

As someone noticed from my little work blog, yes, I had a little baby boy! He came 4 1/2 weeks early so everything got interrupted big time, but all for a good cause. :D

Here's the link to the blog for a progress update:
http://www.buzzabit.com/aaron/2009/06/12/snowball-touch-progress/


Just for clarity: I have no knowledge of this, or what the reason might be. I don't think there is anything related to this game that would cause any problems and I haven't tried to release my game, yet. It's not done. :)

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone!

(BTW, I didn't have email notification on before, so sorry I didn't reply a bit faster to some of these comments. It's on now. :) )
Congrats on the baby boy :)

...and thanks for the update. I am still eagerly awaiting this title.

[S.I.D. CrAzY]

Hi all. I've got a little update here for you. Nothing about release dates or anything, but getting closer.

As someone noticed from my little work blog, yes, I had a little baby boy! He came 4 1/2 weeks early so everything got interrupted big time, but all for a good cause. :D

Here's the link to the blog for a progress update:
http://www.buzzabit.com/aaron/2009/06/12/snowball-touch-progress/


Just for clarity: I have no knowledge of this, or what the reason might be. I don't think there is anything related to this game that would cause any problems and I haven't tried to release my game, yet. It's not done. :)

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone!

(BTW, I didn't have email notification on before, so sorry I didn't reply a bit faster to some of these comments. It's on now. :) )

Congratulations, I know the feeling, I have a 4 month old myself :D

Edit: Oh and yeah, can't wait for the game to come out. Got caught up in the baby news :p

[Rad]

Note from the Blog "I am contemplating the possibility of in-game purchasing of stages."

How much up front disclosure does a developer have to make on the I-tunes store concerning in store purchase or upgrades?

What is the minimum value of a add on, can it be less than .99?

Is it a requirement for the program to ask for the users password or to ask are you sure you want to purchase this upgrade.

I can see a developer placing a buy button in a place where the user might push it by accident. Just like some of the placements of the ads where you tap on them while playing a game by accident.

Developers need to provide true value versus nickel and dimeing; other wise the reviews for the app will show it.

I see the possibility of so much abuse that users like me may just move to the android phone over the frustration of a developer shipping an unfinished game and making the user pay for bug fixesand.99cents per level gouging versus a true expansion pack.

[sn0wned]

This game looks fun. One thing you could add is achievements maybe? It would increase the replayability of Snowball Touch for sure.

[aaronsullivan]

Thanks for the kind words about the baby, all. :D He's a joy and we're thrilled with having a second child, but it's taxing to say the least! And S.I.D. Crazy, congrats to you, things change so fast at that age, right when you figure something out -- it's not the same anymore. lol.

I'll do my best to keep you guys posted here. I'm anxious to get this out there while still making it as great as I can.

Thanks for commenting on the in-store purchases Rad, I really want as much feedback as possible on this.

I think we are still under NDA on the details of the Beta, including in-app purchases, but I'll say that Apple seems like too smart a company to allow devs to use their system in a sneaky get-the-user-to-press-the-buy-button-by-accident type of way. For my part, I know that it would be instant marketplace suicide for my games and business if I tried to pull such a thing off and I'm not in this for a one-shot money grab. I enjoy this stuff and would rather devote much more time to it.

sn0wned, I think achievements are a pretty good addition, but I don't think I'll have something in the first release. I'll give that some extra thought, though. I'm just trying to think of what would be fun achievements for this particular game.

[Fletch]

Thanks for the kind words about the baby, all. :D He's a joy and we're thrilled with having a second child, but it's taxing to say the least! And S.I.D. Crazy, congrats to you, things change so fast at that age, right when you figure something out -- it's not the same anymore. lol.

I'll do my best to keep you guys posted here. I'm anxious to get this out there while still making it as great as I can.

Thanks for commenting on the in-store purchases Rad, I really want as much feedback as possible on this.

I think we are still under NDA on the details of the Beta, including in-app purchases, but I'll say that Apple seems like too smart a company to allow devs to use their system in a sneaky get-the-user-to-press-the-buy-button-by-accident type of way. For my part, I know that it would be instant marketplace suicide for my games and business if I tried to pull such a thing off and I'm not in this for a one-shot money grab. I enjoy this stuff and would rather devote much more time to it.

sn0wned (hmm, trying to grok that name), I think achievements are a pretty good addition, but I don't think I'll have something in the first release. I'll give that some extra thought, though. I'm just trying to think of what would be fun achievements for this particular game.
I think that in app purchases would be fine for this game, as long as they contain a legitimate amount of new levels. Maybe each "expansion pack" could even have a new background theme, or come with a new character as well.

[aaronsullivan]

@Fletch
I agree with you. Just adding more of the same, but rearranged is not enough. Though some value certainly comes from super-tricky stages.

The additional stages, whether as a separate app or as an in-app purchase, are intended to add new dimensions to the play. For instance, the penguins and spiders may make only a brief appearance in the first game (and I haven't shown everything, yet.)

I have a 3-part simple story planned that divides the features into 3 parts with a decent little finale in mind. The second two sections would introduce new head-scratching features along with greater and greater difficulty as well.

This is a diversion from my somewhat naive pre-app store plan that saw all this in one (more expensive) game. The good news is that when my wife and I were analyzing all the play mechanics players need to learn to solve the puzzles we had a deeper game than I had first thought. So, dividing it into three games will still mean a good number of unique stages in each and I believe it will be a better value for players, to boot. :D

[Fletch]

@Fletch
I agree with you. Just adding more of the same, but rearranged is not enough. Though some value certainly comes from super-tricky stages.

The additional stages, whether as a separate app or as an in-app purchase, are intended to add new dimensions to the play. For instance, the penguins and spiders may make only a brief appearance in the first game (and I haven't shown everything, yet.)

I have a 3-part simple story planned that divides the features into 3 parts with a decent little finale in mind. The second two sections would introduce new head-scratching features along with greater and greater difficulty as well.

This is a diversion from my somewhat naive pre-app store plan that saw all this in one (more expensive) game. The good news is that when my wife and I were analyzing all the play mechanics players need to learn to solve the puzzles we had a deeper game than I had first thought. So, dividing it into three games will still mean a good number of unique stages in each and I believe it will be a better value for players, to boot. :D
That sounds like a solid way to break it up. It will probably lead to a good marketing strategy as well, as each part of the story could just be say $.99 cents, or something cheap. Then people will purchase the first part, get hooked, and end up buying the other two or three, when they never would have initially considered buying the game at $2.99 or $3.99, if ya know what I mean...

[aaronsullivan]

Fletch... am I sensing a Jedi Mind Trick? ;)

Fletch says, "You want to release this game at 99 cents." (waves his fingers subtly.)

Aaron says, "I want to release -- Hey, what's going on here?"

:D

Full disclosure for my current ever-changing thinking: I intend to release a fun little free "lite" edition at the same time as the full version. I intend to price the full version at higher than 99 cents, yet still on the lower-end of pricing.

Of course, it's too early to decide anything as the final set of stages is not finished and I don't really know exactly what I have yet.

BTW, do you guys like the idea of the lite version having different stages than the full version? It would have similar aspects to learn, but alternate stages.

[Fletch]

Fletch... am I sensing a Jedi Mind Trick? ;)

Fletch says, "You want to release this game at 99 cents." (waves his fingers subtly.)

Aaron says, "I want to release -- Hey, what's going on here?"

:D

Full disclosure for my current ever-changing thinking: I intend to release a fun little free "lite" edition at the same time as the full version. I intend to price the full version at higher than 99 cents, yet still on the lower-end of pricing.

Of course, it's too early to decide anything as the final set of stages is not finished and I don't really know exactly what I have yet.

BTW, do you guys like the idea of the lite version having different stages than the full version? It would have similar aspects to learn, but alternate stages.
lol, I wish I was a Jedi :D

I've already decided that I'm going to buy this game basically whatever the price is...so it doesn't really matter to me...:)

I don't really know how much content your game is gonna offer, so I was just guestimating at $.99...in retrospect, I think you could probably charge more, but given the current app store pricing structure, I don't think you want to go too much higher, no matter the quality/quantity of gameplay...but whatever, this stuff is up to you :) no sense in worrying about it too far ahead anyways...

[aaronsullivan]

Date and price are the last things to decide, that's for sure. :)

@Fletch
Knowing that you'll pay any price is VERY useful. Maybe I'll institute a one day price of $19.99 :eek: ;)

@Everyone
I hesitate saying anything about price (even absurd jokes like above) because I know it can bristle people, I do have a little value question, though:
What kind of value does a system like OpenFeint (with achievements, leaderboards, chat) add to a game?

More specifically, what would OpenFeint integration in Snowball Touch do to your interest and perceived value? I'm most interested in opinions from those who have used games that integrate OpenFeint or something like it.

[VeganTnT]

I've never been that interested in OpenFeint so it wouldn't add value for me. It's not bad but I rarely use it as I don't care much for chatting when I'm playing a game.

Depending on how the Plus+ system that ngmoco is releasing with Star Defense works out I might find more value in that.

[aaronsullivan]

I just noticed that OpenFeint (very)recently made a significant upgrade, so maybe we aren't talking about the same thing, yet. :) So, I guess the perception is that it's pretty weak until people realize the new features. :/
Here's the site link, so people can check it out:
http://www.openfeint.com/

It's not just about chatting while playing (though I like the support benefits to that on some of the tougher stages) it's now easy to link up with friends using your facebook or twitter account, integrated achievements, leaderboards amongst friends not just worldwide, plus it can post onto facebook or twitter if the player turns it on. I'm finding it very impressive, actually, and I'm not sure what the plus+ system would do differently.

Would that add value?

[Mindfield]

To be honest I've never been particularly interested in social gaming unless there is a significant benefit to doing so. Merely having "friends' in a game for whatever reason has never factored into any decision to play a game, as most of the time I'm more interested in playing it on my own terms than waiting for someone else. To me, the only time when a social gaming feature makes any sense is with online multiplayer games. Otherwise I can take it or leave it, but I'm not interested if it adds anything to the cost.

With regard to in-game DLC, I'd only be at all interested if it was used for expansion packs -- that is, the game itself should be full and complete to the same degree it would have been without DLC. I'm not interested in buying a game only to find out it's missing stuff I have to purchase. Furthermore, the expansion packs should contain enough content to warrant the asking price. 10 new levels for $0.99 in a game that has, say, 50 for $2.99 doesn't really cut it. If anything, the expansion packs would have to have greater value in order to push people over the edge using the DLC system, being that it's new and people are probably going to be a little nervous about using it for the first time.

Just my two cents anyway. I'm interested in seeing what this game will ultimately be like when it's out.

[BrettArchibald]

What kind of value does a system like OpenFeint (with achievements, leaderboards, chat) add to a game?

It's not just about chatting while playing (though I like the support benefits to that on some of the tougher stages) it's now easy to link up with friends using your facebook or twitter account, integrated achievements, leaderboards amongst friends not just worldwide, plus it can post onto facebook or twitter if the player turns it on. I'm finding it very impressive, actually, and I'm not sure what the plus+ system would do differently.

Would that add value?

Leaderboards, especially showing friends = very interested.
Achievements & Facebook/Twitter support = will use 'em if they're there, otherwise, not fussed.
Chat = absolutely no interest whatsoever.

[super6ft7]

yes because EDGE was 100% new and original

[Fletch]

yes because EDGE was 100% new and original
Dude, this game is nothing like edge, did you watch the video?

And as for open feint...The only part I would find useful would be online leaderboards. Chatting on the iDevice is laborious, and not very much fun. So I would say it would add some value, but not too much.

[aaronsullivan]

Thanks for the great replies.

@Mindfield
As far as the friends thing goes, it would be for comparing scores/progress before and after playing. There would be no waiting for a friend or multiplayer in Snowball Touch.

I mostly agree with your comments on DLC. Your last example is a little hard for me to understand because my alternative is to release standalone games. You're saying it should cost less for the same amount of work because it's in-game (untrustworthy?) buying and not the less convenient in-store buying? Just trying to understand.

@BrettArchibald (& Fletch)
I believe the chat function ends up behaving more like a forum. For instance, every game gets a tips and tricks chat. You could flip over to it and say, "I'm stuck on stage 23 and I'm going insane what am I missing? How do I get around the penguin?"

To me, this is what that feature could add to Snowball. I agree that chatting with friends during a game is not usually useful.

Also, I'm most interested in the friend leaderboards. Worldwide leaderboards are only interesting to the most hardcore players, but one-upping your friends is fun. :) Plus, from a developer perspective, friends are the people most likely to suggest a good game to you and this makes it a bit easier.

Edit: There was some cross-posting, just want to add that I think there was some sarcasm going on two posts above. I guess I could be wrong. :) Maybe I need to start a new thread without that title. :confused:

@everyone
I seem to be more excited by it than others here. :) Another nice aspect I enjoy is that I could go on and visit as the developer and make comments and announcements and challenges and have a little fun on a chat and interface that I think would be MUCH more populated than any personal forum I could create/support for the game with my limited resources. It does cost me money though, so I'm still considering.

[VeganTnT]

The Plus+ system that ngmoco has made is like a xbox live gamertag.

You can have a profile and there are achiements, challenges etc.

I beta tested all the Aurora Feint games including the OpenFeint System. While I like it I'm not a fan of the current implementation.

OF 2.0 looks amazing though

Honestly as a dev I would leave it out and see what the reaction is to Plus+ (in the new Star Defense update for 3.0) or for OF 2.0 once it starts being added to the current OF games.

[dannys95]

Not a Edge ripoff at all. Just joined into the conversation. Any ETA?

[aaronsullivan]

Sorry, no ETA yet. It's just me coding and doing artwork right now, so progress is a bit sporadic, but it's getting very close. How's that for vague. :D

You can check out my work blog (link in sig) (http://www.buzzabit.com/aaron) and these boards for progress.

So... about plus+. I'm a bit nonplussed by it. (har har.) I looked up OpenFeint today to see progress and within a couple seconds, I'm signed up and have an account and am trying it out with a sample app. Nice. It works, it's simple. In contrast, I have yet to find any official info on plus+ except in news stories. So it has the press, but... seems like anyone outside the ngmoco : ( umbrella is out of luck for now.

Maybe they are testing it out before the open it up, but... it just doesn't seem very inviting right now. I can't even find a comprehensive list of features or a roll out date for other developers. I've seen quotes that suggest it's not going to proprietary.

If I was releasing sometime this week, I'd probably be integrating OpenFeint. Fortunately, I have a bit of room to see what happens. Let me know what you guys think as you start playing with some of this stuff.

Edit: Oh, and on the next significant progress update to Snowball Touch I'll start a new thread so we can leave the Edge debate behind. :)

[aaronsullivan]

BTW, the social networking discussion here is probably better discussed at this other Touch Arcade thread:
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=16161

[Fletch]

Edit: Oh, and on the next significant progress update to Snowball Touch I'll start a new thread so we can leave the Edge debate behind. :)

I got the thread name changed, so don't worry about it :)

[rik555]

so can we get an update? when is the game gonna be out?

[aaronsullivan]

Today, your wish is my command, rik555. :)

I was sitting down to do some work on the game and I saw your post. I've been meaning to post something since I did get some considerable work done a little while back.

Here's my dev blog link to see the details:
http://www.buzzabit.com/aaron/
You can RSS that, too, if you want.
http://www.buzzabit.com/aaron/feed/

Aside: I really need to do a little revamping of that site. The rss link is hidden at the bottom, the comments link says "No Comments" which almost sounds like a warning not to comment. lol. Edit: Now I'm updating the site a bit.

Anyway, the short version is that basic stat tracking is implemented now and there are little short victory animations at the end of stages. Almost every glitch is fixed and there are just a few sound effects to put in.

The major work that is left is a more finished intro animation, a final end animation, and the stages themselves -- my wife should be able to help more with the stages part more now. :)

So, there is considerable work left, but I'm on that final stretch now and it's much easier to get something done in small time slots -- coding typically works best with large amounts of time available, but coding is mostly DONE.

I'll check for comments here and on my blog, but I AM working on it right now. :D

[grathina2000]

Hello Everybody I've just joined TouchArcade (best ipod/iphone forum out!!!) and decided to add my 2cents worth straight off the bat.

First off aaronsullivan: Well Done!

As one of my favourite quotes goes "Excellence can be obtained if you dream more than others think is practicle"

The game looks pretty fun. Looks like you have a good idea in terms of using the touch interface by moving "snowball?" along by either moving your finger or keeping it pressed in the direction you want him/her? (come to think of it may be a good idea to let gamers choose either male or female snowball..?..just a suggestion) to move snowball.
I also like the fact that the levels are not too large. I find this can be very irritating especially if you have to keep moving the camera to see where to go or what to do..many times I've found myself falling off a cliff/road/track/ledge cause I have no idea where the cliff/road/track/ledge goes. With your design it looks at least to have solved the problem I have.

I haven't heard the music you'll be using in the game itself..hopefully its catchy.

I'll look forward to trying it out(reasonable introductory price of course :-) )

Good luck!

[aaronsullivan]

First off aaronsullivan: Well Done!
Thanks!
...it may be a good idea to let gamers choose either male or female snowball..?..just a suggestion)
I won't be letting players choose his gender for practical reasons. It means twice as many animations, for instance. :) I always like to think that I'm rolling this little thing around, so the player can be the hero no matter what the gender of the little snowball is.

He'll probably come off as a guy just because I imagined him that way first. I'm all for female leads in games though. I've got a little girl and she sometimes relates to the damsels in distress in games. I hate that. For balance I should mention that we sword fight and she chops me into pieces. (NERF swords are excellent. Just be careful. :D)
I also like the fact that the levels are not too large.
While some stages are large enough that you'll have to look around and you'll always have to be careful and aware of every step you take, I'm trying to avoid the walking/waiting aspect to some of these types of games. If the stages are tight enough, you are mostly pausing because you are concentrating very hard on what to do next. Once you decide, you are only a few steps away from the action you want to take.
I haven't heard the music you'll be using in the game itself..hopefully its catchy.
If you listen to the background music of the youtube video: that is the main track. It's hard to hear with all my blabbing over it, but I find it pretty catchy myself. My brother Sean composed and played it. He's working on a bit more for me, but he doesn't have a lot of time. If the first game is successful, hopefully I can convince him to spend much more time with me on adding some great new stuff.
I'll look forward to trying it out(reasonable introductory price of course :-) ) Good luck!
Thanks.

[grathina2000]

Thanks for the reply to my questions.
Hope it gets approved soon..!!..I'm keeping my eye on this one.!!

[rik555]

Thanks for the reply to my questions.
Hope it gets approved soon..!!..I'm keeping my eye on this one.!!

when will this game be out??? I want snowball touch!

[aaronsullivan]

Just wanted to say that it has NOT been sent in for approval yet and it's not finished. (I thought grathina2000's post might suggest to some that it was up for approval.)

There has been progress, of course. I did a major code refactor on the player movement code to make it less convoluted and easier to fix and add on to. There was this one glitch that was showing me how bad it was so I hunkered down and really rewrote a ton of code. In the process, I discovered and eliminated a crashing bug, too.

Also, all the sound effects are finalized and that is quite satisfying. I'm very happy with most of them.

I'm a little disheartened by how little I've been able to work on it. Especially after I've gotten SO close, now! Thanks to all those still hanging in there. I never imagined I wouldn't be done by now. It's just regular life stuff that keeps me from it.

If it's any consolation, I'll be working on it all day tomorrow! If I make significant progress, I'll post about it on my blog page.

If you need some puzzley games to play, I recommend the Grow series of flash games at www.eyezmaze.com. Those have been around for awhile, but I just discovered them. The cube one is my favorite, so far.

[Fletch]

Keep up the good work!

I patiently (sorta :)) await its submission

[MartiNZ]

Still looking forward to this one eh.

[aaronsullivan]

Thanks for keeping the faith, MartiNZ! and Fletch, too.

My time is torn between my family with the newborn addition, my work, and my game development. It's an even fight between the extra class I'm teaching at work and this game that is getting SO close to done I can taste it (and the little guy who is so stinkin' adorable!)

Did you guys see that I added visual outlines to the stages? (http://www.buzzabit.com/aaron/2009/10/10/buffing-the-edges-of-the-snowball-game/) It's to help with clarity about where ledges are.

I really appreciate my three or four dedicated fans! :D

[exalep]

I've followed this thread for a while but never posted. Just wanted to say that it looks good, and I'll buy it right when it comes into the store ;p

[Frog]

After being very busy for a while I'm now looking through the forum once more and I saw this game. It looks really nice, quite much like edge, but I think it's different enough. Any idea what the price will be?

[aaronsullivan]

@exalep
Thanks for chiming in. Every little bit of good news helps!

@Frog (exalep, too)
The perspective of my game is like (the very cool) Edge, but the pace of my game is not an arcade action pace. It's more cerebral and has fun little characters in it rather than cubes. :D

As far as price goes, I'm going to offer it at $39.99 on the first day because exalep has promised to buy it the first day -- I would NEVER under any circumstances do that! After that I'm going to offer it at a price that fits the market at the time.

Sorry I'm not giving people a better idea about price, but there really is no point in promising anything as the tumult in the market is so dramatic right now and things may be very different by the time I release.

Let's just say I'm a pragmatist when it comes to price. I won't be trying to make a statement, I'll be trying to make a hit. ;)

[MartiNZ]

Cool, I'm sure it will be worth the wait. Deal with LIFE first, by all means :), and the extra time can only make things more thought out and polished!

[Frog]

@exalep
Thanks for chiming in. Every little bit of good news helps!

@Frog (exalep, too)
The perspective of my game is like (the very cool) Edge, but the pace of my game is not an arcade action pace. It's more cerebral and has fun little characters in it rather than cubes. :D

As far as price goes, I'm going to offer it at $39.99 on the first day because exalep has promised to buy it the first day -- I would NEVER under any circumstances do that! After that I'm going to offer it at a price that fits the market at the time.

Sorry I'm not giving people a better idea about price, but there really is no point in promising anything as the tumult in the market is so dramatic right now and things may be very different by the time I release.

Let's just say I'm a pragmatist when it comes to price. I won't be trying to make a statement, I'll be trying to make a hit. ;)

I understand that you don't want to say more about the price. Good luck with programming!

[goldglover411]

This has been on my watch list for awhile...i just wanted to know if there has been a submission date set yet and if not, i would like a relative idea of when it will be submitted. Hopefully it will be out before 2010 because im not sure if i can wait any longer

[MartiNZ]

This has been on my watch list for awhile...i just wanted to know if there has been a submission date set yet and if not, i would like a relative idea of when it will be submitted. Hopefully it will be out before 2010 because im not sure if i can wait any longer

I've a feeling you might have to wait longer at this point.

[MartiNZ]

I've a feeling you might have to wait longer at this point.

I was right :(. Any advance? It seems like the time to ask again.