Developer I don't mind IAP even in paid games but make them worth buying!

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by iniblade, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. iniblade

    iniblade Active Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    I have played several games with my new iphone4s an upgrade from the android I used to have. I don't mind IAP even in games I paid for. My problem is the IAP are too low like if an item is 5,000 coins and the IAP is 1,000 coins for 0.99 cents that's not helping me at all. Developers start making the IAP reasonable. I understand developers need to make money but games like banana kong or jetpack joyride have terrible IAP even though the games are fun come on its almost torture to upgrade. Offer solid IAP at 0.99 - $2.99 price point and trust me you will convert more users easily.
    I don't mind IAP at all as Iam happy to pay for games , like the new infinity blade. But fix your mindset on IAP for people like me who don't mind paying but want value for their money . Thanks!
     
  2. No more $100 cars!
     
  3. iniblade

    iniblade Active Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    $100 cars what game tried to pull off that stunt?
     
  4. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    I hope they fix their mindset on the masses who dont like IAP's full stop. Yes the devs need to make money, release your games a dollar more than at say 3.99 and dont drop the price as a lot of people wait a week or so knowing the price will drop.

    IAP's 'can' be okay but just too many seem obstructive and 'force' you to buy IAP's
     
  5. chris1a

    chris1a Well-Known Member

    Mar 10, 2010
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    There's a 3-cars pack in Asphalt 8 for $99.99. Yes, it's crazy (and so are the ones buying it).

    Thing about games in particular and IAPs is that you're rarely buying an actual product with your IAP purchase. It's all cars, life potions, gold and so on. Buying things like that is kinda like buying air or wiping your bum bum with the money.
     
  6. iniblade

    iniblade Active Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    The reason developers use IAP is they want the gamer to experience the game first before making the user pay more. Iam ok to give extra support to developers but I want developers to make worthwhile IAP not the nickel and dime type. Outside of the internet most people don't mind IAP. On the Internet forums a lot of people hate it. I don't mind it but games like banana kong have gotten to greedy with it, jetpack joyride also.
     
  7. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    I dont agree with that. To me thats the 'shareware' pay method

    About 18 months ago this model was quite popular. You downloaded the game, got one free level, then paid xxx amount to unlock the rest of the game. Thats great, love this pay model.

    However freemium is totally different. Perhaps not all devs but i'm still nervous with certain freemium games as surely they need to make money, they can make money by creating a 'paywall' so people will pay x amount in game for certain things. Its crazy how much some people pay.

    To be fair remember when Punch Quest was released free and you could buy an IAP as a 'thank you' to the devs. So many people didnt. Theres lots of people who just want apps for free (Look at the people here begging for codes when they're all gone or waiting for a 99c game to be free !). On the other hand someones buying all the IAP's as you keep hearing crazy figures of how much freemium apps make.

    Love the old 'shareware' model totally, but just not a fan of freemium.
     
  8. DannyTheElite

    DannyTheElite Well-Known Member

    Oct 13, 2012
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    If apple rejected all the trash this 99 cents problem wouldn't exist, people would buy the game for the price set knowing it is decent enough to pass approval.
     
  9. bigrand1

    bigrand1 Well-Known Member

    Apr 23, 2010
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    I'm not a fan of the freemium type games. Rather pay a few bucks and get the whole shebang right away. And I don't appreciate being 'forced' to do so.
     
  10. iniblade

    iniblade Active Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    A lot of good points!! Like I said I want to support developers and I know they can't charge 4-7 unless they have a large enough marketing budget to push the game. I don't mind IAP but this nickel and dime crap has got to go. Even whale trail has worthless IAP. But nothing beats banana kong they don't give you crap unless you pay a lot. We should have an IAP warning thread on toucharcade.
     
  11. If you had a warning thread, it would be almost every single game nowadays, only a handful don't have any inapps.
     
  12. Bytebrain

    Bytebrain Well-Known Member

    Jul 24, 2010
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    I never even looked at the prices for IAP's in Banana Kong, and ended up with full upgrades on all abilities, so I don't see the issue with that game at all as IAP's was so not necessary to enjoy that game for me.
     
  13. september

    september Well-Known Member

    Sep 14, 2012
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    People got to eat, but at the same time I am less inclined to support developers and future titles after ludicrous IAP pricing even if the game itself is good. Just a trust and respect issue, happy to support, not happy to be taken for a fool.
     
  14. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Again i can see both sides. When Punch Quest first came out it was free, there were IAP's including i'm sure a donate button ? They hardly got any money from that, so despite people always saying 'if its a great game i'll buy an IAP as a way of a 'thankyou' to the devs' that backfired big time.

    I still love the shareware model, have an app, download it, get say 2 levels free and pay to unlock the rest.

    Granted devs have to eat but theres a fineline of doing IAP's correctly and other times when theres a paywall and you're 'forced' to buy things. Very tricky as like i say its a fine line
     
  15. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Totally disagree again !

    If devs want people to experience the game then use the shareware model which has been around for years and years.

    They have IAP's as people seem to somehow buy tons of IAP's and so the devs make crazy money. You get kids moaning when a games 2 dollars and wanting to wait for it to be 99c or free, yet on the other hand when a games 'freemium' they seem to buy tons of IAP's ! Most of the highest grossing games are freemium ones.

    How on earth do you know that outside of the internet (Which most people have nowadays) people dont mind freemium ? Again totally disagree. To play iOS games you need the internet to download them ! The target audience are male gamers 12+ years old all the way up to 40 or 50. They know gaming, they know whats good and what isnt.

    You say that about Banana Kong but other people who might not be good at certain games might think theres an earlier paywall than you think there is.

    Again if devs want you to experience a game, what they used to have on the app store was a free download (2 levels) then you paid to unlock the rest. That worked fine
     
  16. nburcombe

    nburcombe Well-Known Member

    I posted this on "GT Racing" comment section and then thought it might be worth asking in here too....

    I've been reading some of the comments below (above - not sure where this post will show up) and I'm seeing lots of noise about a resistance to IAP and freemium model in general. My question is this. "Would you be prepared to pay $14.99 for a console quality title on condition that any further purchases in game were for DLC and expansion of the game." No wait timers, no consumables, no "delivery times", no repair bills.....Its a conundrum for developers of all sizes, but small experienced Indies like ourselves are wondering if the market will take it? You know Table Top racing went out at $2.99 and it can probably soak up about 10-30 hours of time and so as far as comparable value goes I'd say it was pretty good. If I went to the cinema - for a 2 hour movie - over here in the UK it's likely to cost me close to £10 ($13-14) and that's it - I can't go back and watch it multiple time - its a one shot deal. I could have a coffee for £3.50 ($5) its about 30 minutes before I'm on my way. A football match (soccer I mean) - a premiership ticket is on average £28.30 ($35) and it could well be a couple of hours of watching you team perform terribly. So when you're making a valuation on games how is it that some people think that $1 is "too expensive" is it because historically the quality of games has been pretty lacklustre and only now you're seeing mobile gaming as "real gaming" i.e. the quality is there, the content is there and it's worth putting the time in - or is it something else? What drives your thinking on mobile game value? I'm curious. Its economical suicide to keep diving for the the lowest possible price for most developers - we don't have armies of analytic specialists tweaking and tuning and refining for the most profitable set-up, we just make games. Don't get me wrong - we understand the market is what it is - but even since starting our first game, it's changed massively and paid apps are having a hard time so free 2 play is a strategy you have to consider along with its complications and difficulties. But what's wrong with paying a talented developer for a well executed game? Why do you think this is such a difficult concept to go back to now that the bottom (i.e "Free" has been reached?). All opinions welcomed.

    BTW we are starting to design TTR2 and our ethos on this is going to be free to play - BUT critically, no consumables, all in app purchases will be buying more fun and more gameplay - we're simply calling it "Pay 4 Fun". If there's no new gameplay associated with it - it's free. If there's new playing experiences associated with it - it's paid. Does this seem like a better approach to you guys - I value your opinions.

    Nick
     
  17. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    I think so many users have been spoilt by iOS gaming, people seem to say WHAT??? the second a game comes out for a few dollars as they're so used to 1 dollar or free games.

    I mean its depressing when people wait for tons of impressions on a game when its a dollar ! I can see sometimes when devs go to freemium as it must be depressing seeing people moan about the price of a 2 dollar game or beg for promo codes when they could spend a dollar and get the game themselves.

    I personally think the minimum price for iOS games should be $5, i dont have a problem paying $10-20 for a game if theres no IAP's ever.

    I want devs to do well and make money (so we get more games) so i'm fine with higher prices. But again its weird, people always want free/cheap games yet freemium games make millions and millions ?!

    But please no timers, IAP's are one thing but why oh why use timers, they're terrible. Please please dont use those !

    Again when done right IAP's are fine. If you have a 'free to play' game with say 4 levels, pay $3 for the next set of levels and perhaps $4 for the final set of levels thats fine. People would probably prefer that than one big one-off payment of 10-20 dollars.

    But what kills freemium games are the paywalls. I used to like the Gameloft game Six Guns but it was ridiculous, used to have to buy bullets to complete a mission, then most of the reward money was spent back on bullets again. Ridiculous. Bullet Time had lots of IAP's but you never were 'forced' to get them, or grind for days on end.

    Its very well some young kid going on about 'i didnt have to buy any IAP's to complete the game' but yeah you dont work, or have a wife/kid to see so you were playing it 24/7 to complete it !

    But granted theres a wide wide range of users out there, but again the problem is the bar was set so low with cheap games some users will faint if they have to pay $5 or more as it'll be a huge shock (But back previously many games throughout the years have been so expensive. When i was 14 games were mostly $12 each)
     
  18. iniblade

    iniblade Active Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    1) There are well over 100,000,000 iPod touch and iphone users. Only a fraction of those people ever go online. Most people use the AppStore search function or word of mouth from friends to buy games. I know a lot of iphone gamers who never heard of toucharcade or forums in general they mainly pick what's featured or what's hot section of AppStore. If try came here they would be mind blown.

    2) The race to the bottom mentality got us here and honestly the low price is the developers fault. All developers did was keep dropping the price to their games. Now we have consumers online who whine about price, and we need 10-20 moderators on a site to keep these whiners in check . It's hard on developers and on website moderators trying to keep order.

    3) People have no problem paying once they are addicted. If developers go back to the shareware model I suggest give a lot of content like league of evil part 1 gave 9 levels free when they 1st came out. Once you got addicted you will buy the game no matter what the price.
     
  19. Nobunaga

    Nobunaga Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2012
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    In regards to IAP, I find that in a majority of games where there are consumable IAPs the pricing model is (to me) ludicrous. $10+ cars, swords, guns, etc. I'm not big on complaining about IAP. I also rarely buy them. There are exceptions, I've paid in Raptisoft games as a sign of appreciation. In a few games with a "shareware" model and a few to disable ads (only as a restorable purchase).

    As far as pricing goes, obviously Squaresoft and other large companies,or well known Games (mostly ports) go charging in the $5 to $20 range has worked. Some games such as Infinty Blade have done incredibly well with a higher than $1 price tag. Quality sells. I agree that many games on the AppStore are sold at too low of a price. Many, perhaps most, are not worth the asking price though. The amount of garbage on the store dictates that the minimum price cannot go up. I own games that I enjoy, that I believe do not justify a higher price. I'm also not against sending $3 on Canabalt, Ridiculous Fishing or Knightmare Tower. Although incredibly casual, they were worth the $3 to me. Value is subjective.

    I truly believe that Apple needs a system in place for QA. Until one is put into action prices cannot and will not go up for the average game. Mobile games will not be taken seriously.
     
  20. Gov

    Gov Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2013
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    #20 Gov, Oct 4, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
    At the end of the day... Just be happy and appreciate you're an iOS gamer/user. Android is atrocious, IAP or not. Yes we wish for a more farer IAP system, but at least we are on the right platform... The best platform for mobile gaming actually.
     

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