The pinnacle of iPod and iPhone gaming?

I just don't understand the attraction of MMORPGs. I have tried them and I just find that as dull as toast.

I think we are getting close to the limit of what can be done on the iPhone until someone comes out with a hardware addon that gives people a joystick and a couple of buttons.

Until then, I think that games like Defender Chronicles and Real Racing are about as far as the graphics are going to take us.

Games like Dungeon Hunter, Blades of Fury, Lumines and Madden NFL are always going to be slightly (or more) crippled because of the lack of hardware buttons.

Having said that, I am not sure it matters as long as creative people are out there writing things like Alchemize, Boxikon, Scraps, Slay, Spider (Bryce Manor) and Unify (to name a few). These are none of them "pinnacle" (whatefer that really means) but all have gameplay that makes them a lot of fun and perfect for the iPhone MMI.

Michael

 

I would say they both play pretty well. Both are certainly fun, but I suggest you try Soul Calibur on the PSP and tell me what you think then. The graphics aren't particularly better, but playing with an actual joystick and buttons is just a far better experience. Not only are you not blocking the screen with your fingers, but the control is just so much precise and consistent with hardware controls. Its not the analog controls, its the fact that the button presses are so much surer.

Try God of War on the PSP and then tell me if you think any game like that is ever going to be nearly as good on an iPhone without some hardware controls. Try Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

Lumines I think they will be able to fix to get it close to the PSP experience. the others I doubt.

Games like Pipe Mania, Slay, Almost any Tower Defense, PathPix, Marple and a ton of others are far better on the iphone, but as good as Real Racing is, it doesn't hold a candle to Ridge Racer.

Don;t get me wrong. I am not trashing the iphone for gaming. I actually didn't touch my PSP for a year after I got the iPhone. I only picked it up about a week ago to play Soul Calibur (and some Lumines as long as I had it out).

Overall, for most of the game I like the most, the iPhone is better. My point was that the games it is better at are the types that I don't see getting much more complicated. They will get more (or differently) clever (cf Spider), but the games that keep getting more and more complicated so as to be called the pinicle of gaming (GOF, DH, GOW types, driving types) just aren't going to get much better then they are right now, because their problems aren't the framerate or the graphics, their main problem is the controls.

Regards, Michael

 

would HATE if a game required additional hardware. in fact, i think it's a step backwards if a game or an app required additional hardware.

 

I am not sure why you consider it a step backwards. Backwards reletive to what? Why is it any different then getting a specialized game controller for a PS3 or a WII?

If your problem is with the "required" nature, you can probably relax, since I can't imagine anything that comes out will be popular enough for them to eschew onscreen controls for the foreseeable future.

But, if your problem is just the idea of using something like this on the iPhone, then that ship has sailed. Is it a step backwards when the phone app works better with a bluetooth headset? Is it a step backwards when the movie app works better with a stand? When the TomTom works better with the car kit?

The iPhone is great at many things, but there is nothing wrong with adding something external to make specialized apps work better.

If someone came along tomorrow with some sort of gamedock that supported a few exisiting games for $20-$30, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Michael

 

Yeah, it's something I'd love to see myself. I've looked into developing a gamepad myself (as a non-profit thing to try and promote a decent hardcore gaming market on iphone/touch) - but have been stymied so far by the pseudo-usb-but-not-really data connector on the device. To adapt an existing controller, I'd have to put a custom ROM on the controller which - without documentation - is something I don't think I'll manage on my own.

You can see the design concepts here anyway, if you're interested: http://www.iphoneopengaming.com/iOGA_hardware.html

 

I think the pinnacle of iPhone gaming will come in the form of an epic TBS game, akin to Battle for Wesnoth.

That, or we'll see the first Augmented Reality MMO. That could be interesting.... actually wandering around in your neighborhood looking for monsters to slay and other wanderers in your area could be a trip.

 

Defender Chronicles has average graphics.

You can't really compare different genres against each other. For example, Meteor Blitz is the pinnacle of shooters, iBlast Moki is the pinnacle of physics games but both can't be compared because they're completely different games. That's why iPhone reviews that give a rating that is coordinated with other games that aren't in its genre is wrong. A reviewer should rate it on how good it is in its genre.

Rolando 2 is good as well. xD

 

I would be against additional hardware as well. Had I bought the iPhone with only gaming in mind then maybe I wouldnt think about this as much. But having the iPhone, wallet, and keys is what just attracted me to buying the device in the first place. The only way I would buy additional hardware for iPhone is if it fit in my wallet without a bulge and it included a PSP-like joystick and buttons with enough sensitivity to capture everything we expect from a joystick.

Back on topic, I also dont think we've reached the pinnacle of iPhone gaming. Blades of Fury and Dungeon Hunter are graphically impressive for an iPhone title but they also work for the previous generations which are less well suited for a greater graphics. I'm sure once developers start making 3gs and 3rd gen iPod touch exclusive games, we'll start seeing a new era of gaming. Of course like it has been mentioned before, there are still those awesome unique titles like spider and sway that take advantage of touch controls and show great innovation.

 

We need more open world games. The lack of them makes me sad. 3D open world, that is, like Midtown Madness, Fuel, Prototype.. And such. We, by far, have not come close to the end... Unless we think it is. As long as there's people working to find something better, then it's not going to end unless there is truly no possible way to get better.

We're far from that.



That augmented reality game looks fun.

 

I disagree. I had much more fun playing Real Racing using the accelerometer on my iPod touch than I have Ridge Racer using the analog nub on my PSP.

I've already stated why I feel why racers on iPhone/touch are more fun than those on PSP. IMHO, accelerometer >>>> analog nub. Immersion counts for a lot in my book. When accelerometer controls are done right, as it is in Real Racing, it shows that racers can shine on this platform.

But, that aside, why would those ("racers, GOF, DH, GOW types") be called the "pinnacle of gaming"? By what measure?

One could easily state that games like the Super Mario's of the world are the "pinnacle of gaming". One could easily state that games like Tetris are the "pinnacle of gaming". Same with things like FPS, shmups, fighters, adventure games, RPGs, RTS, etc., etc., etc. Hell, one could make the argument that "clever" games like Eliss or Spider hit that "pinnacle" as well. It's a matter of perception.

It's a mobile platform. Part of the reason people buy into it is the small and convenient size, and the fact that they don't need to carry a bunch of accessories to go along with it.

The phone itself works with bluetooth headsets, so that example falls on its face.

Movie apps working better with a stand? And how many people buy such stands? The stand doesn't, btw, change the nature of the device, it merely is an aesthetic add with which to prop up the device. It doesn't have to be programmed in by the devs.

TomTom? Same sort of deal.

These are just bad examples.

The iPhone is great at many things, but there is nothing wrong with adding something external to make specialized apps work better.

The games themselves would have to be programmed to take advantage of the peripheral. Most devs probably wouldn't do such a thing.

I don't think it's a bad idea, but just like, say, the motion sensing add on for DS, there won't be many games that use it. Same deal with the camera add on for PSP. A handful of devs would look at it, but not many.

You'd buy it...but how many would do the same? It has to be the vast majority of the audience for most devs to even bother investing time and money to implement options for such a peripheral.

 

Hehe, I love my stand, I use it all the time (usually with Theme Clock running on it) but I didn't buy it:


(Borrowed pictures...)

 

I just made it... and it works!!!
Thx drelbs

 

Spiffyone, you seem a bit testy. What have I said that set you off? Was it because I don't like MMORPGs?

Then for you, It is not the case that racers are more fun on the PSP. Perhaps if the only control of the racing game was steering, I might agree with you. Do you also prefer tapping the screen to hitting a dedicated button? I don't.

How about my other examples of games that do not use the acceerometer, but instead create virtual buttons on the screen. Do you also like virtual buttons better then real buttons?

No idea. I didn't know what the poster meant, so I took it to mean "best graphics, deepest gameplay". If you want to discuss a different definition, its fine with me.

While one could state that, one would have a difficult time coming up with a definition of "pinnacle of gaming" that fit any of those games. "It's the pinnacle because I say so" doesn't count. Spider is great, but I have no doubt that someone is going to steal the basic concept and come out with an improvement (cf, Bejeweled, Tetris, Flight Control, etc). I am happy to discuss whatever definition you like, but it has to be verbalized first.

Are you saying part of the reason "you" bought it is because "you" don't need to carry around a bunch of accessories, or are you telling me why I bought it? Enough people in enough different forums have talked about their desire for an add-in gamepad, that I don't think you can say I am alone in my desire. Would I carry it with me everywhere? Probably not. Would I like one for those times I am going to be playing in one spot for a while? You Betcha.

Of course the games would, and while most developers wouldn't take advantage of it (and most games wouldn't need it), I think if Apple added an API for a gamepad, big developers like Gameloft, EA and Chillingo would jump on the opportunity to take advantage of it.

Well, as I said before, a lot of people have mentioned that they would like one. When there was a roumor about a gamepad last year, a lot of people got pretty excited.

I think if it was done well, with a few premium games at launch, it could sell well. Most people might not get them, but if 10% got it, that would be a several million sales.

It wouldn't have to be the vast majority, because given a proper api, it wouldn't be that much work. Coming up with good control based on screen taps is a lot harder then reading inputs from buttons.


Michael