Does iPhone 4 negate the disadvantage of building Universal apps?

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by EssentialParadox, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. EssentialParadox

    EssentialParadox Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    UK / Toronto
    I'm not sure if anyone else has thought about this yet, but does the iPhone 4's new Retina Display negate that #1 disadvantage of building universal apps; the increased size?

    I remember that being the most common complaint on this forum; that a Universal app with iPad support would make the iPhone app too big.

    But as we start building new iPhone apps for the 4x higher resolution to support iPhone 4 devices, it means we will need to include high-res artwork in a standard iPhone app anyway. In fact, 78% of the number of iPad pixels. So would there be much more of a size increase to just go all the way to iPad resolution artwork and make the app a Universal build?

    What are your thoughts on this? Obviously this won't be relevant to those iPad exclusive apps that are essentially a brand new game, but for those iPhone apps that are simply upscaled to the iPad, does this now make it a no-brainer to support universal apps?
     
  2. Rasterman

    Rasterman Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2010
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    Tampa, FL
    Not really, you must remember even though they are close in pixel size, they are vastly different in real size. So a 200x200 button the iphone4 is going to be tiny, but on the ipad going to be huge, they are not compatible.
     
  3. EssentialParadox

    EssentialParadox Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    That's a very good point, but doesn't that only apply to buttons and other interface elements?
     
  4. NickFalk

    NickFalk Well-Known Member

    I think EssentialParadox is on to something. When developing for the new iPhone you will already have to create the resources in a larger resolution. The graphical resources (+ sound) is (normally) the most memory-demanding resources anyway.

    But: The big question is probably how many users who will upgrade their devices to iOS4. If the pickup rate is anything but stellar it would probably be wise to develop for an earlier version of the OS. At least from a strictly commercial point of view...
     
  5. jak56

    jak56 Well-Known Member

    wellif ios4 will be free, then i doubt many won't update- it's even already been jailbroken!
     
  6. EssentialParadox

    EssentialParadox Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    I wonder if it's possible to put Retina Display artwork inside a 2.2.1 app and have it use the larger assets on iPhone 4, or whether it'll need to be explicitly built as an iOS4 app. I know Steve Jobs said all text and Interface Builder components would be scaled up automatically for the Retina display, but he asked devs to include higher res artwork too, to take advantage of the higher resolution for iPhone 4 owners. Whether or not it would also need to be converted to an iOS4 app, I don't know.

    Although, what Jak says is a good point: iOS4 is completely free for all iPhone and iPod touch owners, so the uptake should be quite good. However, we also have another issue because it's not supported at all on 1st gen devices. Is it time to ditch 1st gen devices entirely and go forward with entirely iOS4 apps, or is it still worth having support of OS3? (or even 2.2.1?)
     
  7. Uptown Arts

    Uptown Arts Well-Known Member

    Since the existing textures will still be displayed at their intended resolution on the retina display, I wonder how much improvement there would be in making the textures bigger. I think I'll have to wait until I get my hands on one and see.

    I've had this discussion in photography forums when people geek out over resolution specs: nobody walks up to a painting in a gallery and says "wow, that's really sharp."
     
  8. Toco Games

    Toco Games Well-Known Member

    the iphone has already a very high pixel density and the pixel density of the new iphone 4 is crazy IMO! You will need to get very close to the screen or use a loupe to tell the difference!
    For the iphone 4 you dont need higher resolution graphics but for the ipad it makes a lot of sense.
     
  9. Mondae

    Mondae Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2010
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    Perv, why do you care?
    Actually, you can not tell different pixels apart from a normal eye because it has a retina display of 326 ppi (pixels per inch) above the human level of 300 ppi, so it is impossible to see individual pixels.
     
  10. ScottColbert

    ScottColbert Well-Known Member



    http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/06/iphone-4-retina/
     
  11. Toco Games

    Toco Games Well-Known Member

    Yea that density is really crazy! how close do a normal eye need to get to the display of a current iphone to tell pixels apart? :)
     
  12. sticktron

    sticktron Well-Known Member

    I can see the pixel grid from 6" away which is where I'm typing from now.
     
  13. Fleabag323

    Fleabag323 Well-Known Member

    Dec 19, 2008
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    That's the pixel level of your computer unless you're using a prototype. ;)
     
  14. redbotsoftware

    redbotsoftware Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2009
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    iPhone App Developer
    SF Bay Area
    I think the new resolution of the iPhone will make it easier for us to make universal apps, but there is still a big difference on how you would layout an app on the iPhone versus the iPad.
    The good apps on the iPad are ones that simulate real world things, but that are behind or under a glass surface.
     
  15. Toco Games

    Toco Games Well-Known Member

    #16 Toco Games, Jun 13, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2010
    A pc display is at 72ppi and it has been that for a very long time. All the iphones were already higher then this and i dont see a good reason in having it even higher with the iphone 4. The downside is that the devices hardware will have to handle much more pixels which will result in worse performance. Of course the new iphone has also better hardware, but i would prefer making more possible with the graphics card instead of just adding lots more pixels.
     
  16. EssentialParadox

    EssentialParadox Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    I think that's easy to say until we actually see the iPhone 4 screen. According to those who've seen it (mainly journalists), it's supposedly incredible to look at. When I look at most of my device screens, the DPI is a little over 100 but I can clearly see the individual pixels, and it means small text can look undesirable. I expect buttons and text especially to look very good on the Retina display. I think you can do a lot more as a designer when that barrier of having to design around pixels is removed.
     
  17. slipster216

    slipster216 Active Member

    Dec 3, 2009
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    Thing is, I'm not sure it's worth supporting the extra resolution in many cases. It's going to be four times the fill rate cost, and from what we know the GPU is the same as on the 3GS, only the processor is faster. That's a massive decrease in processing power to make things look a little more crisp. And from what we've heard, and text done using native drawing will be rendered in high res on the new phone, and text is where you would notice it the most.

    So unless your app has loads of GPU to spare, it might make sense to stick with the old resolution.
     
  18. EssentialParadox

    EssentialParadox Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    Fair point. Something worth checking on the iPhone 4 hardware.
     
  19. Moonjump

    Moonjump Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2010
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    Game designer
    Lincoln, UK
    I welcome the higher resolution screen as a user. Look at a lower case "e" on an app name to see something that would benefit from the Retina display.

    As a developer in means more fragmentation and work. But at least I'm not developing for Android.
     

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