Hey everyone, I have been following TouchArcade for a while now, but I am new to the forums. I have dabbled in iPhone/iPod Touch game development enough to learn the SDK and coding etc, but I am now looking to start on a more major project. The basic game concept comes from a game i developed earlier for the PC, and it is sort of like the old Super Mario Brothers, but with weaponry if that makes sense. The game would have online and local multiplayer, therefore users would likely be connected to the Internet while playing. My main question is, based of your experience, what is the best payment model? Does using a group such as AdMob to put banners in the app annoy users, or would they prefer to have ads but get the app for free? Or are models akin to TouchPets Dogs popular, where users physically can't play without a form of in-game energy? So yeah, any feedback on the concept or suggestions for payment models would be much appreciated!
I wouldn't use the 'energy' revenue model. It seems like it works in a management sim game, where people can get addicted to buying and building, but from what I've seen from user comments, the model doesn't translate well into action games. In terms of ad-supported, another tough one. A LOT of devs around here have tried this and 99% of them have reported dismal returns. Admob give very low revenues to the developers but now that Google purchased them, that could change in the future and make it an easier platform for making money. But at the moment it seems that to make any real money from ad-supported Apps, you need an incredibly casual game that can get 500,000 regular players (e.g. Flight control, Harbor Master, or Labyrinth), or a non-gaming App that a large number of people will use frequently. In any other situation, or if you're just not sure, I'd recommend a paid app. It seems to be the most common form of success on the app store. But good luck, your game sounds interesting and I look forward to seeing it!
I've been noticing an advertising firm on several iPhone-related sites called Greystripe. They claim to offer higher revenues to developers through a different form of advertising which is more complex, eg. some are actually interactive. Have you heard of any developers using this advertiser? By the way, thanks for taking the time to leave some feedback --EDIT-- Btw, when you say dismal returns, could you give a rough dollar amount. I am not planning for this to be my actual career, so it might just be enough to make it worthwhile.
Who the **** voted for ads? I bet it was the kids. Cheap bastards, grow up and get a job. Stop playing with adults toys.
I've heard about it too, and they definitely seem to offer a much better platform than Admob currently offers, along with better potential for revenue. Unfortunately, I haven't seen ANY sorts of reports from developers using Greystripe so I really can't say. A few people have posted a few of their stats. Those with 100,000 regular players may get around $50 per day. Most others who have a few thousand free downloads per day (which would be HUGE for a paid app) are maybe earning $1-4 per day.
What if we were planning on releasing an app for free simply to increase company visibility? Is it worth putting an ad in simply to make a little bit on the side or is it better just to leave that out?
Yeah, for a free app it can't hurt much to put an ad or two into it. I think the best ad-placements are one or two simple 5-second ads before you can play the game, with a counter somewhere that informs, "Sponsor message ends in X seconds…" You could even use this to your advantage by encouraging people to upgrade to the paid version to remove the waiting time. Those who play the game frequently enough will probably upgrade. Another time I believe free apps can be useful is if you're just about to release a sequel. Making your app free can grab up to 100 000 downloads overnight, giving you a huge audience to market the new game to, and better yet, they're all your target market.
How about offering both a free, ad-supported version for cheapskates and a paid version for people who want to (1) get rid of annoying ads and (2) support the dev? I heard that ads don't pay very well but at least you're making some kind of money from people who don't want to fork over cash for your app. And, who knows, maybe if they've played your game long enough (i.e. deeper than a lite version would allow) they might realize that your game is worth the price you are asking for and convert from a cheapskate to a paying customer.
The only reason I was really interested in ad-based payment was to combat piracy. Its a well known fact that piracy is rampant on the App Store, and once a paid app gains popularity, it is practically guaranteed to appear on sites such as ********. As Apple so far appears to have no real strategy to combat piracy, at least ad-based has some guarantee of revenue. Has anyone actually heard of anti-piracy systems, or is there nothing that can be done?
Don't worry about piracy and don't worry about pirates. Worry about your sales and your customers. If you put ads in your game, you risk pissing off the few customers that you have. Release a free version, and put ads there. Leave the paid version clean. Don't even bother telling me that you've never pirated anything.
There have been some discussions in these forums about detecting pirated copies of an app via some kind of a phone home mechanism or having an app require a server connection of some kind as a method of detecting pirated copies of an app. Since this can be done, I wonder if anyone has considered something along the lines of including advertising in a paid app but ONLY if it phones home and discovers that copy has been pirated. I know it's possible to cripple a pirated app, what about avoiding that and instead serving ads to pirated copies as a way to gain revenue from the pirates? Anyone think that could work as a way to offset the losses from piracy? Q
Because I think that the concept of piracy is so broad that it is extremely difficult to avoid it. What the RIAA and MPAA determines to be piracy is vastly different to what I consider piracy. I'll admit that I have pirated a few things. Some with good reason/intention, some simply because I needed it immediately, and finally some are just blatantly stolen. The last category is minimal. I think it is perfectly reasonable to circumvent protections on a game or software that I have bought. Most of my games are cracked, and I have the CDs stored away. Technically, this is Pirating. I have bought Metallicas tapes/CDs at least three times each over the years: Kill 'Em All, Ride the Lightening, Master of Puppets, Garage Days, Justice For All. I really don't think I need to buy those CDs again- I have resorted to downloading them. I have needed my applications/tools immediately, when I do not have access to the install CDs or backups (especially during a reinstall of Windows). I will resort to getting the fastest copy possible. I can't think of anything recently that I may have blatantly stolen- maybe some music for my daughter that I wouldn't have bought? My 2-year-old likes Pixar Movies, Sesame Street and SpongeBob. YouTube has been a good method to see what she may enjoy before we invest money into DVDs- and we can also expose her to many different types of music videos. She has a massive collection of legally bought DVDs now. The RIAA and MPAA view YouTube as a threat. I have a lot of consoles, and I have never pirated a game for a console. I have never pirated a mobile game, except for MY OWN on PocketPC/Windows Mobile (I lost my serial, and I was a developer). Overall, I do not think that Piracy is bad- I think it has its purposes and I think it can be ignored.
As opposed to denying it completely and being a hypocrite? Exactly what was I stealing and from whom? I think you need to re-read my post. There is a difference between stealing and piracy.
i agree with flickitty, its really not much you can do about piracy, and i know everyone has stolen or pirated something at a time in their lives.
That is kind of my point. But even deeper, is if you HAVEN'T pirated something in your life, then how can you expect to combat it? Do you even know what it is about or what drives the person to pirate? Or is it something more sinister- you know what drives it because you were THAT person that pirated everything? I know for a fact that there are people on this board that share apps within their household. I am not going to tell them that they need buy my App 5 times. There are even a couple people who admitted to sharing MY APP with their spouse. I'm not angry at them, nor their spouse. I am honored that they actually WANT my game on 2 different devices. I've given away over 25,000 full version copies. How do I separate those people from the pirates? My girlfriend and I have two separate iTunes accounts. We do not share games or apps. She and I have our own legitimate copies of Charmed, as well as many other games. We could share, we just don't.
FAO of the original question poster: I'm sure you've seen it already but just in case, an old admob forum topic got dug up here that really gives some good real-world data - http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=36023 Plus a new article from the RetroDreamer developers on experimenting on an ad-supported game - http://retrodreamer.com/blog/2009/12/elf-command-results-week-1/ Well there goes any reason for me ever paying for any of your games. Just kiddingÂ… But I have a lot more respect for the artists, developers, creators who support others in the industry, and who share an understanding of the problems with piracy. Whether or not you've pirated in the past, or your reasons for doing it, don't matter. The fact that you're endorsing it (under whatever circumstances) is insensitive toward other content creators, and even potentially harmful. I don't believe they're comments you should be making publicly as a developer.
