"No IAP, No Ads, No B******T"

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by unexpect3rd, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. unexpect3rd

    unexpect3rd Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2011
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    Mobile Game Developer (Fulltime as well as indie)
    Singapore

    What if I release a ad supported game with no option (no codes) to remove ad? Are there hacks out there that removes such ads?

    When I release for android I don't think twice, it's ad supported with no removal option, or I wont release there at all
     
  2. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    You can just turn wifi off so no ads are served.
     
  3. unexpect3rd

    unexpect3rd Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2011
    369
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    Mobile Game Developer (Fulltime as well as indie)
    Singapore
    True, the obvious has escaped me. But I guess anything goes, as long as I can't get a good game out that'll go viral / get featured / get mentioned, all monetization models are equals to zero.
     
  4. Tinytouchtales

    Tinytouchtales Well-Known Member

    Jul 24, 2012
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    16
    18
    Male
    Gamedesign
    Berlin, Germany
    Hey,

    was just reading through the forums finding this thread.
    This, maybe offensive for some devs, phrase in the description in my game comes from several things happened to me in my short App Store time.

    I was working full time for a big casual games company when i started making iOS Games. Having a lot of insights into both sides the F2P one and the indie one, i thought F2P could work for me as an indie too.
    This resulted in me making our indie game Zuki's Quest (a way better game than One Tap RPG) a free game with content iAp which got a major featuring in all stores. This resulted in 100.000 downloads in one week. With these ca. 100.000 dls we made a whooping $162 in total. $162 dollars. I wrote a big post about it here: Why the monetization in Zuki’s Quest has failed.

    After that we release another casual game Muffin Munch which had all the mean F2P stuff you would need. This game wasn't featured by Apple and never got any downloads at all.

    These two games failed gloriously. From there on i decided to go with the classic paid model and for One Tap RPG it worked. I just wrote a post on the stats here: Weekly-Update #25. We got a small featuring in New Games and we could generate 2870 downloads. At a price of $0.99 this results in a total of $2000 so far. Which is way more than almost all my other games.

    I don't think F2P is bad or wrong in any way, but as described here it just don't work if you don't have an existing Fanbase or massive marketing $$$.
     
  5. unexpect3rd

    unexpect3rd Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2011
    369
    2
    18
    Mobile Game Developer (Fulltime as well as indie)
    Singapore
    Oh hi there, glad you joined in.

    I dont think anyone would be offended. I feel that everything has their place. You scored better with paid than f2p, someone else might have scored better with an ad supported free game and yet there will be someone (usually the big boys) who's bringing in the dough using f2p model.

    With that said, I can sum that these are the 3 major models (I'm not even sure if there is more) of selling games, and I believe there isn't one model that will suit all kind of games. A simple game with simple graphics might be served better with ads, a well built game MAY do well with premium price, while a game with either high replayability / multiplayer competitiveness / longevity should do good with f2p.

    Even a well built game with premium price may bomb if it doesn't catch any eyes, so I would say marketing/exposure is as important as making a good game.
     
  6. Greyskull

    Greyskull Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2009
    5,588
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    Photographer/Social Sciences adjunct/sweet sweet l
    Fort Lauderdale
    Or use the app Weblock. Kills most ads before they are delivered (on wifi).
     
  7. unexpect3rd

    unexpect3rd Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2011
    369
    2
    18
    Mobile Game Developer (Fulltime as well as indie)
    Singapore
    so would any of you still make a simple game paid if it has easily clone-able gameplay? Since some of you are saying Ads can be easily by-passed and F2P needs a lot of criteria to be successful
     
  8. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    My point about ads being bypassed was more that on android was that you just have to accept some people will find a way around no matter what you do.

    Personally I think you just pick the model you think fits best and implement it.
     
  9. davilca

    davilca Active Member

    Aug 17, 2014
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    Hello folks!

    When you're starting as indie, it's a good idea to release projects often, so short development cycles are welcome. Also, paid model is better because, if some of your projects is featured, you'll see much more money than being featured with a free+ads model. And, seriously, do you really want to see ads from the competence into your games? Is that how you value your games and hard effort?

    As @unexpect3rd said before:

    I fully agree.

    People, if you're true indie developers, show love for your projects, make good paid or free-IAP games for Apple to feature, and forget about Ads. Nobody will consider you a serious developer if you show them ads. In fact, I regret having used ads in the past.
     
  10. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2009
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    Wellington
    This is hyperbole.

    While it is true use of ads can often result in negative reviews or comments on places like TouchArcade, the percentage of players that have a problem with ads is actually quite low.

    I can say that with confidence given most PikPok games have ads but still have strong reviews. On top of that, almost half our revenue comes from ads. I'm sure we are considered a "serious developer" too.


    As mentioned by some above, pick the business model that works best for the title. If you are developing for a niche, more hardcore audience, then a paid model can work well. If you are developing for the mass market and a more casual audience, then free to play is probably the way to go (and that includes considering ads).

    Either way, be careful not to compromise your business on the feedback of a vocal minority.
     
  11. Moonjump

    Moonjump Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2010
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    Game designer
    Lincoln, UK
    Yes, you are a "serious developer". A very good one.

    It is very interesting that so much of your money comes from ads. I'm sure a lot of work went into using them correctly. They can damage an app to the state where it becomes unplayable, while it has little effect on others. Any tips on what to do to get it right?

    I find it ironic that all these "no ads" comments are appearing on an ad-supported website.
     
  12. Xammond

    Xammond Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2014
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    UK
    It does seem that paid is what to aim for, I think everyone who is in it for the gamedev would agree.

    I intend to see how it goes with paid first then decide if a free version should follow later. Before I would make the app free for a while, but word didn't spread without a campaign.

    I think only TV adverts are super annoying, there's way too many of them like a third of the hour. If games used that much real estate they would be a joke! Well, you can imagine it...my next game 'inspires' a free with ads version, a popup says "paid or free?", if the user selects free then the game zooms out forming a surrounding black border with ads of "what you could've had" in true Bull's Eye (Brit quiz) style haha
     
  13. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2009
    938
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    Wellington
    Some basic high level tips

    - use ad mediation services such as Mopub and Sponsorpay to maximize the fill rate and eCPMs (revenue per ad) across all territories, rather than just relying on a single ad provider.

    - use the filtering options available in your ad solutions to tailor ad types towards what you think your audience will respond to e.g. filter out kids and educational game ads from your first person shooter title. This will increase the effectiveness of any ads shown, and increase eCPMs.

    - the expected "standard" these days is to turn off ads when somebody purchases any IAP. We do this on our more recent titles, and it seems more effective than an explicit "turn off ads" IAP.

    - pick the right moment to introduce ads into the experience. On our more recent titles, we are waiting between 10-40 minutes before showing ads for the first time, to give the player an opportunity to become invested in the title. You'll likely want to throttle your ads too so that the player isn't bombarded constantly, but only has the opportunity to see a new ad every few minutes.

    - choose slots to show ads after the player has completed something rather than when they show intent to do something e.g. after they complete a race rather than before they are about to start a race. Players are much more likely to click on and ad if it isn't "interrupting" them.

    - incentivized video is a great source of revenue that players actually seem to like (at the very least it doesn't seem to detract from the experience). We've had great revenue uplift from introducing incentivized video as a way for players to earn currency or lives, much more than any negative impact it has on IAP purchases.

    - reward offer services like Kiip can provide high value returns, and again we've found that players like these on balance as they are getting real world rewards or ingame currency/items.

    - offerwalls such as those offered by Tapjoy also seem to be a non offsensive revenue source that some minority of players leverage. While only a smaller number of players engage with this in our experience, the revenues do add up over time.

    - ad solutions that we are currently using include iAds, Admob/Adsense, Uplift, Chartboost, Millenial, MoPub, Sponsorpay, Applifier, Kiip, Mediabrix, Tapjoy and Tremor.


    In summary, you want to use a multifaceted solution that doesn't rely on any individual provider or type of ad, and is well considered in terms of how and where ads are introduced and placed.
     

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