An iPhone owner walks into a bar...

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Rubicon, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    ... and leaves straight away, still gagging for a drink.

    All of the drinks cost over a buck, except the coffee. Which you could neither drink for a month nor have free refills for life, so it's a rip off.
     
  2. Jdragoon19

    Jdragoon19 Well-Known Member

    Nov 29, 2010
    2,854
    0
    0
    TouchArcade Forums
    Area 51
    Quick question: have you been hacked?
     
  3. drelbs

    drelbs Well-Known Member

    Jun 25, 2009
    11,200
    7
    38
    You forgot to mention them rallying and debating with the other people there about how they should be giving away the coffee (on top of free WiFi! ;))

    Maybe he had a good stiff drink (or five.)

    Have some Chocolate Stout waiting for me at home... :D
     
  4. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

    Jun 16, 2009
    3,738
    10
    38
    You get hot water for free, and incrementally earn your coffee beans, unless of course you're prepared to pay premium rate for something that really won't benefit or even effect your life in any lasting or meaningful way.

    I just realised I'm kinda erring on the side of consumers here, while the thread was initially in favour of developers. That wasn't intentional, but it just shows how much of a joke the entire setup has become.
     
  5. lepeos

    lepeos Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2010
    448
    0
    16
    Rubicon I get the whole "I'm a developer, just telling it like it is," but now you're just getting whiny.
     
  6. klarence

    klarence Well-Known Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    361
    0
    0
    The worst thing is not the expectation of getting apps for 1 dollar, instead of that, lots of people hacked their phones and got things for free.
    I'd think about it several times, if all they guys pay for what they get, then the developer could make much more money and they can make apps better.
     
  7. ANIMALCHOPPINGS

    ANIMALCHOPPINGS Well-Known Member

    Feb 25, 2011
    300
    0
    0
    Canada
    Nice post! It's actually really true. Weird ideas
     
  8. Dirty Harry Hannahan

    Dirty Harry Hannahan Well-Known Member

    Apr 14, 2011
    1,661
    0
    0
    Planet Earth
    This made me laugh. :D
     
  9. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    Interesting, just thought I'd kick this old one off again, see what happened. :)
     
  10. Tannorexic

    Tannorexic Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2011
    602
    0
    0
    Student
    Somewhere in the spiritual realm
    #10 Tannorexic, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
    No offense, but you look a bit dickish when you say that stuff.
    Are you saying your games are SO good that how dare anyone say it should be free? Cause that sounds a bit egotistical.

    Plus, people sometimes expect software for free because they know there's no production costs..so technically the seller isn't losing any money from their pocket.
     
  11. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    I'm not saying anything about my games at all. In fact I guess it's disclaimer time: We have been fairly successful as an indie dev, have had great support from the iOS community and there are no overall complaints from me at all.

    What I'm really about is finding out why some people, like those you mention and yourself, think there are no production costs involved and stuff should be either free or practically free. Or maybe they know stuff doesn't just magically happen but still don't want to pay for it anyway. What's that, Communism?

    I opened the debate with an inflamatory joke to get some attention, but I really do want to get this out and aired one final time. (Ideally without the "You're a dick" posts.)
     
  12. lepeos

    lepeos Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2010
    448
    0
    16
    I don't understand why it's consumers that get the bad wrap when it's developers that have set the precedent for cheap games. You all have had complete control over how you price your games on the App Store since day 1, and a consumer can hardly be blamed if a game becomes more desirable at a third or a quarter of its price.

    On top of this I find it a bit hypocritical to complain when an awful lot of developers took part in that 'Because we may' giant price reduction a little while ago, proudly extolling the virtues of being able to price their game however they saw fit. I only read about one developer who actually increased the price of his game. Good on him.

    The bottom line is that if Developers maybe had more faith in their products from the start they wouldn't now feel the need to discount them massively if they don't appear in the top 100 within a week.

    Obviously this isn't true of every developer, but when you read all this defeatist shit or cynical barbs from price martyrs every week it starts to get on your nerves.
     
  13. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    Couple of good points in there, but you are mistaken about devs having (effective) pricing control.

    In the early days people were making and selling crap that wasn't arguably worth a dollar. However all you need do is check the TA front page once a day to see top quality titles coming out that on Mac/PC might have been 10 to 20 bucks. But now the precedent has been set, it's impossible to overturn. Any announcement that has a pricetag over a coupla bucks, or heaven forbid an IAP expansion, and there will usually be at least a few comments moaning about it.

    It's true that as a dev I'm biased, but really - not that much. Anything well made that provides more than 10 minutes of entertainment has to be worth more than a buck, doesn't it?
     
  14. lepeos

    lepeos Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2010
    448
    0
    16
    Well I take your point about the early days of the App Store and a dirge of the quality titles we see today setting that dollar-a-game precedent. I can see how you're sort of stuck in a catch 22 where if you don't make a game cheap it won't sell, and you can't exactly make a good game, or a game to your full potential on a limited budget. This is obviously your job as well, so making yourself some money so that you can actually survive and make more games is important as well.

    I still think its up to developers to stand their ground. To go back to my previous point, I think more should be done to band together and fix or increase prices rather than lower them in developer circles. If a game is good it will sell, it might be a but bumpy getting to the point where people see 4.99 the way they see .99 now but it will happen. I think it has already somewhat started.

    At the same time, that's not to say prices should explode on the App Store. I thought the idea of digital distribution was supposed to bring costs down, so as much as I'm happy to see them rise from worthlessly cheap so we can see more quality games, let's not see a return to the 50 quid N64 games.
     
  15. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    This is one of the things I'd hoped my dev badge didn't undermine. We make some small games that we charge a dollar for, but our magnus opus is $2.99 and we sell ok at that, so I'm really not complaining on my own behalf. Or complaining at all, just trying to get the mindset of those that disagree.

    I think one of the big issues here is that even I just said it - tons of top quality apps are coming out all the time. So market forces must be doing there thing and the worthy get rewarded and the worst forgotten, right?. Sounds good, but I really don't think it's gonna last much longer - the move to freemium and iap you have to buy to continue is already taking over and even I hate that - I'm a customer too.
     
  16. lepeos

    lepeos Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2010
    448
    0
    16
    Haha IAP now that's a different kettle of fish. I'm always in two minds about it.

    First I distinctly remember being younger and discussing with my friend how great it would be if we could simply just pay to unlock all the cars in Gran Turismo 3. I think we'd either unlocked most of them bar a few difficult ones or maybe lost a save, but my point is that even then we were willing to pay something to advance a game.

    The second thing that comes to mind is Dungeon Hunter 3. The End.

    At the end of the day I wouldn't begrudge a developer who places IAP purchase in a 'premium' or 'hardcore' game to unlock things, in a way it helps the game cater to all audiences. I guess what irks me is that when the requirements to unlock something aren't 'Complete this level in hard mode' or 'Finish in under 17 seconds' and are instead 'Play for 1/3 of your adult life'.
     
  17. ArtNJ

    ArtNJ Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2009
    3,212
    29
    48
    New Jersey
    #17 ArtNJ, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
    Not a great time to be starting this, with your upcoming release using (I think?) a freemium model of questionable fairness.

    As I understand it, your upcoming release will be free or modest cost, but you will charge for map packs, which come with a "bonus" unit.

    Since this will be a ranked multiplayer game, units which impact gameplay are not optional to serious players. So the true cost of your game will be unknown, as you can continue to release game changing "bonus" units whenever you please.

    So...yeah, no offense, but your kind of living in a glass house right now. If you were going to be charging some sum higher than .99 for a complete game (3, 4, 10 dollars, whatever), then at least you would have some grounds for your post. However, that isnt what you are doing, so...yeah, bad idea starting this up.
     
  18. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    #18 Rubicon, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
    This is exactly the kind of confrontational claptrap that led me to post in the first place. Random people with no facts, usually not even looking at a game, dismissing it for imagined slights that aren't there. And me even pointing that out makes me a whiner. Well, whatever.

    So lets just go through this then, I'll play along.

    Freemium? No
    Questionable fairness? Who's asking the question and what fairness are we talking about?

    No.

    Yes. There's no need for the quotes though, it's a real bonus unit.

    You may have a point here, not something we'd considered. Thanks for ruling it out though instead of asking me about it so I could think it through more.

    What has this to do with cost? And what part of the cost is unknowable anyway?

    Lemme just double check this because I don't believe I'm hearing it. Future content updates are now a bad thing? Wow.

    Plenty taken.

    It's been quite public that we were intially looking at $4.99 but decided to go with $2.99 and some optional IAP expansions to get the entry cost down.

    Well, it kinda is really. But you're half right - I stated twice already that this debate isn't about me feeling put on in any way and is more for general discussion on the $0.99 or bust mentality. You know, people not even in my target audience.

    On the contrary, I find it quite enlightening. I knew from the get go that the vocal minority would end up making me look the bad guy, but I gotta admit I thought it would take longer than this.

    Let's just wrap this up with a quote from just two posts up:
     
  19. crex

    crex Doctor of Game of the Week-ology

    Oct 18, 2010
    7,679
    10
    0
    Everywhere and Nowhere
    If a game is good, it deserves to be priced at a point that is fair.

    Take that for what it's worth. If you are b****ing and moaning about a fun game that took hard work and dedication to make being priced more than a vending machine snack, then screw you. I think this develper is getting unnecessary harassment for an opinion that is fair. As long as you aren't charging 50 bucks for an in-game gun, then I'm fine paying whatever price you set your game at.

    My words, my opinion, my post.
     
  20. ArtNJ

    ArtNJ Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2009
    3,212
    29
    48
    New Jersey
    #20 ArtNJ, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
    @Rubicon -

    You concede my basic point, that in a ranked online multiplayer game, the purchase of units that are worth using is pretty much mandatory to the serious competitor. That means that the price of your game is unknown and unknowable to the serious leaderboard aspirant. Its 2.99 + however many IAP packs contain units that are important to the serious competitor. That is potentially unfair pricing. Maybe "unfair" isnt the right word -- the problem is that the ultimate price is unknowable, and can keep increasing without limit.

    I get that you are willing to think about it. I get that you are a good guy. I get that you arent trying to rip anyone off. I get that you put blood sweat and tears into your game. So I'll ignore the fact that you ripped me a bit and try to be productive and make a serious suggestion. Keep your price model intact, but add the option to pay a higher price -- 4.99 or whatever price you think is appropriate -- to automatically buy all future expansions.

    I'm sorry my post seemed to be an attack to you. It was meant to be a very mild thing. I have no reason to attack you personally (as opposed to the pricing model), you have quality product out there, and seem to take pride in what you do. I'm looking forward to trying your new game.

    Peace :)
     

Share This Page