Developers: YOUR thoughts on game music

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by Ritchie Blackmore, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. Ritchie Blackmore

    Dec 3, 2010
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    Hello developers,

    As a bit of research for a future product I would like to receive your input and thoughts on music in an app/game.

    What resources do you use to obtain your music? Is it a paid source? Do you hire a composer?
    What role does music play in your app/game?

    I have begun the planning stages of a very affordable music package that would offer high quality royalty free music with frequent post-purchase updates and features.
    I want to make a "starter pack", if you will, that indie devs could purchase for under $100 and have enough music to create their first project and start another.
    Having been made redundant from work a few days ago I am starting to realise even more so now how precious budgets are.

    I am curious what would developers want and expect from such a package?
     
  2. waigo21

    waigo21 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2009
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    I'm a developer, from a small studio.
    For us, we can find simple sound effects easily online.
    However, the background music are more complicated.
    I have no idea how many background music in your $100 package? How long they are.
     
  3. Moonjump

    Moonjump Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2010
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    Game designer
    Lincoln, UK
    Are you doing unique music for each developer for $100? That sounds like a very good deal if it is.

    I'm lucky enough to get CoLD SToRAGE to do the music on my next game, whose work includes Lemmings, Wipeout, Formula 1, MTV Music Generator, Shadow of the Beast 2 + 3, eJay and many more. Having a name in video games helps a lot to differentiate a composer.

    mobygames.com lists a Ritchie Blackmore as having worked on the Guitar Hero games. Is that you? I could see you getting a lot of work with a credit like that.
     
  4. ElectricGrandpa

    ElectricGrandpa Well-Known Member

    Sep 5, 2009
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    Game Developer
    Brampton, Ontario
    That's an interesting idea, but I'm not really sure what you're offering for $100. Why would I buy a pack of generic music for $100, when I can go to a stock music site and get a specific song that matches my game for $25 or so?
     
  5. swiftest

    swiftest Well-Known Member

    May 18, 2009
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    We hired composer Sean Beeson and created a soundtrack for our game. The music is used everywhere in our game especially during combat. For us, it was worthwhile to spend a significant amount of our budget on music. I felt it was more important to establish mood via music than the 3D models which we will upgrade down the road.

    I've seen others offer what you're attempting, and it may be successful for some casual games especially if there's a lot of variety and the quality is great. But like ElectricGrandpa said, you're competing against the stock music sites which offer greater selection albeit at a slightly higher price. If you're new to game music composition, I would suggest working one-on-one with indie developers to build up your portfolio first.
     
  6. schplurg

    schplurg Well-Known Member

    Do you have any samples, or a website? Dave 2 will have some music in it, although I already have a source for that.

    On a side note, I personally hate video game music 99% of the time. Every time I get a new game (iPhone, PC, whatever) the first thing I do is hit the sound options and turn music off :)
     
  7. Luke Kellett

    Luke Kellett Well-Known Member

    Jun 7, 2011
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    Indie iPhone Game Developer
    Melbourne, Australia
    Well as others have stated, stock music sites do offer a lot of variety. Though it can take quite a lot of time and effort to find the right fit!

    So as a dev, I would be looking for music that is tailored to my specific needs rather than off the shelf. This is exactly what I will be doing for future projects.

    Is this what your offering or are you thinking more of a stock music type site? Because the stock has been done already, but what might be a good halfway point would be to offer stock music that can be customized to a game/devs specific needs!
     
  8. Kyena

    Kyena Active Member

    I am also wondering if it's tailored or a pre-made pack.
    Funny enough, we find it harder to find someone who can create good sound effects than someone who can do soundtracks and themes.

    Specially since sound effects have to be tailored more carefully to a game or app and it can take way too much time to look through stock sites.

    Additionally, I find it sad how low freelance musicians have to go with their fees/prices. The market seems to be very over-saturated with composers wanting to work for developers/games and movies.
     
  9. spacecowgoesmoo

    spacecowgoesmoo Well-Known Member

    Sep 4, 2008
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    Composer / Level Designer @ Bovinedragon Software
    Los Angeles, USA
    #9 spacecowgoesmoo, Sep 22, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
    Agreed. Most of the composers that I see out there are selling themselves for less than the prices of the stock music quoted in this thread. Even if you are an absolute beginner, if you can deliver a decent product then you should be charging at least $100/minute. Not $50 per track, or $500 for a 30 minute OST, or 'plz let me work for free'.
     
  10. DomAjean

    DomAjean Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    #10 DomAjean, Sep 23, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
    I'm a composer and the other day I was close to post a new thread about how I am tired to see talented composers giving away free music tracks...or practically free.

    Seriously, to all composers out there, stop giving away music, for the love of god...I am trying to pay the bills with this and when I see that, it is just like...wow...really?!

    There are a lot of talented composers on this forum, and they deserve to get decent amount of money in exchange of their hard work!

    Dominic
     
  11. gamecomposer

    gamecomposer Well-Known Member

    Jun 13, 2009
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    This is just my take on it, sorry for hijacking your thread!!

    I have lost more gigs this year to composers working for free or super cheap than any other year. When I charge the rates I do, I am not trying to be greedy I am simply charging what I know I need to make to live. I don't run a super big studio with 10 employees, and in fact it is quite the opposite. Composers cannot live off of making $100 a minute as a wor-for-hire, or if they can they are either selling you poorly produced music (which they rushed) or eat nothing but canned beans :D

    Like most composers that are trying to stay gainfully employed in this field, I work from the spare bedroom by myself, on a modest setup, and count on every gig that comes through. My kids play 10 feet from where I work and have to be constantly exposed to whatever I am writing haha.

    There are zillions of iOS games out there that need custom music, the hard part is just finding the developers, convincing them that they need custom music, and selling it to them for a price they can stomach. I typically offer payment plans that allows a developer to pay over the course of a few months (or longer) instead of expecting them to pay a one-time flat fee, which has helped my business significantly.

    Since there are a hundreds/thousands of developers out there, and lots of money, the market is becoming heavily saturated with composers because it is a lot easier to find work (either paid, free, or low paying) as a young composer in this field then what it was five years ago when I was trying to break in. More opportunities=more composers :)

    The difficult thing about setting rates, or trying to establish a base set of rates is that the budgets of indie developers vary WIDELY. In other areas of game development, you can look at a company see it has 100 employees, is using X/Y/Z technology (which they paid for) and know that you can ask to be paid 1500 a minute.

    With indie developers, many times they are the programmers, the artists, the animators, sometimes the sound designers, voice actors, and composers haha. What you are asking to be paid isn't always a part of their "budget" it is money coming straight from their pocketbooks. This is why I never set my rates in stone when it comes to indie developers. You never know what one has, needs, or wants to spend. Everything I do these days is highly negotiable and I have found that the developers are really good to me.

    Again, sorry for hijacking your thread!
     
  12. DomAjean

    DomAjean Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    I think this conversation is really important, even for the thread poster!

    Me too, lately, developers have been really great to me. I was just honest about my needs, and I was asking if there was any possibility for that amount of money, payable at the half and the end of development in 2 payments.

    I think if you are honest and you show that you will work a lot of hours for someone, he will understand.

    But now with the arrival of hundreds of composers, surfing around to find contracts, it is hard to keep a standard in what you charge for your work, since a lot of sound designer just....give away their work, or for peanuts...seriously guys, how can you live with peanuts?

    Sorry to hijack your thread, I don't want to dilute your thread subject, but I think it is time for some changes around these corners...

    I just hope these messages will be herd, until then, I got music to do. :)

    Cheers,

    Dominic
     
  13. #13 John Francis, Sep 23, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
    I compose all the music for my game and I'm generally unhappy. My problem is I have a bit of a composition background and relatively high standard but not the budget to make the demands.

    I use Logic just becuase it was easy and the Orchestration audio units would suffice for my game.

    I'm always happy for tips and suggestions.

    For a sample I wrote the music for our trailer:


     
  14. TsvetoslavKrastev

    Sep 24, 2011
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    For Treasure Panda, I have spent around $250 for game music and sound effects and that included 3 custom made music tracks and a bunch of sound effects. I think the game music is really important in a game, and really does set the mood, if you have a starting package for like even $150 depending on how many songs, fx then that would be a good deal.
     
  15. Luke Kellett

    Luke Kellett Well-Known Member

    Jun 7, 2011
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    Indie iPhone Game Developer
    Melbourne, Australia
    You're right, most indie developers are struggling to make a dime and as such dont spend much on outsourcing. Even when it's worth the money.

    I really think this is indicative of the $1 app effect, which most devs are not coming to grips with very well...
     
  16. BazookaTime

    BazookaTime Well-Known Member

    When most games sell for $1 it is hard to justify spending a huge part of the budget on sound/music when there is so much of it out there that is free.

    I paid for an original song once, I highly doubt I would do it again.
     
  17. Sinecure Industries

    Sinecure Industries Well-Known Member

    Heh, I generally play everything on mute so it's a moot point for me :p
     
  18. jpswensen

    jpswensen Well-Known Member

    Jan 8, 2011
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    Postdoctoral Associate
    Pullman, WA
    I realize I am the loser in this thread who uses stock music, but I have limited resources (as a one man dev shop who hasn't had a big app success and am a starving grad student with a family). I use stockmusic.net. I used some of their music for both my FoundIt game and Escape from Stonehenge. The songs are about $30 each. I end up spending a bit of time listening to song after song after song to see which one fits my game, but they are "OK".
     
  19. Luke Kellett

    Luke Kellett Well-Known Member

    Jun 7, 2011
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    Indie iPhone Game Developer
    Melbourne, Australia
    I've use Stockmusic.net in the past as well, it did take a LONG time to find something suitable though. Even then I think custom would have been better, but for $30 it's a downright bargain!

    I think custom would be better for user engagement and more overall depth in a game. It doesn't have to be the next #1 chart topping track, most game music is pretty basic. But it's the mood it sets that is hard to find in stock music I think.
     

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