Noteworthy article regarding Free-to-Play

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Gabrien, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. Piph

    Piph Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2012
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  2. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

    Jun 16, 2009
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    This is the best article I've ever read on free-to-play gaming. I feel exactly the same way, but it can be difficult getting your concerns across without sounding like you're just looking for something to moan about instead of ignoring it. The problem is that the whole thing is getting more and more difficult to ignore as it begins to invade (and destroy) games which originally would have had no part of such a scheme. When I complain about a F2P game, I know I could just go and play something else, but it's not actually that particular game I'm concerned about, it's what it means for the future of gaming as a whole.

    One person writing a bitchy comment on an article might not be enough to change anything, but a lot of people repeatedly expressing their concerns is exactly what's needed to let developers know there's still a market for premium games. It might not be the biggest market anymore, but it exists, there are still profits to be made, and to any developer who considers actual gameplay to be the most important aspect of a game, it's the best one there is.
     
  3. lena

    lena Well-Known Member

    Mar 26, 2011
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    From the article:
    :)

    I agree with everything MidianGTX says. There's still a market for real games. Like the article says: Tomb Raider and Hitman Absolution sold more than 3 million copies each, but Square Enix considers them failures. How can people rationalize the move to free to play with "nobody buys games anymore so developers have to go freemium" when you see these kinds of numbers? I understand the market used to be different, but still, 3 million copies sold is nothing to sneeze at.
     
  4. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
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    Only a few can sell that number, those that don't perhaps sell 1% of that number and this fact usually makes things unsustainable.

    The sad fact of life is that if there really was a viable market for premium games on mobile, developers woudn't be switching away from it - ALL other models are far more complicated and can often break a game. But making a great title and then closing your company doesn't really appeal to anyone either.

    Looking at our own earnings and the chart position from our highest earning premium game, it's clear that there's room for about 100 games on iOS to make a profit worth aiming for. We're behind that line, as are 99% of other developers.

    Most are trying freemium to stay alive. Most will fail there too. In a year or two there will be few freemium games and very few second games from premium developers brassing it out.

    Sorry that's a bit bleak, I'm afraid the business realities are nowhere near where the punters seem to think they are. I blame angry birds and one or two other breakout hits. The average iOS game lifetime earnings is $17.
     
  5. JBRUU

    JBRUU Well-Known Member

    May 9, 2012
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    If the future is so beak, if no one can make a profit from paid games, why did the four brothers at Foursaken just create and release two smash hits? Why did Josh release Ravensword with no IAP? Why did The Room do so well? Why did Telltale release a Walking Dead port, why is Rockstar continuing to develop iOS ports, why did Supergiant port Bastion? Why was MC4 premium? Why was NFS premium?

    I have nowhere near the knowledge and experience in the iOS market as you, but I do see some of these examples and wonder if you aren't just being a little too pessimistic.

    As for the article, it's cool and spot on and all, but probably won't change a thing.
     
  6. Bronxsta

    Bronxsta Well-Known Member

    "pulls in over a million dollars a day"

    **Runs off to start development of free-to-play game**
     
  7. awp69

    awp69 Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2009
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    #8 awp69, Apr 13, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
    I agree. I know there's lots of devs struggling out there. But the vast majority of indie devs won't make any more money with freemium regardless. It's harsh and I acknowledge that crappy freemium games like the stuff that Zynga puts out do make a butt load of cash. But even those devs had to make a name for themselves. It's not like a cool retro platformer is going to make a lot of cash just because it's freemium. Word of mouth makes hits. Good placement on Apple's store like "New and Noteworthy" and reviews on big gaming sites. That IMO is what makes a difference.

    Not saying there isn't some crappy and even slimy devs who somehow get noticed like the casino games I see on the top grossing lists.

    There's been plenty of premium games like the ones JBRUU mentioned that make money because of quality and people recognizing a dev from previous efforts.

    I have no doubt that Gameloft will make a killing with DU4, but I also have no doubt that they still would have made a sizable profit if they had sold it for $6.99. The Dungeon Hunter name recognition alone would have made it a hit. It's Gameloft and EA that are showing that all they really care about is greed when they come out with games that have systems like DH4 and RR3 have.

    It's funny how there are some devs that do strive to balance things and make freemium work. I'm not opposed to that. Subway Surfers is a game that's also in the Top Grossing apps and it's a game that can be enjoyed without IAPs, or buying a few to give back to the devs, or if you really want to go whole hog you can. But it isn't forcing you to get them.

    Also agree with the author's comments about PC shareware style IAPs where you get to play some then fork out the dough to buy the full game. A one-time IAP to unlock a game is perhaps the best freemium model there is. You still get to let people try your game, but you're not killing them with constant purchases beyond the first one.

    To me, it's the big companies using name recognition like even Smurfville to abuse customers that are killing the App Store. Premium can still work and even freemium CAN be okay if done right. Giving into the companies like Gameloft, EA and Zynga is what's hurting.

    I really don't think freemium is what helps small devs. You either make or you don't, but IAPs aren't going to be worth crap if no one knows about your game.
     
  8. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
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    You're falling for the usual trap here though. Big games are released all the time and some are very successful - we even had our moment in the spotlight. But the big ones you were impressed with last month will soon be dropping out the top 100 because of these new ones you mention. They don't all get to eat.

    But it's not even that. It's just not a viable model to point at a big success and hail that as proof of anything. Relying on winning the lottery is not a way to run a business. It's just not.

    And nor is "build quality and you will make money". Without trying to turn this into being about me, our game has a couple of GOTYs and even a BAFTA in a non mobile category next to XCom and others. But we can't afford to make another one.

    If people don't like the message, I'd usually just say ignore me and watch the marketplace. But of course people are doing that and not liking what they see. Well, it's not that rosy on this side of the fence either.

    The thing about the end of a goldrush is that latecomers don't know it's over yet.
     
  9. m44

    m44 Well-Known Member

    Feb 16, 2013
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    I agree one thousand percent. I don't mind IAP as long as it's a one time purchase. I want to know the total cost of the game.

    There has to be some kind of shift in the market. Too many consumers have been burned by free to play games and are avoiding titles like RR3.

    *Mini rant incoming*

    Somebody should intervene with those gambling apps. I know this isn't exactly the place to discuss it, but a lot of the slot machines and similar apps are always in the top grossing charts. (There are good casino games, Video Poker by Happymagenta being an excellent example.) But, for the most part those Slot Machines, and similar apps are wrong.

    A child can't waste his money at the casino, but he could easily gamble by purchasing iTunes gift cards. . . . I'm not against gambling games. I'm just saying: There's a line where a "gambling game" just becomes "gambling".
     
  10. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

    Jun 16, 2009
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    The article isn't about how to succeed in game development, it's about whether or not the end products are going to suffer. The bottom line is that gamers only respect developers who make great games. If every dev shifts to a greedy F2P option, we won't bat an eyelid when they crash and burn. They can provide as many logical arguments as they like, point us to successes and failures, quote statistics, tell us how hard it is to make a living... but if the product isn't good, I don't care if they cry themselves to sleep. They have nothing to do with me. They're in a different business.

    You either make something that interests me and gain my support, or you don't. I'm not interested in the struggles of an App Store developer (actually I am, but for different reasons), I'm interested in what quality games are on offer for me to enjoy. Make it work, or preach to somebody else, because I'm no longer your target audience.
     
  11. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
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    I'm aware of that. I once again thought I could offer some insight and made the mistake of assuming I wouldn't get shot down for it.

    I (we) fully appreciate you're not all buying games to support developers, but because you want to play games. But do try and remember that when all those developers disappear skint back to AAA games or banking or wheverver the million and one present mobile startups originally came from, the appstore goes back to iFart apps.

    That's another extreme and the reality lies in the middle. After all, I myself have so far not released a freemium game, nor would I class the next one so. (Although some will). But one thing's for sure, without an increase in the base price the whole appstore customer base is prepared to pay, most developers will have to follow the money. Hardcore gamers isn't where that is anymore, and that is the hardcore gamers fault.

    Here is the simple truth to all that is freemium in a bite sized piece. Stop blaming "greedy" developers just trying to earn a living and go have a word with the forum guys asking when a $1.99 game is going on sale.
     
  12. Nobunaga

    Nobunaga Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2012
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    How about we blame both.
    I can't stand seeing the "waiting for a sale" posts, or "$2.99 for that?" Or whatever other cheap B/S posts people make.
    I also can't stand a developer that makes a game with the promise of no IAP just to go freemium a month down the road. I don't download freemium titles because if they are not obtrusive about IAP they fail and people get something for free and can bankrupt a developer. Alternatively the games can be unplayable without "pumping quarters" into your phone.
    For the Sake of disclosure, I'll say, I D/L a lot of games on sale. Games I would normally not buy. I pay a minimal price to try them out. A lot I delete within a day or two. Some, I keep.
     
  13. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

    Jun 16, 2009
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    We do have a word with them, constantly ;)

    To be honest I'm not too worried about iOS games. I may be wrong, but to me it seems this is about as bad as it's going to get in regards to Apple's App Store. We're completely flooded with garbage... but there will always be a small number of developers who just want to create a "pure" game, free of IAP. Right now they are just enough of these people to make iOS gaming worthwhile for me, and I don't think they're going to disappear any time soon.

    So with that in mind, my biggest concern is the console market. The points you put forward might have a place there, but to a lesser extent. We can't just pretend the likes of EA are only making the switch because they're in trouble, because in all likeliness they're not, they're just aiming for the money.

    Oh, and I wasn't shooting you down. I'm sure all of your points make perfect business sense, I just wanted to add my own separate points.
     
  14. SimianSquared

    SimianSquared Well-Known Member

    Dec 14, 2011
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    #15 SimianSquared, Apr 14, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
    No amount of bitching and articles will ever change what they listen to: the sound of the iAP cash register.

    You can't go on facebook with a thousand people and demand they stop paying to play farmville. They'll just ignore you and move on.

    Do you guys realise how tough it is for a developer to remain fair? The only thing stopping me from shunting out clone after clash of clans clone is my honor and that is a diminishing commodity among developers these days, particularly as games with server-authenticated iAP cannot be pirated easily at all.

    I crave to add iAP. I want to add iAP. I know it will make it easier to move my bank balance from red back into the black. I haven't done it yet, and I'm resisting it best I can, but that day will probably come.

    It's not all doom and gloom though. If the iAP is fair and just, and properly looked over transparently by people like you, before the game goes live, there's a chance iAP can be used in a just and fair manner that benefits both the player and the developer. I think that is possible.

    Count me among them but given the benefits of iAP:

    - less piracy
    - more revenue
    - no need to rely on top 100 ranking or a feature
    - ability to put the game on more devices as it is free

    Very hard for a dev to resist. How then, can developers resist it's siren call?
     
  15. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
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    I fully hear you on that score and share your sentiment. When the accepted price is fully 30-60 times greater, it's a harder sell to blame it purely on insufficient income. But then the likes of EA have few fans in either camp! :)

    I get that, partly this was me assuming the worst coming later, as what usually happens when I raise my head above the parapet. I'm obviously a masochist because I don't even make those sorts of games... :)
     
  16. awp69

    awp69 Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2009
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    Definately agree with you there. If there's a game I really want, I buy it.

    And as far as "greedy" devs, I'm not talking about the small indie devs trying to put food on their plates. Almost all of the games that I would say have given freemium a bad name come from the big guns. There are responsible ways for freemium to work. But the Gamelofts and the EAs of the world are the ones destroying that "fair" use of IAPs. My only point was that I'm not sure freemium really helps small devs. If they still only get a few downloads, being freemium isn't going to feed their families.
     
  17. actionrpg8000

    actionrpg8000 Well-Known Member

    Sep 17, 2012
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    I think some of the blame for this mentality has to go to devs as they are the ones who keep putting their games on sale. If I am interested in a game, but see that they put their game on sale for $.99 every other month, why would I pay full price? Price the product what it is worth and sell it. Starbase Orion is a great example of this. Pricey by App Store standards at $7.99, it had an intro sale for a month, and that was it. Hasn't had a sale in over a year, and it consistently ranks in the top 100 games in category.
     
  18. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

    Jun 16, 2009
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    But then... those devs are pressured into having sales by other devs who price their games at $.99 initially. It didn't take long when the App Store was new for people to notice that having the cheapest game on the store meant you'd sell enough copies to make the low price worthwhile, and then they only way others could compete was by constantly undervaluing their products and hoping it took off in the same way. Not a single developer around here honestly believes 99 cents is a fair price for the hard work they've put in, and they'd love to be able to price it nearer it's true value and have it sell the same number of copies, but it just won't happen.

    The only surefire way I can think of to combat it is for Apple to raise the minimum price, but that means less sales and less money for Apple.
     
  19. Nobunaga

    Nobunaga Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2012
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    I agree that $.99 is way too little (as is $2 $3 $4.....) for a lot of the quality products on the AppStore.
    Too a large extent both developers and consumers together created the state of things in the AppStore. Developers with all the price drops, consumers by waiting for them.
    It'll take both to get us out of this. I don't expect it though. What I do expect is;

    Developers will have sales when revenue drops because their livelihood depends on those revenues. Consumers will wait for sales / be cheap and only buy $.99 games (the majority, at least) and Fools will spend $100's on fake farm animals and digital smurfberries, but not buy a $4 game.
     

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