Will iOS 8.0 really improve App Store discoverability?

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by DyabitGames, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. DyabitGames

    DyabitGames Member

    Mar 14, 2014
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    #1 DyabitGames, Jul 26, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
    Hello folks!

    As in the post subject, do you think that iOS 8.0 really improves App Store discoverability? To me, as indie game developer, most notable changes are App Previews and App Bundles, but... I think that app discoverability will remain the same.

    What do you think? Having more categories would help? Maybe a more serious review process? I have seen lots of clones of clones with super long titles filled with unrelated keywords being approved, or very low quality games... Sometimes I don't understand Apple review process.

    Steam has a "greenlight" phase, but I think it has pros and cons. Would that method be applicable to the App Store?

    Well, I would like to hear your thoughts.

    Regards!
     
  2. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Greenlight is silly and I hope apple never implements it.

    I doubt it will make the kind of improvements any of us are hoping for but putting a video on the profile will help a lot.

    I hope Apple does something about the super long titles. I believe they are trying and make exact match the highest (which for the super long titles will never be searched for).
     
  3. AxBattler

    AxBattler Well-Known Member

    May 8, 2012
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    It won't be there for long as Valve announced the intention of shutting it down (I think there isn't a date yet, but it will happen).
    It was a nice idea in theory but it has so many problems I hope to never see something like it on other platforms.
     
  4. OnlyJoe

    OnlyJoe Well-Known Member

    Sep 29, 2013
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    I think steam would do better with just their staff reviewing items, over the greenlight system. I mean its not hard to see if a game has a popular and active community, and so it then gets manually greenlit. The only time I use greenlight is to try and see what new indie games seem cool, but then it tries to make you rate some weird random games first.

    In terms of the app store improvements. Just the fact that they are thinking about this is good. Apple seems a lot more calculated with the risks they take on their platforms. So I don't think they are really going to ever try totally new things. That's not how they are, they "borrow" other ideas, and then given them more polish. But it is good that they are catching up to google play, and expanding the automatic suggestions.
     
  5. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    That system is the Apple system where staff pick games to be featured.

    I also hate they charge you to try and get greenlit. It creates an ugly ecosystem for developers and users I think. The same people who vote on greenlight aren't the same people who buy.
     
  6. BitStern

    BitStern Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2014
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    iOS 6 to 7 upgrade improved a lot regarding app discovery. I hope, they are going to improve it step by step.
     
  7. OnlyJoe

    OnlyJoe Well-Known Member

    Sep 29, 2013
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    #7 OnlyJoe, Jul 28, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
    Yeah, I guess that is the same as the apple system. For Apple it does seem to work, for the most part anyway. But then I guess with greenlight, steam is probably trying to give the community the feeling that they are participating in choosing, not just some big company calling all the shots. Maybe if they connected it to the community forum stuff a bit more, it might work better. I am kind of worried that they are going to dump the greenlight thing and replace it with nothing, so just any and every games go on steam. And it gets a bit flooded with the simple don't step on the white tile games.
     
  8. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    That is where the curated games get more exposure.

    Something I would like to see is "featured" as a checkbox which would allow you to narrow your search to only apps which have been featured at one point. This probably wouldn't be of advantage to an indie developer unless they were lucky enough to get featured but it would keep a historical record (or put a badge or something).


    I personally think free markets are fine. Let anyone submit.
     
  9. optimizemyapps.com

    optimizemyapps.com Active Member

    Jan 10, 2014
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    App Store Optimization Expert
    Hey Guys,
    Had written a Blog post couple of weeks ago about iOS 8 Search features & how it might effect the search functionality on the app store. If you feel this post is in violation of the forum rules then please remove it (wanted to share what i wrote as it pertains to this discussion)

    http://www.optimizemyapps.com/ios-8-features-app-store-optimization/
     
  10. DyabitGames

    DyabitGames Member

    Mar 14, 2014
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    A machine cannot do the job of a human

    You're enumerating the same things that were introduced by Apple and, as I said, I don't think any of those changes will improve app discoverability, mainly because those changes are focused on improving App Store navigation, user experience and purchase decision. Discoverability seems to remain the same.

    To me, the problem is that good apps (they're worth for some reasons) are mixed with bad apps (they aren't worth for some reasons), and a machine or algorithm will never distinguish between both without human help. It's a human task to mark an app as recommended so, in the end, I think the solution is in the review process.

    Right now, featuring apps is the closes concept, but it's a temporary solution that only last one week. After that period, the app sinks into the ocean forever because, as far as I know, App Store users can't search for apps that were featured time ago (please, correct me if I'm wrong). The ideal case would be this: search for a type of game (ex: shoot'em up) and filter search results by "Was Featured" tag. Also, sorting by release date, ratings, etc. would be appreaciated.

    In fact, if you try such search in iTunes on your Mac, you get 93 apps related to the search term "shoot'em up". Really? More than one million apps in the App Store, but only 93 shoot'em up games? I don't believe that. It's obvious that keywords are not enough. The App Store needs a much better, strongest and comprehensive category system.

    Now, with iOS 8, they're introducing permanent Editor's choice label on apps. But how many apps will be tagged as Editor's choice app? And can users filter search results by this tag? Is this the same as being featured?

    And, sincerely, if Apple wants quality App Store content, they should start removing all the crap and clones. Basically, they should start applying their review guidelines:

    What do you think? Do someone know something about the iOS 8 Editor's choice tag?
     
  11. Blackharon

    Blackharon Well-Known Member

    Mar 15, 2010
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    The Editor's Choice tag sounds great actually. Especially if you can filter your search results by it.
     
  12. Stroffolino

    Stroffolino Well-Known Member
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    Apr 28, 2009
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    There are two major challenges with discoverability.
    1. there are lots of new apps being released every week, many of them quite good
    2. there are ton of already-released apps, many of them quite good

    I don't see what "bad apps" has to do with discoverability. "bad apps" never get featured, they rarely chart, and are basically invisible. If all the "bad apps" suddenly disappeared from the appstore tomorrow, I doubt many people would even notice.

    Eliminating "bad apps" might make search results a little more useful for the average consumer. But would it matter? Everyone I've ever polled only uses search to find specific games. Besides, what's the definition of a "bad app"? Any app that hasn't been featured by Apple?
     
  13. DyabitGames

    DyabitGames Member

    Mar 14, 2014
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    A low quality app, a clone, etc. You can call it whatever you want, we all know what we're talking about.

    Please, search for the term "bird" on iTunes and count how many FlappyBird clones appear. Do you really need all that clones? And you know what? With that search, Badland appears on position #82. Fantastic. And also you'll find games that are not related with the word "bird", like a basketball one. Awesome search engine.

    Now search for "adventure". What do you get in the first place? A FlappyBird clone. Now search for "RPG", and you'll get the game 2048 in position #30. RPG? Sure? Finally, search for "space". You'll get anooooother flashlight app in #7. WTF?

    As an example, how can a user find Badland when it has disappeared from the front page after all the hype and press coverage? That's a "good app" or polished one, in my opinion, but how to find it now?

    If you remove all the clones and crappy apps, then discoverability improves because there are less apps. Is that simple. And, believe me, you'll notice it.

    But well, this is my humble personal opinion. We'll see what happens with iOS 8.
     
  14. optimizemyapps.com

    optimizemyapps.com Active Member

    Jan 10, 2014
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    App Store Optimization Expert
    Well your analysis is right to a certain extent. However, you have to realize that Apple is not a Search engine company (like Google with Play Store). So their App discoveribility improvements will be incremental in nature & will take some time to get refined.

    So what I think is apple is taking a step in the right direction in improving the search mechanism, although it might not be final solution

    Clones - Well if the App store fixes the App discoveribility problem & allows good apps to make good money i.e., developers actually get a good return on their time, effort & money. Then I think the clone problem will solve itself. Developers will automatically start concentrating on Apps with quality , which in turn will be found by users , so the supply of clones will decrease as the reward for good apps rises exponentially.

    As of now you cannot make money off the app store without a big budget or you make money by cloning Apps and making small amount of money per app & have many apps. People are in it to make money & they will do whatever rewards them. So I think if the discoveribility issue is fixed, the clone issue will fix itself
     
  15. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    While a game can be replicated quickly clones will exist.
     
  16. DyabitGames

    DyabitGames Member

    Mar 14, 2014
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    That's absolutely true.

    But nowadays you don't even need to clone a polished game to appear next to it in the App Store. All you have to do is use that game title in your own game title and, magic! Your game appears next to the famous one. And you can do that because, in an inexplicable Apple decision, they allow you to change your already released game title without further review.

    Try it yourself. Open iTunes on your Mac, go to the Games section and search for "Monument Valley". I have attached two images showing titles of games in 2nd and 3rd position, next to Monument Valley. Enjoy.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    I agree Apple needs to fix this ASAP. The long stupid names is insulting.
     
  18. bluesunshine

    bluesunshine Member

    Aug 12, 2014
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    Agreed. Worst aspect of the store.
     
  19. davilca

    davilca Active Member

    Aug 17, 2014
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    Hello people!

    I've been uploading some updates using the new iTunes Connect interface and it seems that now you cannot change the name of your app after it has been reviewed and approved, so say goodbye to those stupid long app names.

    Yay!
     
  20. Blackharon

    Blackharon Well-Known Member

    Mar 15, 2010
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    Game Designer for Ludia
    Canada
    You never could as far as I know
     

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