Does anyone think the mobile game apps are dying?

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by Devster3, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Devster3

    Devster3 Active Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    Just curious,

    Do any of the developers or players out there, believe that the mobile game apps could be dying? Meaning decrease in people searching for new phone games to play?

    Or do you think the opposite and the market is still growing and people crave new games?

    Just gathering some thoughts.
     
  2. Yeah, definitely.

    The trend to freemium, the constant bait and switches from premium to freemium with no compensation, constant early adopter blues after 3 days, $100 inapps, flamewars over stuff on TA, so many apps going free after a month, etc, are making a huge negative impact on ios gaming.

    Seems like most of the major publishers are forcing their devs to make everything freemiums with $100 apps. But, at least some of the indies are still trying to do it right.

    Games like Whirl the Squirrel, Lums HD, Baby Nom Nom, Plasma Sky, and many more still give me hope.

    But yeah, it is discouraging.
     
  3. flathead

    flathead Active Member

    May 16, 2013
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    Mobile gaming is not declining. We aren't anywhere near the peak, either.

    Tablets are outselling PCs and smart phones are still selling like crazy. This industry is expected to grow significantly over the next 10 years.

    I disagree.

    1. Why is the freemium trend bad?
    2. Bait and switch from premium to fremium doesn't prevent the gaming market as a whole from increasing. Just because you get burned buying a premium game doesn't mean you quit gaming all together.
    3. $100 in apps doesn't stop people from wanting to play games, they may be annoyed or uninstall that particular game, but that doesn't mean they will never download another game.
    4. Games going free, as noted above, doesn't stop people from playing other mobile games.
     
  4. Rainier

    Rainier Well-Known Member

    Apr 16, 2012
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    Definitely not declining, since the number of end users keeps climbing. The part that's killing it is the pricing to freemium (the race to zero), and app discovery is just very, very difficult for almost everyone coming into the game that doesn't have a lot of marketing dollars. The system is on the verge of being broken, if it isn't already.
     
  5. McCREE

    McCREE Well-Known Member

    Aug 26, 2010
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    No. 90% of people playing mobile games don't know that places like this exist, that sales happen, that IAP's are frowned upon, that freemium is an issue, etc, etc, etc.

    Anyone concerned about these kind of 'problems' should take a deep breath, recognize the plethora of quality titles showing up and having success outside the .99 - 2.99 price point and rest assured that the future is bright.
     
  6. I never said anything about market share. On that end, I agree with you, the future is bright for ios, I believe that ios gaming will grow, especially on Tablets, and especially as consoles via the Apple joysticks and HDMI.

    I am an optimist on that as shown by my title and the HDMI thread.

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=173262

    So I agree with you, my comments about the decline had to do with other things that I had mentioned, for the past 6 months, I do believe apps have kinda gone downhill with the things I have mentioned, which has carried over to TA in flamewars and the such. I am not disagreeing that Freemium models are not successful or make money, or even that they are bad.

    Well, I and probably the majority of gamers, don't like freemiums, 8 hour wait timers, $100 inapps, bait and switch which should be illegal cause you buy a game, then then they make it freemium causing you to have to buy it again.

    On the issues of making games free after a short time, or early adopter blues, yeah, in a sense you are right, but you do have to realize too that many non hardcore gamers when they hear that stuff about most games going free, stop buying games and just wait for frees. And the loyal early adopters that support the cause are hurt.

    Anyway, this is my last post on this topic, I don't want to get into a discussion about alot of this stuff, it's flamed all over the forum, I still am optimistic about ios gaming, and I will always look for the gems that are out there, even if they are freemiums. And when the apple joystick comes out and my ipad can be used as a console, I will smile. :)
     
  7. CharredDirt

    CharredDirt Well-Known Member

    I'm not wild at the freemium trend but right now but mostly it's freemium or die. The only exception is if you're a large publisher with an ad budget or you're an indie and get great exposure/articles written about you. People just don't want to plunk down hard cash on a game they know nothing about.

    And freemium doesn't always have to be bad. Tiny tower did it right, you can totally play the game and have a great time without ever spending a dollar.
     
  8. Silvanis

    Silvanis Well-Known Member

    Nov 2, 2012
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    co-owner of Silver Moonfire
    #8 Silvanis, Aug 8, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
    I would argue that we will see indies pull out of the iOS space, just because it's too difficult to be discovered. At least as far as devoting themselves to iOS. The next games Silver Moonfire works on will be multiplatform with a PC focus, simply because there are a lot more avenues to get attention that way.

    So are iOS apps dying? I think there will be a decrease in the number of releases, but given that the market is over-saturated with a single store model, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It sucks for little guys like me that are trying to break in, but established indies and larger companies should still find good money in iOS.
     
  9. DonnyDJ76

    DonnyDJ76 Well-Known Member

    Nov 1, 2011
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    I'm heading to sleep now, but this is certainly an excellent topic of discussion I'm going to follow. Between premium, freemium, in app purchases, new devices being released every year, new consoles being released during the holidays, there's plenty to discuss.

    It just irks me when games such as 'Splosion Man are originally $3 and the price is slashed to $1, with the addition of IAPs.

    Another example is Chillingo. I used to love Chillingo, but after being one of the only people to pay $1 for Kamikaze Pigs, before the promotion codes, and after the sudden drop to free, I wonder. It's not the dollar;it's the principle.

    Independent developers need to be strongly supported.
     
  10. Foursaken_Media

    Foursaken_Media Well-Known Member
    Patreon Indie

    Personally, I kind of think freemium can be a "trap" for indies... they look at the top of the charts and hear about Clash of Clans pulling in a million a day, and get suckered into thinking that's the only way to go these days.

    Heck, how many successful, quality indie freemium games have been released this year? I can't think of one off the top of my head to be honest... I can name a ton of successful indie paid games... actually we've had 2 of them just this year (Block Fortress and Heroes & Castles).

    Also, from what I'm seeing, the trend is that there are indeed more premium games, and prices are actually going UP. Look at the top 50 games and you'll see a host of $1.99, $2.99, and even $3.99+ games. Granted there are still a lot of $.99 games, but just on a week to week basis I'm seeing more and more games daring to release at above $.99 and actually chart well! I also think that while freemium is indeed the flavor of the week (or year), more and more devs will realize the free charts are complete hit or miss, and move back to paid. Heck, we've already had a ton of post-mortems on great free games that have failed, like Punch Quest and Gasketball, and have seen some freemium games even switch to paid (NimbleQuest for ex). I've even seen a lot of high profile games with HUGE 20-30 person teams release freemium games that are not looking like they're doing so hot...

    Anyway, onto the original topic, I definitely don't see mobile games dying. Are they evolving? Of course... they've already evolved heavily, several times over, over the course of just a few years. But imo there has never been more high quality games being offered for every type of player... you have more "core games" getting released now than before (granted still not a ton of them, but you've got a lot more at least), you've got better, more polished casual games now than before, and heck, whether people like it or not there is now a slew of high quality free games for the HUGE crowd of people that don't want to pay anything for games. Maybe people don't remember when 3 years ago it was like "Fart App" city up and down on the free charts :p
     
  11. Appvism

    Appvism Well-Known Member

    Feb 9, 2013
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    I agree with this... even with a $1 "premium" game sales are hard!

    Personally, i also don't think mobile games is dying also - but the app store, whether iOS, Android or whatever, is overcrowded and oversaturated and getting your app/game found and downloaded is tough especially for a newbie.

    Strangely however, i do find myself playing less mobile games now then say a few months ago, and have actually gone back to my xbox more. As a result, i've searched for and downloaded less games now than i use to.

    Cheers
     
  12. bigrand1

    bigrand1 Well-Known Member

    Apr 23, 2010
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    No, not dying at all! The opposite, in fact! It's growing exponentially as more and more users join in the fray. Console games are becoming redundant and stale. There's no real variety in terms of genres anymore. Just the same-old same-old FPS's and war games. More and more people are letting their consoles collect dust as they discover the incredible-ness and convenience of mobile gaming and apps for everything under the sun! It's off the hook and nowhere near it's peak at this point. Freemium aspect is a pain in the ass and most of us despise it, but hopefully it's just a hic-cup and will pass after awhile. The future of mobile gaming is rosy indeed!
     
  13. Yeah, I agree oversaturation is definitely hard on newbie indies since their games get no love from the major review sites. So finding the gems out there is tough for people who don't read forums and such.

    And I agree with you, seems like a lot of freemium games out there, they interest me for 30 min, then often get frustrated by either paywalls, wait timers, $100 cars, add, etc. Normally a lot of these games would probably hold my interest more. I kinda wish freemium meant free to try and buy an unlock to buy. That would prevent illegal bait and switches too.

    They need a new term for that, maybe free to try'z, but anyway, some kind of a lite/premium mix I suppose.

    Seemed like the market like 6 months was alot better, but the rush for freemium clearly began, and I too hope the trend will change, and ios games are designed more for gaming rather than to squeeze gamers.

    I think it'll change back somewhat, or maybe free to try'z games will become more popular too.
     
  14. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
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    Isle of Wight, UK
    #14 Rubicon, Aug 8, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
    I made an in-depth blog post about all this recently that got featured on gamasutra:
    http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/PaulJohnson/20130702/195491/Ranting_about_Free_to_Play_its_not_what_you_think.php

    Most of the many comments were negative or in disagreement, but they're just expressing personal opinion in the face of some pretty stark and not at all nice facts that can't really be argued with.

    What I didn't mention in my piece was what happens if freemium doesn't work either, but I think I have the answer to that - a return to fart apps in a couple of years when the current crop of new developers realised what us "second generation" lot already know - generally speaking you can't make a decent living making premium mobile apps. Even with one that's bafta nominated, pardon the hubris.

    We're trying a third way for our next release, which is "pay what you want". You get a lot of stuff for genuinely free, can play with it all you want without timers and walls and other shit people don't like. But if you want more choices in the game, ie the full experience, then you have to pay for them. And more than a dollar.

    Problem with this is, there's only certain types of game where that might work well.
     
  15. Devster3

    Devster3 Active Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    Based on what most of you are saying, it seems we are still climbing this mountain to the peak.

    I am personally a developer and we are working on a casual game with no fermium model or micro transactions because I believe they take away from the experience. I want to give people a fun game with the classic style of you have to play to unlock characters.

    Certain games should be fermium and based on their style they work. But some games should just be stone right. So Luckily they are both win win.

    So I'm hoping that this style will still work. And Im glad to know you think mobile gaming is still rising. because just a small percentage of the total will go along way.

    I also want to add that I know other markets are growing globally for mobile games. Does anyone have any growth charts of tablet and phone sales in different regions?
     
  16. Razoric

    Razoric Well-Known Member

    #16 Razoric, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
    Personally I hate most F2P games because the game design is most likely built around a business model instead of, you know, gameplay. I hate being constantly reminded that I got the game for free and with just a little money I can have a little bit more fun. That's not how I want to play.

    It's funny as a hobbyist developer it's so easy to start thinking about the F2P trap and how fast it changes your entire game design up front. It really does poison the well IMO.

    And to answer the OP... I don't think mobile games is in decline. I can't believe how well my little game is still selling after two years. There are millions of people searching the app store at any given time looking for something to buy.
     
  17. 8-Bit Avrin

    8-Bit Avrin Member

    May 10, 2012
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    #17 8-Bit Avrin, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
    I don't think mobile games are dying at all, it's just becoming harder for indie developers to be discovered and make money. Games are still the top grossing category of apps on the App Store, but I think that's mostly thanks to the freemium model and tablet market that's taken off. Bigger developers like Disney, EA, Chillingo, Warners Bros and etc are also releasing more games paid, freemium, and even paid games with iAP.

    I also think the iOS App Store may eventually become more like Google Play were consumers expect apps and games to be free with ads and/or iAP. It's become more clear that if you want to actually make money in the App Store you better learn how to monetize and/or take the risk of spending a lot of time to make something incredibly excellent. Knowing how to market it and/or getting lucky is super helpful too of course.

    Overall, the mobile game and app market is still rising though, and I don't think they will decline anytime soon.
     
  18. MikaMobile

    MikaMobile Well-Known Member

    Feb 14, 2009
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    Are mobile games dying? Not financially or creatively IMO.

    If you're saddened by the shift towards micro-transactions, don't despair. As long as there are people who are annoyed by ads and sleezy IAP, there will remain a market for games which simply charge you once and leave you alone. It's the only revenue model I've considered, and the market has told me it's a fine plan.

    I think the explosion in popularity/revenue of the freemium model hasn't come at the expense of premium apps - it's just been an overall growth of the whole market. Paid apps are still downloaded by the truckload. While I think there are a lot MORE potential customers if you go freemium, it's a different clientele. I mean, McDonald's makes a ton of money and sells a lot of crappy food. But does that mean a fine steakhouse should be worrying? Or the local farmer's market? They're all in the food business, but they're serving different needs.
     
  19. Devster3

    Devster3 Active Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    One of the front page articles is some what based on our conversation. That's pretty cool.
     
  20. Devster3

    Devster3 Active Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    I love your examples. The problem is most games are all in the category of games and not yet recognized for their needs.
     

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