Zombie Fortress - Survival Tower Sim

Discussion in 'Upcoming iOS Games' started by hyung, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    I really like how there is always something to do in Tiny Tower, and we're trying to do the same thing in Zombie Fortress.

    The business guys haven't yet figured out how generous to be with IAP currency. Everyone definitely wants to be generous with it, and Tiny Tower has proved it can work, but I'll admit, it's quite a risk.

    Personally, I like to think that as long as we make a game that's actually fun, it won't matter too much how much free IAP currency there is.
     
  2. gunxsword

    gunxsword Well-Known Member

    Dec 24, 2010
    2,556
    0
    0
    Sydney
    (Did you mean "how little free IAP currency there is"?
    The bold parts sounds like Glu, Infinity Blade (I and II) and various Gameloft freemium releases for a second. Sure they were all fun, enjoyable and interesting, but the first example's abhorrent; second example's 'widely requested' *cough* feature and third example's restrictive and almost Glu like IAP are quite... unwelcoming.

    TT wasn't just fun - it was extremely player friendly with dishing out IAP currency at a comfortable rate. What you decide to do is your decision.


    I'm all of a sudden not-so-excited for the game anymore.
     
  3. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    Ah, sorry about that, I wasn't very clear.

    What I meant was, in my personal opinion, I think the amount of money a game makes is based a lot more on how fun it is, and not so much on how much free IAP it gives away.

    So hopefully we'll be able to have IAP similar to Tiny Tower :)
     
  4. GoofyJmaster.

    GoofyJmaster. Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2011
    2,869
    0
    0
    College Student
    Ohio, USA
    #44 GoofyJmaster., Feb 20, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
    At the beginning, you guys said this would be different from TT. Could you share some of those details?

    I personally an not a fan of Tiny Towers. Like I said previously, it felt like a cheap sim. I just don't get the overall appeal of games like that or Farmville.

    From my understanding, as of now, there'll be enemies attacking your tower, and you'll have to deal with them accordingly. You will also need to build your tower, but do the wait times = real time? I feel like if this is more game than sim, the wait times should be scaled down. If time isn't scaled down, will there be cool/epic things that are required of you to do during the day?

    Ultimately, the thing with TTs is that I could care less about running a hotel. It's just not fun and is too close to reality. If I want to play a "close to reality" sim, I'll play a Tycoon (which I'm not the biggest fan of) or sports manager sim. Or I can play something like KoDP or Civilization. The Sims...

    I could care less about the menial tasks of cleaning up someone's crap in bathroom #4 or the spillage on aisle 3. * over exaggeration* Building a hotel and dealing with the people that rent the rooms just isn't fun IMO.

    Is there a way to lose the game or are there major setbacks?
     
  5. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    I think the biggest gameplay difference between our game and TT is that TT basically has only 2 different types of rooms (housing and service). We have lots of different kinds of rooms, and they play differently.

    For example, we have a greenhouse room where you plant crops and an animal pen where you raise animals. And we have a "scavenge" room where you load out a team of survivors to go scavenge for supplies. And we have a workshop where you can combine items to make more powerful items.

    I know it might turn off a lot of people, but there isn't an explicit way to lose. We considered it during the game design phase, but we ultimately made the decision not to do it. However, we do have PvP going on. Hopefully that will be motivation enough not to lose!
     
  6. GoofyJmaster.

    GoofyJmaster. Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2011
    2,869
    0
    0
    College Student
    Ohio, USA
    Do the plants serve as a way to bring in new food? Do the animals serve as food as well? Can they be used to make clothing or other items?

    What's the end purpose? That's something I never understood with TT or other similar games. Are there achievements to challenge you throughout the game?

    I mean, all in all, I'm liking the overall idea. It does seem more like a game than TT, so that's a plus for me.

    Oh yeah, if there's no way to lose than maybe there should be major setbacks included in the game; instead of only coming from losing a PvP battle.
     
  7. undeadcow

    undeadcow Well-Known Member

    Dec 4, 2010
    9,493
    2
    36
    Houston, TX
    I don't understand the issue if how generous to be with free IAP; why not just charge a fair price for the download and forget about IAP? One way to stand apart from TT is to not clone tveir freemium business model.

    What's the status of Rogue Element?
     
  8. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    The main reason I've heard to do free + IAP instead of charging a fair price upfront is that the fair price is different for everyone. Some people might really get into a game, and they want to pay a lot more than the average person. I'm not sure which side I stand on it, but those seem to be the facts.

    On a previous game I worked on, I've seen first-hand that most people will play for free, but there are enough outliers paying $100+ that we have to consider them as well. And I've heard that Zynga designs their games around the Zynga Black crowd, players who spend $10,000+.
     
  9. Bparker

    Bparker Well-Known Member

    Aug 5, 2011
    280
    0
    0
    A beta tester at home
    Atlantic, IA
    So far this game is seeming really good. I can't wait to see what else is going to be added.

    I like the concept of different buildings being able to do different things. Do you think you are going to add a fighting element where you send survivors to fight a zombie horde to win terriroy back and more building space?

    Keep doing what you are doing on this game and I'm sure it will be amazing.;)
     
  10. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    Here's an early look:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    Personally, I think having a more complicated game is okay, as long as players don't feel overwhelmed at any point. The trick is to gradually add more features as the game progresses.
     
  12. GoofyJmaster.

    GoofyJmaster. Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2011
    2,869
    0
    0
    College Student
    Ohio, USA
    Personally, I want a more complex game. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but TT is a disgrace to sims--obviously my opinion. Plus, running a hotel just wasn't fun.

    Are the animals and food that you grow going to play a direct role in the game?

    Will there be GC achievements?

    Will the time be scaled down or real time?

    Will there be major setbacks for doing things wrong or losing PvP?

    If you can't answer these, that's fine.
     
  13. undeadcow

    undeadcow Well-Known Member

    Dec 4, 2010
    9,493
    2
    36
    Houston, TX
    The whole freemium/IAP thing is such a turn off I don't think I'll be looking forward to Zombie Tower anymore. Good luck.
     
  14. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    Awesome, thanks for the feedback. I'll bring it up at our next team meeting, and we'll see what we can change :)
     
  15. gunxsword

    gunxsword Well-Known Member

    Dec 24, 2010
    2,556
    0
    0
    Sydney
    Energy!?
    I'm out.

    LEVELS!?
    Facepalm. Just another freemium game.
     
  16. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    #56 hyung, Feb 21, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
    I have to admit, I didn't know that people hated energy so much. I'll see what I can do to change or get rid of it!
     
  17. Noman

    Noman Well-Known Member

    Nov 19, 2009
    595
    0
    0
    I think it's just a symptom of the problem, you know, a legitimately impressive looking game that seems to be spoiled by turning it into "just another freemium game". Don't get too discouraged, but this is truly disappointing.
     
  18. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    Fair enough, thanks. We definitely want to avoid making "just another freemium game", and everyone's feedback has been helping a lot.

    One thing I've noticed so far is that we (meaning our dev team) have been so close to the details, it's been easy for us to lose track of the big picture.
     
  19. gunxsword

    gunxsword Well-Known Member

    Dec 24, 2010
    2,556
    0
    0
    Sydney
    Levels aren't bad but most of them are done poorly, either in terms of poor/pointless unlocks for the current level, uneven difficulty scaling, lack of useful unlocks. Do it well and you'll have an addicting freemium game where players constantly play because it's FUN to level up (not where it becomes an obligation to overcome an obstacle).

    On PvP. I don't like it in a freemium for many reasons:
    1. Increases competition, esp when you can 'pay to win' or degenerate into a state where you HAVE to pay to compete. This situation is worse if there's no way to stay out of it (eg those kingdom building games).
    2. The problem worsens if PvP is a major component of the game (kingdom building games). Refer to point 1.
    3. Assuming there's more functions than PvP, eg. social functions, then people who choose not to socialize with other people in freemium games will miss out on lots of, worst case scenario, essential items for progression or just high value items.
    4. In many cases, includes mandatory Wi-Fi/3G connection. I'm sure I'm not the only one without a constant connection for my device.

    Need I say more? Tiny Towers was blissful because it was simple, elegant and most importantly, a casual sandbox game (Goofy why did you call it an sim?) that allowed players to play and progress at their own pace, secluded from the world.

    Please, this game is starting to sound like JUST another freemium game with a constant stream of activities to do 'like Tiny Tower' than a 'zombie themed Tiny Tower'. This game is clearly closer to the generic former than the legendary latter.
     
  20. hyung

    hyung Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    119
    0
    0
    Outside of Tiny Tower, what other (non-action) freemium games do you like?

    We just had a team meeting to talk about energy, and we pretty much agree with you. The consensus seemed to be that energy sucks because it's artificially added just to get players to keep inserting coins.

    It also struck me that Tiny Tower has an energy mechanic, but it's disguised. Instead of waiting on an energy timer, players wait for rooms to restock. The differences are that your "max energy" increases every time you get a new room, and waiting to restock seems to make more intuitive sense than waiting on a generic energy timer.

    The big question is of course, can we think of a way to earn "enough" money from the game without having to add something tacky? We're working on it.
     

Share This Page