Imbroglio Izu Discussion

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by JackMule, May 21, 2017.

  1. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
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    #1 JackMule, May 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
    Izu Set 52: Dominic

    I'll try to write one of these for every set, but I might get lazy and not.

    Top 3 Scores

    Pictures of the boards are at the bottom of this post.

    1. vivafridge 245 (1/0/0)
    2. JackMule 214 (0/1/0)
    3. aloiivWizard 198 (0/0/1)

    Items

    Slingshot
    Vampiric Spear
    Crossbow
    Forbidden Scroll
    Entangling Rope
    Repercussion Drum
    Jagged Saw
    Bog Hands

    Building

    Pictures of the board are below.

    I thought it'd be useful to others if I explained the thought process behind creating my boards. Maybe it'll help others understand how to make their own.

    I'll use chess notation for describing positions of tiles.

    When building a board in Izu mode, I first look to discard items I consider weak relative to the others present. The Slingshot has niche usefulness and a maxed Jagged Saw is inferior to a maxed Vampiric Spear, so I ignore those items completely. It is worth noting that with the Jagged Saw you have a faster early game and the ability to leech exp to other squares easier, but I prefer late game strength over early speed in most boards.

    Since we do not have any items that deal 4 damage without a penalty, the first item that should be placed on the board is the Bog Hands. The positions of these tiles will determine which squares benefit from dealing less than 4 damage and which ones that don't. Because I want my strongest square for dealing with waves on c2, I arrange my Bog Hands in such a way that if Serpents move adjacent to the c2 square while clearing the wave, I can stun them unless they take a really long way around from their spawning gate.

    In order to keep my blue tiles on a diagonal (it's almost always bad if you have two adjacent to each other) I place a Forbidden Scroll in the bottem left corner. Serpents are obviously the hardest to deal with of the four basic monsters due to Dominic's handicap, so it's beneficial that they spawn less frequently than the others. Next, I place crossbows in the corners to help deal with monsters that are off-kilter (on your diagonal) as spending 2 runes to avoid taking damage when vital drains your resources quickly.

    One important thought to consider is that if the star is on a1, it is imperative that it is obtained in as few moves as safely possible. This is because if you're forced to fight more than two serpents as you are making your way to that square, there's a good chance you'll be in a state of peril as you have no way to kill them in one blow without spending mana, or you'll waste a lot of turns or runes trying to avoid taking damage. For this reason, it's logical that Repercussion Drums are placed on a2 and b1 in order to deal with Serpents immediately if one happens to spawn while heading in that direction. I placed another Drum on a3 for the same reason, but another Forbidden Scroll could work there as well

    The remaining space around the Bog Hands is filled in by Vampiric Spears because they synergize well with Bog Hands and finally the last space is taken up by an Entangling Rope. The Rope helps deal with multiple monsters attacking you as you could possibly stun one monster for 2 turns and therefore get an extra turn to deal with another monster before taking damage from the enemy that you stunned.

    Gameplay

    I'll be using the terms early/mid/late game a lot. I define the mid game as the period from the first Minotaur spawn (your gem count should be ~70, but it depends on your character/board) to the appearance of the first boss. Sometimes Minotaurs start spawning later than normal, so there's no definite instance of when mid game begins.

    Dominic has an extremely powerful ability if used correctly. Use it to reposition yourself to stronger squares (ie. stuck on a blue tile) and to escape damage when low.

    Serpents will give you the most trouble in the early game, so to mitigate that the most important square to level up first is the Forbidden Scroll. After that, I advise getting a Vampiric Spear to level 1 as they gain a lot of utility for such little exp.

    As all of our red weapons only gain extra damage at level 4, the mid game of this board is absolute garbage. It would seem intuitive that the first tile to max is the c2 Vampiric Spear, but if you focus all of your early exp on leveling Vampiric Spears you risk not being able to max your Repercussion Drums as the mana cost mid to late game might be too risky. Then there are the crossbows in the three corners that are useless late game unless maxed, so although it may seem like a good idea to have an easier mid game by maxing all of your Vampiric Spears first, it's much better to have a poorer mid game by spreading the exp (roughly) equally across your red tiles in order to ensure that you can survive for much longer in the late game. I'd max one Vampiric Spear and an adjacent Bog Hands (for survivability and leeching) and then focus on maxing Repercussion Drums and Crossbows.

    If a Unicorn spawns, your first thought might be to kill it on the c2 square, as I've mentioned that it is the strongest square for killing waves, but it's actually better if you kill it on the b3 square. This is because once the Vampiric Spear hits 4 damage the Bog Hands lose their utility relative to that square (unless you're fighting a boss) so it's better to make a Spear that doesn't benefit as much from the Bog Hands hit 4 than one that does. Keep in mind any weapon that hits for 3 will kill all lesser monsters equally as fast as one that hits for 2.

    Conclusion

    Although we fought back and forth for a while, vivafridge ended up stomping me with a board that revolves around the b2 square. My greatest mistake was writing off the Jagged Saws as although I'd never use them over anything else when playing Imbroglio normally, the restricted mobility and exp requirements of the Crossbows didn't make up for the benefit of not taking damage when fighting enemies at a distance. Ranged weapons in general only work well for Johnny - as his handicap strengthens them due to long corridors frequently being created, plus he can escape those tiles by using his ability - so I'll have to keep that in mind when for the next Izu with Crossbows/X-Ray Guns.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. vivafringe

    vivafringe Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2014
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    Impressive write-up! My own (less thorough) summary of my thoughts is here: https://vivafringe.wordpress.com/2017/05/21/izublog-1-dominic/

    The most striking difference in our philosophies here seems to revolve around whether to design with the early/mid game in mind, or whether to simply create the strongest possible late game board once all of your tiles are maxed. This ultimately came down to me using many Jagged Saws while you ignored them entirely. It seems like your approach worked better, since my early builds weren't powerful enough to start and I had to adjust to keep up.
     
  3. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
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    I'm pretty much always concerned about which board is the best late game as the only character that can't butcher their early game completely is Susannah. For the most part I find that a slower early game is worth a stronger late game, even if that late game is sluggish regardless.
     
  4. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
    193
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    #4 JackMule, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
    Izu Set 53: Molly

    Despite not having a single weapon that makes use of Molly's runes (Poisoned Chalice isn't a weapon, it's a death trap), this was still an above average set of items for her.

    I tried to write less than my last post but instead wrote more. Maybe I'll aim to write more next time.

    Top 3 Scores

    1. JackMule 228 (1/1/0)
    2. vivafridge 227 (1/1/0)
    3. Madeofwires (0/0/1)

    Items

    Vampiric Spear
    Bashing Warclub
    Dwindling Brazier
    Poisoned Chalice
    Forbidden Scroll
    Arcane Hourglass
    Rimeclaws
    Repercussion Drum

    Building

    The first item that stands out like a sore thumb is the Poisoned Chalice. Rarely will it be on any board that clears the game and that's for good reason. Comparing the Chalice to the Repercussion Drum, the only thing it does better is that it curses a random enemy upon a kill, but that does not at all compensate for the requirement of the attacked enemy being cursed in order to deal 4 damage. The only character that the Poisoned Chalice might make sense on is Ixxthl, but even with her there are far better items to choose from as she doesn't need to deal 4 damage due to her ability.

    The next item on the chopping block is the Arcane Hourglass. Why would we place an item that makes us have to deal with a foe later when we could put an item that kills it instead? That's not to say that it can't perform better than say for example a Bashing Warclub in certain scenarios, but it's too niche to be worth a spot and the mana cost on a character that sometimes can't avoid taking blue damage is just another reason to discard it. Like the Hourglass, the Drum isn't viable due to it's penalty.

    Molly's biggest problem isn't that the four main monsters can spawn at any gate, it's the fact that she has no way to deal with zugzwang (a position where the best move would be to wait a turn). In order to give ourselves an opportunity to manipulate the parity of enemies to ensure that they're not on our diagonals when we go to fight them, we make the Bashing Warclub the focal point of our board. I'd prefer to have a Vampiric Spear on c3, but because the centre of our board will have two Clubs - which will be paired with Rimeclaws in order to give us more options when choosing what colour we wish to fight enemies with - I instead place it on d3 as it's nice to be able to life-steal off of Chimeras while moving near their spawn. We want our red tiles aligned diagonally as much as possible, so our Warclubs are placed in that manner.

    Serpents will be a huge pain on this board since we have no defensive buffs nor any way to deal with Minotaurs without taking damage, unless fighting them with a level 0 Dwindling Brazier, so naturally making use of the Rimeclaws will be our secondary focal point. The Claws are placed in a similar manner to the Warclubs in order to spread them out over the board.

    It may seem silly to use Forbidden Scrolls with a character in which enemies spawn randomly, but as any gate will have a 62.5% chance to spawn its traditional monster when Molly's handicap is applied, reducing that percentage on the Serpents and Cubes is still far more beneficial than situational uses with the Arcane Hourglass. Less Serpents means less blue damage taken, and fewer Cubes gives way to more Chimeras and Wasps that we can one shot with Spears to life-steal. The Scrolls are put in spots that aren't adjacent to other blue tiles to minimize the chances of being stuck on blue areas. Dwindling Braziers go in the remaining corners because we need weapons that can deal with Minotaurs immediately when low on mana.

    Although having reds and blues on respective diagonals is nice, it isn't always necessary. The Brazier that was placed on d4 broke that rule and so will the Vampiric Spear that will be placed on c1. You could consider Braziers colourless in a sense that in many cases 4-3 damage will kill the vast majority of enemies, but with the Spear on c1 it's a matter of being able to life-steal frequently as you'll often be forced to take red damage, no matter how perfectly you use the Warclubs to avoid those situations. Finally, the remaining blank on a2 is filled by a Spear to facilitate more life draining opportunities.

    Gameplay

    You aren't able to use Molly's ability without having a ghost on the map, so I guess there's one less paragraph I need to write.

    Molly cannot deal with late game as well as other characters because of her inability to avoid zugzwang by using an active ability. Her trade off is that she can reach 256 much quicker than most by abusing Blink Daggers to fly around the map like Harry Potter in a game of Quidditch. We don't have Daggers and we still can't survive late game, so the best strategy is to take the quickest path to the star by ignoring the urge to drag exp to any squares off of that path.

    Although speed is important, this is still a marathon and not a sprint. It's about who's first in the last 10 seconds of their marathon, not who's first in their initial 10 seconds. Another analogy would be that if your mortality is ticking on an hourglass where the sand is your remaining move count, smashing the hourglass will get the sand out of it's upper chamber a lot faster than normal; the arcane rule is don't sprint into the hourglass and break it, play it safe by jogging around it. What I mean by this metaphorical prolix is if you can avoid damage by manipulating the positions of enemies, do so; two moves may grant two hundred. The two nontrivial ways of avoiding damage are by blocking a monster from spawning on your diagonal by walking in front of their gate and using the Warclubs to stun enemies that are paired (not on your diagonal) with you. Sometimes doing either of these might not be the safest option, so use your noggin above all else.

    Unlike the last Izu board I made, this one is much more forgiving to play in terms of exp distribution. As any board, only use Braziers when you need to or when they'll save you a bunch of turns. Get all of your Clubs and Spears level 1 before focusing on maxing your Spears. Rimeclaws will level up quickly because there aren't that many blue tiles on the board, but prioritize them over your Forbidden Scrolls as being able to hit 2 blue damage earlier will accelerate your board and make it safer. After that, everything else will max themselves naturally just by you surviving.

    If a boss spawns, you're most likely going to die unless you have a level 0 Dwindling Brazier. I'm assuming the game doesn't generate a boss if - while you are at full health/mana - it requires you to collect a bunch of stars in order to kill it, but in case I'm wrong or you want some extra mana leave a Brazier unlevelled if possible.

    Conclusion

    Due to two weapons being unviable, mine and vivafridge's boards looked quite similar. Although I managed to snag the top spot on the last day, I was disappointed nonetheless as I blundered and threw away a possible 240+ game . I'm not sure how I got into the position, but I ended up thinking that I was going to kill a Chimera in one hit while I was on my Forbidden Scroll. An unlucky Serpent that spawned in the bottom left corner as I was stuck fighting on b1 sealed my fate.

    Poisoned Chalice got a buff recently, so maybe these posts aren't in vain after all.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. vivafringe

    vivafringe Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2014
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    (my post)

    I was on the fence for a while about including Forbidden Scroll on Molly, but this post definitely sealed the deal.

    This time around, it seems like the biggest differences in builds are the Vampiric Spear vs. Warclub center, and double Forbidden Scroll vs. Dwindling Brazier + Arcane Hourglass.

    - The Warclub center is interesting, since I get your point about zugzwang being important. I'll make sure to try it out before the Izu ends. On the other hand, Spear sort of has a built in anti-zugzwang feature as well. You can just ignore red damage monsters and focus on making sure you line up correctly with Serpents and Minotaurs.

    - Not sure either about the 2nd scroll, blocking cubes. Like last Izu, the fact that you park on Vampiric Spears so often makes Cubes kind of annoying, but this time the Rimeclaws are pretty decent to park on as well (certainly better than Bog Hands).

    Overall another interesting board. Thanks for writing this up!
     
  6. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
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    I just like blocking Cubes so I can sit on a vamp and not waste too many turns if I have to clear a wave.

    The Clubs also help you move faster since if you kill something in your path you will for certain be able to advance to the square of the deceased.

    My board seems pretty consistent, as my only two scores were 220 and 216, but breaking 230 is going to be tough. I'll give it another shot tomorrow.

    You're welcome!
     
  7. Guise

    Guise Well-Known Member

    Jul 10, 2009
    2,027
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    This may be a dumb question, but does Izu refer to the 4-day daily mode or something else? If so, are your preferred board layouts different for the game's normal mode? Thanks in advance for any info or advice.
     
  8. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
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    #8 JackMule, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    Yup, Izu is the name for the 4-day game mode. Generally the boards used in Izu are weaker due to the 8 tile restriction, but a lot of the building process is still the same. Every character needs a different board layout to play to their strengths, so there isn't really one board I can tell you to make that works for everybody. Copying other peoples boards that have cleared the game (reached 256) is a good way to learn the game, so if you check the leaderboard section and use one of my boards I can explain to you how it works if you'd like. Keep in mind a lot of other peoples boards you'll see have pre-nerf Whetstone, so some setups can't make it to 256 anymore.
     
  9. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
    193
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    #9 JackMule, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
    Izu Set 54: Dominic

    I don't enjoy playing Dominic all that much (his play pattern is tedious) and we've seen quite a bit of him lately, but having Blink Daggers picks up the pace of his game so I ended up enjoying getting a decent score.

    Top 3 Scores

    1. JackMule 235 (2/1/0)
    2. vivafridge 215 (1/2/0)
    3. --[45df]-- 194 (0/0/1)

    Items

    Amulet of Immortals
    Slingshot
    Blink Dagger
    Forbidden Scroll
    Arcane Hourglass
    Jagged Saw
    Plague Totem
    Necromancer's Mask

    Building

    As per usual, the Slingshot gets discarded as soon as I see the icon. To be honest, it would be nice to have one Slingshot in order to slay Minotaurs in one blow, but if you're backed in a corner and are forced to fight a bunch of Serpents/Cubes, that's pretty much the end of the game.

    When I first looked at this item set I thought any board would be trash tier. The maximum amount of damage that can be dealt by you per turn is (excluding conditional cases) 2 for red weapons and 1 for blues. Not only are the weapons low damage dealing, but the Amulet and Mask are the only two defensive buffs available, both of which can't be stacked (having more than one tile of the same item) efficiently. There was one strength I overlooked that this set has and that's speed.

    To spend as little moves as possible fighting enemies, Plague Totems are placed in the majority of the corners. Unlike Blink Daggers they don't require any experience to function at their fullest (I'm not sure why Totems have the IV ability that they do, as you can't curse multiple enemies that well when Totems are your main way of cursing monsters) and they'll help deal with Serpents and Minotaurs much faster. Since Serpents spawn in the bottom left corner, another Plague Totem isn't the greatest choice as you'd rarely be able to curse a Serpent on that tile, so a Forbidden Scroll is placed instead to slow down the rate of Serpents being spawned.

    There's no real question on which red weapon needs to be in the centre of the board as the Jagged Saw is the only weapon that you can siege on. The Saws are placed diagonally to ensure that one is never too far away from wherever you are, while the Blink Daggers are placed in a fashion that spreads them evenly throughout the board. Since the Plague Totems can curse things consistently, being able to reach the star quicker allows us to cripple enemies much faster, not to mention that it heals your character more often. In a game where speed is crucial, Daggers are always strong weapons.

    Arcane Hourglasses fill the remaining space in the centre of the board, as there aren't any other options that won't be the death of you at some point. Because this board spends mana frequently, a Necromancer's Mask is placed on a2 to negate the threat of Ghosts draining our precious mana. There won't be many times where two Ghosts will be on the board at once, so instead of another Mask an Amulet is placed on d3. The two common monsters that spawn on that column can be taken down in one to two hits with the Amulet, so it's much more safer to have on d3 than a 1 damage blue weapon that takes three to four turns to kill those same enemies.

    Gameplay

    As most of the tiles on this board have similar damage outputs, the majority of the time you'll be using Dominic's ability simply to survive when you're low on resources. There may be times when a cramped dungeon is formed, in which case it might be worth two runes to get to the star quicker in order to transform the dungeon into a space that gives you more options per turn.

    Even without the ability to life-steal and with roughly three quarters of the lesser monsters dealing red damage, mana is much more important to conserve. Without any excess mana, five items lose the majority of their power and seeing as though our main way of dealing with Serpents is by cursing them and turning them into Ghosts, as soon as you lose the ability to curse using our Plague Totems things turn sour very quickly.

    Although as of recently this is one of the tougher boards to play, its play pattern is simple to understand. Ideally Serpents and Minotaurs will be cursed by Totems - while using Daggers to zip around the map - and upon reaching the star one of them will (hopefully) be turned into Caspers because of the Necromancer's Mask. The Saws will grind enemies to dust while the Hourglasses banishes those foes that can't be dealt with immediately. Although they're idle, the Scroll and Amulet provide a decent amount of utility by respectively reducing the chance of Serpents appearing and saving your skin when you're out of resources.

    With Dominic, the less Serpents the better, so getting the Forbidden Scroll to level one is the first priority. Plague Totems and Hourglasses don't need any exp to be useful, so I'd recommend trying to max the Mask first above all else. Once one Saw is level II, it can bring Cubes/Serpents/Minotaurs down to 1 hp in one turn in order for Blink Daggers or level I/III Saws to secure the kill, which is extremely useful as Daggers are especially thirsty for exp because of their increased utility with levels and 1 damage Saws are just liabilities. Worry about maxing the Amulet once most of the Daggers are level IV, as bringing you back to life to a board that can't deal enough damage to wipe out all of the current monsters won't get you many more stars.

    Conclusion

    On my best attempt I managed to gain around 20 additional gems after reviving on my Amulet of the Immortals with only 1 rune remaining, so you could say that I got a little bit lucky. It was an interesting board but - aside from the passive utility squares - as the only tile of this Izu that is strong late game is the Blink Dagger it would take a miracle to reach 256. Hopefully Dominic doesn't show up for at least a couple of weeks to give some of the other characters the spotlight.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
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    #10 JackMule, Jun 1, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
    Izu Set 55: Ixxthl

    I think 256 is possible with the items given for this Izu, but it'd require a lot of grinding in order to make it to full build and get lucky enough to survive the Dragon.

    Top 3 Scores

    1. JackMule 237 (3/1/0)
    2. vivafridge 231 (1/3/0)
    3. smestorp 196 (0/0/1)

    Items

    Wicked Thorns
    Blinding Lantern
    Malign Wand
    Poisoned Chalice
    Entangling Rope
    Rimeclaws
    Dice of Omens
    Dragon Skull

    Building

    I'll admit that I'm no Dream Wheel/Caltrops/Entangling Rope expert (I've never cleared the game with that setup, nor gotten anywhere close for that matter), so I haven't used the Blinding Lantern that much and don't really ever intend to. It's slow to kill a lot of enemies, only provides conditional stuns and one of the two stuns it provides costs mana. The Malign Wand also saps mana but has a much desired attribute of being able to curse monsters. However, because it has the drawback of being a ranged weapon that can get you stuck - unless you're willing to shell out some runes – it is a scary tile to be on late game and like the Blinding Lantern it does not provide enough utility to be worth the risk. Given that the remaining tiles in the set do not stun, the Entangling Rope will also have to sit this one out.

    Ixxthl's early game is bar none the frailest in the game, so in an attempt to drain Wasps and Chimeras mana before fighting them, Wicked Thorns are placed in the corners of the board. Once the Thorns are all over level 0, any enemy that spawns will have a chance to be cursed, which can't be said if they're positioned anywhere else. Not only will the Thorns help Ixxthl turn enemies into Ghosts, they'll also be the main source of power of the Poisoned Chalices.

    After a much needed buff (thanks Mr. Brough!) Poisoned Chalices have less of a chance of killing you than bosses. The curse effect upon a kill was moved from level IV to 0 and is now what costs mana, but in order to compensate for that buff it does additional red damage based on what level it is to enemies that are cursed. With these changes the Chalice can deal extra damage without spending mana and can curse things early on in the game, both of which are extremely beneficial to Ixxthl given that Ghosts will be doing a large portion of the damage dealt to her late game while Chimeras and Wasps will be consuming all her resources early. Now that the Chalice is much more reliable, it's capable of being placed on a zig zagging diagonal through the centre of the board. I want a set of Rimeclaws to be on c2 in order to deal with Wasps when I'm headed in their spawns direction, so I make sure that none of my Chalices take up that square when I place them in that zig zagging manner.

    Dragon Skulls are necessary to tackle multiple Ghosts at once, but they should never be placed in the centre of the board because of their unreliability to deal decent damage. Instead they're put around the perimeter equally spaced from one to the next so that there's minimal risk of being forced to fight on them in a closed space. The remaining holes on the perimeter are filled with Dice of Omens to give us a couple of tiles that deal 2 damage without a penalty and to curse monsters as a backup when the Thorns fail to do so. Rimeclaws are then added to the centre so that Ixxthl's chance of surviving early game goes from 0% to 1% by allowing her at full health to 1v1 a Wasp without dying - assuming that she has the mana to use them.

    Gameplay

    Ixxthl is easily the most unique character in the game as her focus is not about forging a set of weapons that deal large amounts of damage to monsters, it's about whittling down enemies so that when she does meet one she can kill it with a flick of her wrist. Being able to convert every enemy on the board to a Ghost for a single rune gives an option out of pretty much any situation when combined with a Necromancer's Mask or two, but unfortunately we don't have those so Ixxthl's ability is much less lenient to use in this set. Even without a security blanket to aid Ixxthl's active, it's pretty much the only option that can be taken when a group of Chimeras and Wasps spawn without being cursed.

    The early game of this board is nonexistent and as a result it's likely that twenty games could be played before reaching its mid game. Luckily, most of those games last under a minute as any combination of two or more Chimeras/Wasps has a good chance of stopping Ixxthl's advance. Although Chimeras and Wasps can give quite a bit of trouble, if a Cube or Serpent is left alive to chase you when one of them spawns, you can kill that follower with a Chalice to curse the new arrival so that it becomes a pushover after collecting the next star. During the first phase of the game health is slightly more important to conserve as the majority of the enemies deal red damage, but as the game progresses and a stockpile of runes accumulates, mana essentially becomes your health and hearts turn into shields to protect what little mana that can be spared.

    As the Wicked Thorns do the majority of the disabling, the most important tiles to give exp to are the Thorns on the right side of the board. Although the Thorns can curse those pesky mana heavy foes, sometimes the path to the star is blocked by those same foes, prohibiting their transformation into Ghosts, which is why I'd advise working towards getting all Chalices to level I in order to deal with those cursed enemies when giving experience to the rightmost Thorns is not possible. Once the Chalices hit level I, try to give exp elsewhere as they become easy to max once the majority of monsters appearing are likely to be cursed. Being able to kill Serpents and Chimeras in one blow with Rimeclaws grants a large amount of safety and as such they should be maxed before anything else (they'll naturally soak up more exp than Thorns due to their higher damage capacity so it's okay to max them first.) Having extra mana from Dragon Skulls seems better than additional cursing from Dice of Omens, but more cursing can lead to saving mana when sieging on a Chalice so you can't go wrong if you decide to max one before the other.

    Overall this board is interesting to play once it gets to late game due to the fact that you're pretty much always on the verge of dying because of your excessive spending of mana, but getting that far is tedious from constantly reseting during the first few minutes. If a couple of the Dragon Skulls were replaced with Necromancer's Masks and the Dice of Omens were swapped with Ixxthl's Rings, I'm sure this board would have the potential to make it to 256, but in its current state it requires way too much luck for me to want to make the push for a clear.

    Conclusion

    Although having more mana is guaranteed by Dragon Skulls, increasing the odds of cursing by using more Dice of Omens made my board quite a bit safer. In my original board, once all of the Dragon Skulls were maxed it was fairly difficult to recover the entirety of mana missing so the benefit of gaining another 1-2 mana after my 6th mana slot was minimal. I placed the Dice of Omens in an odd pattern with 2 of them outside the Serpents spawn and the same for the Chimeras spawn. This orientation spreads out the weapons that deal 2 blue damage by aligning those weapons on a diagonal, which is handy for when I have enough resources to fight monsters without using Ixxthl's ability. I felt I could have gotten a much higher score because I played late game pretty poorly, but I'm content on getting as far as I did anyways.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
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    #11 JackMule, Jun 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
    Izu Set 56: Jeska

    What's nice about getting 256 in Izu is I know that vivafridge can't 1-UP me and force me to start competing again.

    Top 3 Scores

    1. JackMule 256 (4/1/0)
    1. vivafridge 256 (2/3/0)
    3. ecuzzillo 225 (0/0/1)

    Items

    Vampiric Spear
    Ancient Shield
    Bashing Warclub
    Mystic Whisk
    Dice of Omens
    X-Ray Gun
    Switchblade
    Forged Sigil

    Building

    After skimming through the list, there were only 2 items that I considered unusable: the X-Ray Gun and the Forged Sigil. A ranged weapon that only deals 1 damage is just asking to get canned, no matter how many monsters it hits per turn, and the Forged Sigil has no use here as you can spam your runes whenever it benefits you to do so and still not run out. In all honesty, the Forged Sigil is probably only worthwhile on Ixxthl, as her and Dominic's abilities allow them to survive almost any scenario, while the remaining characters either can't use their ability to save their skins at times or won't run out of runes under normal circumstances.

    When I saw that the most damage per turn that could be dealt with any item in this set was 2 I thought achieving 256 would be extremely unlikely. After tinkering with my original board that involved Vampiric Spears being the focal point in order to have a decent late game – which was futile as surviving late game for an extended period of time with the items given is impossible - I took a page from vivafridge's design and made the focal point the Switchblade instead. This went against my trend of building strong late game boards and instead honed in on trying to clear the game as fast as possible, which in turn allowed me to get to the first boss with a score of roughly 240, by far the fastest board I've ever used as my average score by that point is 180.

    Although the Switchblades were the focal point of this board, I didn't end up placing them until last. First the Mystic Whisks were arranged in a vertical zig zagging pattern through the middle of the board, making sure that a Whisk was on b1 to kill Serpents in one blow just outside of their spawn. Mystic Whisks are very powerful for blue weapons, as they're one of the few blue tiles that can deal 2 damage, and like the Switchblades they allow you to keep moving onward towards the star even if the enemy you're attacking it with is strong against its colour. To keep the blue tiles on diagonals, Dice of Omens are added to a2 and d3, which not only help preserve a fairly even colour distribution, but also help speed up the game by turning a lot of enemies into Ghosts that can be killed by any tile immediately.

    Ancient Shields guard the Cubes spawn, while a Shield on c1 and a Vampiric Spear on d2 are ensconced outside the Wasps spawn. Since speed is vital, only one Spear can nest on the board as any more would soak up too much exp from the other tiles and turns in order to be strong, compared to Shields that gain an extra damage point at level II, which makes them able to kill Cubes and Serpents efficiently. We don't even need more than one Spear anyways as the extra health from the Shields will provide enough time to move from the left side of the board to the right before dropping into a state of peril.

    The Switchblades get placed in an unorthodox set-up, with two independent pairs of Switchblades linked up on diagonals – one pair being in the centre and the other far across from each other in the top left and bottom right corners. In this manner, after using a Switchblade not only will you always have the option to siege, but the odds of being forced onto another Switchblade on the next turn is relatively low. This is an extremely important fact as although the Blades give the board its extreme mobility, they don't help much with sieging, which is a vital option to have in the mid game. Bashing Warclubs take up the remaining corners as they require minimal exp to become safe to grab a star on with enemies nearby.

    Gameplay

    Although only one item in this set synergizes with Jeska's ability, her power is so strong and cheap that even without gaining many benefits from cursing she can still clear the game with relative ease. You can use her curse to change the parity of monsters, ensure an enemy turns into a Ghost on the next star pickup and even plague an enemy so that it gives you more life from your Vampiric Spear. If it's safer or faster to use your ability than not, do so as the only way of running out of runes is through poor play/a series of unfortunate dungeon layouts and monster movement.

    Speed is everything with this dungeon. Each good usage of the Switchblade grants at least an extra turn and every six turns saved is about equal to a gem. Cursing Minotaurs and turning them into Ghosts is a great way to deal with them early on when most tiles don't hit 2, while using Whisks to move enemies out of your path to the star to prevent backtracking grants haste as well.

    There is not a single tile on this board that requires level IV in order to be useful and as such there is no tile that should have exp dumped onto it by wasting turns. The Ancient Shields level IIs should be prioritized first, followed by the Clubs level Is to grant more tiles that can safely kill 3+ health monsters. At the same time, any enemies weak to blue weapons should be killed by the Dice of Omens if possible since they passively curse monsters which can turn into Ghosts, therefore likely to save turns. Because of the Vampiric Spears position being close to two enemy gates that spawn red-weak monsters, it will level up quickly even if most of its potential exp is diverted elsewhere. As there are only 6 blue tiles on the board and the Whisks are the strongest blue weapons to siege on, they'll be maxed without effort. It might be worth a couple of turns to funnel exp into the two centre Switchblades to get them to level IV for extra damage, but doing so for the ones in the corners is a waste of time as they won't be used frequently.

    I always used to think that getting to 256 required boards to be strong late game, but this Izu proved me wrong. It turns out the best board that I found sacrificed late game almost entirely for a speedy early and mid game, which isn't much of a sacrifice if you don't really have to play the late game.

    Conclusion

    vivafridge managed to tie me with his board that revolves around Switchblades occupying all of the centre. I'm interested in looking for potential ways Switchblades can be incorporated into other pre-existed board layouts, as its element of speed is nigh unparalleled. He also brought up a good point that one of Jeska's resources won't regenerate completely from grabbing gems if its maximum count is two or more higher than the other, so without a doubt it would have been more optimal later in the game to swap a Vampiric Spear for the Ancient Shield on a3 with my board, but it would come at a cost of early speed and safety. You learn something new every Izu.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
    193
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    #12 JackMule, Jun 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
    Izu Set 57: Ixxthl

    I've started putting damage profiles and descriptions of the weapons in the items sections for those who aren't as familiar with them as others. Let me know if this was a terrible idea and that you object profusely if you don't like it.

    Top 3 Scores

    1. vivafridge 256 (3/3/0)
    1. JackMule 256 (5/1/0)
    3. ecuzzillo 246 (0/0/2)

    Items

    Entangling Rope (1/1/1/1/1) 0: When this hits a monster, stun all other monsters of the same kind. I: Once per turn, when a monster is stunned, 12/25/37/50% chance to stun them for an additional turn.
    Geomantic Orb (1/1/1/1/1) I: When this hits a monster, destroy a random wall. IV: When this kills a cursed monster, gain a rune.
    Morphic Mirror (1/1/1/1/2) 0: Once per turn, after this hits a monster, spend mana to hit all other monsters of the same kind.
    Dice of Omens (1/1/1/1/2) I: Each turn, 1/2/3/4% chance to curse a random monster.
    Bog Hands (1/1/1/1/1) I: When a monster is hit here, 25/50/75/100% chance to stun them.
    Dragon Skull (1/1/1/1/1) I: When this hits a monster, 25/33/42/50% chance they lose two mana. IV: Your hero gains one maximum and current mana.
    Brainspoon (1/1/1/1/1) 0: When this hits a monster, spend mana to take control of them. IV: Controlled monsters deal +1 damage.
    Necromancer's Mask (1/1/1/1/1) I: When this levels up, all monsters become Ghosts. IV: One random Ghost is your friend.

    Building

    In Izus where the maximum damage an item can do to an individual monster is 2, Bog Hands often reign supreme. This is not the case here. Bog Hands help a slow and steady type of game where it's difficult for monsters to kill you because they're always paralyzed, but they're always flooding the screen because you have no tools to clear waves fast. It's a war of attrition that simply doesn't work for a character whose main method of dealing with monsters is spamming the ability button as a child might do to the buttons of an elevator in hope that the ride will finish quicker.

    Another item which isn't universally good, nor any good here, is the Entangling Rope. There has to be an obvious way of manipulating longer stun durations to your benefit (*cough*, Dream Wheel & Caltrops, *cough*) or it's all up to chance as to whether you'd want a longer stun or not, and because I already got rid of the only item it synergizes well with, the only use it has is lengthening the stuns from Ghosts. Sometimes a longer stun might help you fight a monster without it returning any punches, but other times it could line the two of you up so that it gets the first strike. Since its risk is about equal to its reward, it isn't worth choosing over any of the remaining options.

    Except for maybe the Brainspoon. An item more tragic than the tale of Romeo and Juliet, the Brainspoon is the item we all want to love but are forbidden to do so. The irony is that because it's arguably the coolest weapon in the game we have a desire to use it the most, but if we do use it we're more than likely to get killed, therefore making us use it the least of all. The star crossed lovers have nothing on this tile.

    Let's go over the perks of the Brainspoon. You can use those under your control as meat shields, have Ixxthl indirectly deal red damage, order a Ghost to obtain gems quickly, kill a boss by having it tango with its own henchmen, and you can even whittle away things by bashing them directly with the Brainspoon! There are only a few caveats, the most obvious being that it costs mana to use, but the biggest problem is that you are locked into that monster until either it's dead or you command it to attack you, upon which instead of damaging you it is merely stunned for a turn. In a game where you are forced to consider every possible variation of RNG before you move, there is no scarier moment than when you go to pick up a gem while using the Brainspoon. Depending on the dungeon generation, there's a maximum of 15 turns (without including monsters obstructing your path) that you might have to make before you could directly be able to regain control of your hero, which is plenty of time for any monster to make mince meat of you. Is it likely the path back to your hero will take 15 turns? No. Is a smaller number of turns that can kill you likely to happen? Very. There are some other gripes that don't help its appeal, such as losing exp when your slaves die and doing 1 or 2 damage at most per turn, but being unable to release a monster at will is what makes this item unviable on the majority of characters.

    Now that I've trash talked the Brainspoon and told you why it should be left in the dumpster, let's actually get to what the previous subtitle said I'd be talking about which is how I came up with a board using the items I haven't dismissed. The Morphic Mirror is one of the few weapons we have that deals 2 damage and is the only weapon that has waveclear (ability to hit multiple enemies at once), so it is used as the secondary focal point of our board by being placed in a horizontal zig zagging pattern, making sure to have one Mirror placed on c2 to help deal with Wasps as they leave their spawn. But what's the first focal point? How can we already be at the secondary focal point when we haven't even established the primary focal point? We've got one item on the board and you're telling me we already have two focal points? Because of their massive game altering implications, Ixxthl's pair of handicap and ability is almost always her primary focal point and so the remaining items will not look to draw power from her ability but seek to amplify it instead.

    As we've decided the majority of this boards strength will lie in Ixxthl's ability, we need an energy source for her to keep turning all of our foes into Ghosts without running out of stamina. Geomantic Orbs solve this problem, so they are placed in a manner that is intertwined the the Morphic Mirrors yet vertical. However, much like Ixxthl, the Geomantic Orbs also need a power source so that they can generate runes as clams do pearls, so to give them a chance to produce our priceless treasures frequently, Dice of Omens are scattered evenly across the perimeter of the board. In order to supplement utility to our ability, Necromancer's Mask are placed in two opposite corners while the extra mana from the two Dragon's Skulls that are added to the final corners will allow us to use the Morphic Mirror's waveclear ability more often as well as help with surviving the Dragon. The Skulls are situated in spots where they can kill the typical monsters that spawn nearest to them in one blow if lucky.

    Gameplay

    I mentioned last time I wrote about Ixxthl that her early game is very weak due to her inability to use red damaging items. Now that this set doesn't have any strong early game items, this board has by far the weakest start to any Izu set-up I've gotten a decent score with. As such, don't be surprised if you have to restart immediately upon starting the game because a Wasp that's guarding the gem spawned off kilter to you. Attempt to level up a tile of Dice of Omens as soon as possible to gain a rune so you can deal with unmanageable Chimeras and Wasps.

    The fundamental idea behind this board is accumulating runes to use your god-like ability, so killing what is cursed with level IV Geomantic Orbs is always worth a few lost turns, unless it results in a net loss of runes or death. Saving runes is as effective as gaining, so instead of using your ability as soon as a monster spawns that cannot be dealt with directly by anything on the board, look to have it follow you around the map so it can either be cursed and turned into a Ghost, or have other monsters join it so you get 2+ Ghosts for the price of 1 rune. Once all of those monsters are Ghosts, they can easily taken care of by one hit from the Morphic Mirror, provided you have some spare mana.

    Our only consistent way of cursing monsters, which isn't consistent at all, is using the Wicked Thorns little sister the Dice of Omens. They are the root power source of the board and deal a rare 2 blue damage at max rank, so they should be maxed immediately. Waste up to 6 turns dumping exp into these as your game will be cut very short from spending tons of runes to emaciate Chimeras and Wasps if you don't. As the Morphic Mirrors have an easier time than the rest levelling up because of their innate waveclear - not to mention that the Geomantic Orbs will also be putting the curses of the Dice to good use - the Geomantic Orbs should be maxed second, followed by the Mirrors. When it's safe, funnel experience into the Dragon Skulls as it's pretty much required to have extra mana to tackle the dragon, before attempting to finish the Necromancer's Masks to make your ability a safe haven.

    This board is a nightmare to get through the early game and its late game isn't even worth the effort. If we had Wicked Thorns to replace the Dice of Omens so we could have higher rates of cursing, this Izu would be a breeze as our rune supply wouldn't be an issue. Morphic Mirrors also aren't ideal when paired with Necromancer's Masks since the Masks subdue most/all the Ghosts that appear. Mystic Whisks would be much better replacements for the Mirrors as they whisk monsters away - sometimes freeing a path to the gem to facilitate the transformation of a cursed monster into a Ghost - which can help with avoiding damage when sieging. Compromising is just the name of the game when it comes to Izu.

    Conclusion

    Although I will almost always refuse to play with Brainspoons on other characters, vivafridge proved that they can be used as viable corner weapons for Ixxthl, which is something I may try my hand at in future Izus.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
    193
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    #13 JackMule, Jun 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
    Izu Set 58: Johnny

    I've played Johnny in Izu three or four times now but have yet to see Harry, Susannah or Masina at all. Here's hoping one of those three is chosen next Izu.

    Top 3 Scores

    Pictures of the boards will be at the bottom of this post when this Izu ends.

    1. JackMule 161 (6/1/0)
    2. thomp ~ 149 (0/1/0)
    3. Madeofwires 146 (0/0/2)
    3. QuestNemestrina 146 (0/0/1)

    Items

    Slingshot [R] (1/1/1/1/1) I: When this hits Minotaurs or stronger, they lose mana for each level.
    Brutal Axe (1/1/2/2/2) I: When this kills a monster, curse a random monster. IV: Curse another monster upon a kill.
    Blight Broadsword (2/2/3/3/4) Only devours cursed monsters.
    Malign Wand [R] (1/1/1/1/1) 0: When this hits a monster, spend mana to curse them. IV: When this kills a monster, curse all monsters.
    Poisoned Chalice (1/1/1/1/1) 0: When this kills a monster, spend mana to curse a random monster. I: Upon hit, cursed monsters additionally lose health equal to this items level.
    Forbidden Scroll (1/1/1/1/1) I: The nearest gate can't spawn a monster if it was the last gate to do so. IV: When this hits a monster, return them to their gate.
    Festerfang Venom (1/1/1/1/1) IV: Once per turn, after a cursed monster is stunned, hit them.
    Bonesnare (1/1/1/2/2) 0: After you spend a rune, hit the monster here.

    Building

    Wow – what a selection of items we've been granted for this Izu. I'd normally throw out the majority of weapons at first glance, but since playing with two items is not an option it'll have to be a matter of which bad item is worse than the other. Clearing is out of the question as without Blink Daggers Johnny takes far too long to reach 256 stars.

    I don't know whether to laugh or cry whenever I see the Festerfang Venom in Izu; it might as well say “an Amulet of Immortals but doesn't revive you.” The Bonesnare's leaps and bounds more useful than the former, as it eventually hits for 2 damage, but it's outclassed by any other red weapon that deals 2 because its ability is too situational and deals pitiful damage for the exp and spot on the board that it costs.

    Johnny's boards are very unique in the sense that most of the fighting will be done in the perimeter, as opposed to the centres like the majority of heroes. With that in mind, since the Brutal Axe is second in strength to the Blight Broadsword it gets placed in a horizontal zig-zag through the centre. I order the zig-zag horizontally because I want to avoid using any Poisoned Chalices in the first column of the board, as there are a number of scenarios involving unlucky Cube and Serpents spawns when you're confined in that first column that'll drain your mana quickly due to the Poisoned Chalices 0: ability.

    Our mobility will naturally be restricted by walls forming more frequently because of Johnny's handicap, so it's important to have access to an opposite coloured weapon nearby from any tile so we aren't wasting too many turns to travel to said weapon in order to kill a monster using less attacks. Keeping that trend, Slingshots are placed in the corners diagonal to the Brutal Axes. Crossbows would be much better alternatives to Slingshots, but as ranged weapons both help Johhny with zugzwang and are safer to use because of Johnny's innate escape and frequent closed corridors being generated by Johnny's handicap, Slingshots are still worthwhile here. The same is true for the Malign Wands that are placed in the remaining corners.

    Albeit unreliable, we have multiple ways of cursing enemies to ensure that our Blight Broadswords will be the strongest weapon to use against non-cursed foes. As mentioned previously, the perimeters are likely to receive the majority of combat, so Broadswords are spread equidistant apart from the closest of the same kind. Poisoned Chalices gain power from Brutal Axes, so although they have the penalty of costing mana when they curse an enemy, they still outclass Forbidden Scrolls as damage dealers. Chalices fill the remaining spots on the board except for b4, in which place a Scroll resides. Levelling all Broadswords to level IV so that they can deal 4 damage won't be feasible with the methods of cursing available, and killing blue-weak monsters with Wands and Chalices risks getting trapped or draining mana fast respectively, so it follows that Cubes would be the most formidable of the common monsters. The scroll on b4 not only helps reduce the amount of Cubes that we have to face, but it also gives us a non-ranged square to kill Cubes in one blow without unwillingly spending mana.

    This board is trash, but I suppose one man's trash is another's treasure, which is often the case in Izu.

    Gameplay

    Scoring well with this board requires an unorthodox play-style that's only akin to Vesuvius Bob's; you should play fast, but you can't play too fast by spamming your runes or you'll quickly run dry and lose access to your only escape tool. It's a fine balance of saving many turns per rune and surviving through long passages to hold on to those precious runes – one that is not trivial in the slightest, as it's instinctual (but wrong here) to hold on to runes if possible in order to survive later in the game. Keep in mind that surviving for as long as possible is not the goal here and that stockpiling runes will only force you on average to spend more runes per star at an earlier star count if you do so. Use runes to get through unfavourable dungeon generations quickly and to save at least 7 turns to the star on unnecessary uses. If you can save turns while also killing a monster with Johnny's ability, look to force that instead of using his ability then fighting a monster – unless you wish to change relative parity by attacking or you want to feed an item with it.

    Since it's a long road to every star and we have no way of regaining our resources aside from gem pickups, avoid taking damage if conveniently possible when you won't be at max hp/mana after the next pickup. Nearly every item on the board has an interaction with curses in some way, so cursing as many enemies as possible with safe uses of Brutal Axes is what we'll be looking to do during the mid game. By keeping all enemies on the board cursed our Poisoned Chalices and Malign Wands can kill and deal damage without sucking the life out of us, our Blight Broadswords can level up faster and some enemies will be transformed into frail Ghosts upon gem pickups. Another priority is to keep monsters on the board at a minimum as there are no items that are likely to deal 4 damage nor are there any that can kill two monsters in one turn, which risks wasting many turns and runes in order to deal with big waves or a chance of dying.

    Experience distribution is fairly simple with this deck as the only immediate goal is to reach an early level I on the Forbidden scroll. Funnelling exp into the Brutal Axes until they all reach level II is the proceeding step, as it eliminates weaknesses on the board by adding an extra damage point to each Axe. Afterwards, The Blight Broadswords become the main targets of exp soaking so that they can kill Serpents in one hit upon reaching their level IIs. With so few blue weapons on the board, the Poisoned Chalices and Malign Wands will be maxed merely by efficient fighting, while Slingshots will gain experience rapidly due to their relatively decent sieging and damage avoiding capabilities and as such their level advancements do not need to be prioritized over other items.

    Conclusion

    After this set, I don't know if I'm looking forward to an Izu with all F-tier weapons or dreading it. I wonder if there's a character/item set combination where getting over 100 is highly unlikely. Let's hope I don't find out tomorrow.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
    193
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    #14 JackMule, Jun 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
    Izu Set 59: Masina

    I thought I'd mix up the format this time because I didn't want to complain the entire post about how Masina's constantly placed in unescapable deaths. Hopefully a subjective harangue is just as satisfying to read as a series of objective statements.

    Top 3 Scores

    1. vivafridge 256 (4/3/0)
    2. JackMule 246 (6/2/0)
    3. eddybox 230 (0/0/1)

    Items

    Whetstone (1/1/1/1/0) IV: Increases damage of adjacent weapons in row.
    Amulet of Immortals (1/1/1/1/1) IV: Upon death, respawn here and reset to level 0.
    Reaping Scythe (1/1/1/1/2) II: When this kills a monster, a random monster becomes a Ghost.
    Rusty Caltrops (1/1/1/2/2) IV: When a monster moves here, stun them.
    Brutal Axe (1/1/2/2/2) I: When this kills a monster, curse a random monster. IV: Curse another monster upon a kill.
    Dwindling Brazier (4/3/2/1/0)
    Echo Harp (1/1/1/1/1) I: Once per turn, after this hits a monster, 25/50/75/100% chance to hit a random monster.
    Bonesnare (1/1/1/2/2) 0: After you spend a rune, hit the monster here.

    Rambling

    After what I thought was my last game of 868-Hack (another one of Michael Brough's roguelikes) that I'd play for a long time – an expansion in the near future has me convinced otherwise – I thought I'd give Mr. Brough's other iOS games a shot. I duelled in Glitch Tank, a one on one battle versus either an AI or another human, and died valiantly in his endless (?) encircling game Helix for about a combined half an hour before I thought I'd seen enough of both to confirm that I wasn't interested in getting good at either. Although I intend to complete it at some point, I didn't get very far into the puzzling world of Corrypt. I don't intend to downplay it, as it does have fascinating concepts such as warping terrain from one screen to another, but most of what I played involve moving objects attached to your character into specific locations, which wasn't enough to suppress my desire to move onto Mr. Brough's initial iOS roguelike Zaga 33.

    868-Hack had set my standard for roguelikes pretty high – it was my only roguelike that I had played at the time – so in retrospect it's understandable why I was disappointed after finishing the entirety of the game in under an hour. Zaga's way of adding variance to its item system by masking all abilities with random icons wasn't enough to make multiple playthroughs feel distinct, and its pushover difficulty once I employed a basic strategy of stockpiling items was just another factor for never feeling the urge to play just one more run, something that 868-Hack made me crave after each failed attempt.

    Once I'd tried all else, I returned to Imbroglio to see if I could crack the egg I couldn't grasp on my original assessment; my first impression of Imbroglio was that it was inferior to 868-Hack in almost every way. All monsters had the same AI which made them as a whole feel bland, the spawn position of enemies was strict and as such meant that considering your position upon their arrival was less important, and there were times when I felt that no matter how good I was playing, the game could just kill me if it felt like it.

    Meet Masina, the most helpless character against zugzwang and a major source of why I once thought beating Imbroglio was based too much on luck. Whereas Molly has help once waves start pouring in by being able to manipulate random effects without any worry of running dry on runes, Masina's either low or has already ran out of runes – not to mention that her ability only grants her one extra damage point if she's attacking on a red tile. Naturally, Masina has an accelerated early game in comparison by being able to kill most foes in fewer blows with weak red weapons, but that doesn't help with escaping nearly as much as being able to have a say in which enemies get struck by random effects that dictate parity.

    She might not have the strongest ability, but like any other character it's still beneficial to try to preserve them. Whetstones quench Masina's rune thirst by allowing one damage red weapons to kill Chimeras without spending them, and Echo Harps help deal with zugzwang by killing enemies that she's off-kilter to without coming face to face with them, so the board that I arrived at uses those two extensively. I tried my hand at incorporating Rusty Caltrops into my board to strengthen my Echo Harps and give me options to indirectly sync up enemies, but they often clogged passageways and forced me to fight on less than ideal tiles so I scrapped them and replaced them with two couples of Whetstones and Reaping Scythes. Because they turn random monsters into Ghosts upon a kill at level II, Scythes are great at chaining kills and levelling up quickly without spending too many runes on Masina and are solid tools for clearing out waves late game. Semi-closed (layouts that have 4-6 walls) and closed (layouts that have 7-9 walls) dungeons often place Masina into an unavoidable death by forcing her to move into unfavourable tiles, making Amulet of Immortals extremely valuable. My best configuration I came up with uses two of them, which are paired with their own Whetstone to help them max out faster and give the hero a better chance of getting off of them once revived.

    Although Masina has a lot of inherent problems and can be utterly frustrating to play, seeing her this Izu reminded me of why I now consider Imbroglio superior to 868-Hack, which is a truly impressive feat (after all, 868-Hack was my favourite roguelike). Both games have unique appeals, but Hack has one trait that dampens the question of survivability which is that the games state of winning or losing is most often decided in the first two (out of eight) sectors. No matter how many powerups are implemented, you still only need to siphon handful of progs to ensure enough options to get you out of any scenario with proper play.

    This doesn't affect Hacks charm too much in the early games of score streaks – as most of the first ~15 games are focused on getting to the secret stage to achieve otherwise unobtainable scores while expending your resources fully in an efficient manner – but once three or four powerups pile on, playing for access to the secret level becomes nearly impossible, which results in games with fractions of the scores you could potentially get. After about the halfway mark to what I'm sure most would consider the final stage of Hack, level 33, the style of gameplay makes this heavy shift from scoring mode to survival mode in which your total score will grow minimally. That's kind of a problem in its own right, but my main gripe is that since you're forced to play with an inability to transport yourself to the secret stage, the games become lacklustre when the best strategy is to instead safely hoard your supplies and just pick up as many points as you can on the last sector.

    Let me stress that when access to the secret stage is possible, it isn't detrimental to Hacks enjoyability if surviving is guaranteed with perfect play as the main goal of those types of games is scoring. The reverse is true, however, if the entire purpose is to survive and you can determine that you will after the first phase of the game is completed. That's what makes Imbroglio captivating every time I play. No matter how good I get I'll never know whether or not I'm going to clear Imbroglio after its opening seed, making the outcome of survival one of the most intriguing questions Imbroglio presents – even if it means I have to take a cheap death from Masina every now and then.

    TL;DR Building

    Whetstone + Echo Harps = Good

    TL;DR Gameplay

    RNG simulator 2017

    TL;DR Conclusion

    vivafridge's clear is pretty stellar and I'm surprised he was able to do so with his board given how many weak tiles it has once maxed. I'd love to know how much of the late game he had to endure before he finished, as I only made it to the second boss once with a score of 244 (I was playing really safe and slow, which still ended in my death.)
     

    Attached Files:

  15. vivafringe

    vivafringe Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2014
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    #15 vivafringe, Jun 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
    My Masina clear was a pretty standard time for me, I think. Past first boss and the minotaur rush (which I had to go down to two runes to survive), but definitely way before the second boss. In my experience if I get to the second boss, I was too slow and probably can't win (although there are some exceptions with super strong lategames like Dreamwheel setups).

    It looks like your setup possibly wastes too many moves leveling the Amulets (it's hard to get XP on the corners), but I'm not sure.
     
  16. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
    193
    0
    0
    I do need more exp to max my board, but I thought everything hitting more would waste little exp so I could hit higher faster. That said, I was surprised when I arrived at the first boss twice with two very different gem counts (~220 on my 246 game and ~200 on my 244 game) so maybe I was playing too safe around exp and getting trapped.

    I don't know if you were strictly talking about Masina, but Susannah pretty much plows through everything, even if it's at a really slow pace. Many times I'll reach the 3rd and 4th bosses with her, as she has one of the easiest albeit cumbersome mid-late games with a quad Whetstone and Vamp Spear setup.
     
  17. JackMule

    JackMule Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2011
    193
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    Izu Set 60: Dominic

    I got lazy. I also forgot to take a screenshot of all of the items. WHOOPS.

    Top 3 Scores

    1. vivafridge 215 (5/3/0)
    2. aloiivWizard 196 (0/1/1)
    3. JackMule 188 (6/2/1)
    3. ecuzillo 188 (0/0/3)
    3. Madeofwires 188 (0/0/3)

    Items

    Dwindling Brazier (4/3/2/1/0)
    Mystic Whisk (1/1/1/1/2) 0: When this hits a monster, teleport them to a random tile.
    Brutal Axe (1/1/2/2/2) I: When this kills a monster, curse a random monster. IV: Curse another monster upon a kill.
    Forged Sigil (1/1/1/1/1) 0: Grants three runes per level-up.
    Ancient Shield (1/1/2/2/2) IV: Your hero gains one maximum and current health.
    Arcane Hourglass (1/1/1/1/1) 0: When this hits a monster, spend mana to banish them for 16 turns. IV: When this hits a monster, curse them.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Doug84

    Doug84 Active Member

    Jun 9, 2014
    32
    0
    6
    Anyone able to get decently far on this one? I cant see high scores in my game.
     

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