New developer and new game

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by StevePerks, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. StevePerks

    StevePerks Active Member

    Apr 8, 2010
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    Hi, I just wanted to introduce myself and get some feedback if possible. I come from a business software development background on the PC, but have been tinkering on and off with iPhone development on a Mac for some months now.

    I've got to a stage now where I've started to put in some serious development time for an iPhone/iPod Touch game, and could possibly complete it in a relatively short timescale if I continue to put the hours in.

    The game is (yet another) line drawing chaos management game but I have 2 new ideas for the genre which I'm hoping will make it stand out amongst the competition. Sorry I can't do into detail on these ideas yet, but I guess I'm asking do you think there is room in the App Store for another line drawing game with a different twist on it, or have gamers had their fill of this type of game?

    Steve
     
  2. summaecodex

    summaecodex Member

    Mar 24, 2010
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    hiya Steve

    to be honest, it's very hard to stand out in this genre. People seem happy with Flight Control and Harbor Master.

    although I guess it depends how good your twist is...

    if you're going ahead with it, I'd suggest you think as much as about your business model as the game. Going out even at 99c is a no-go these days.

    Think about freemium, ad-funded, free promotion sites - all of the above.

    good luck

    jon
    pocketgamer
     
  3. I'd have to agree: It had better be a pretty significant, exceptional twist if it's going to have any hope of standing out. The line drawing/chaos management genres are very much saturated as it is, and it has already been dominated by some heavy hitters, so it's going to take something pretty sensational and different -- and not just for the sake of being different -- if it's going to attract any sort of attention and renew interest in the line drawing genre.

    I generally say, if you're going to follow in the footprints of the multitudes who came before, your shoes had better be big enough to obliterate them or nobody will ever know you were there. If you want to enter such a saturated market, you'll have to make something pretty epic, and not in a way that feels contrived, so I wish you luck on that.
     
  4. StevePerks

    StevePerks Active Member

    Apr 8, 2010
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    Thanks for the quick replies guys. I really appreciate what you've both said and I do agree with the saturation element of the market. I think this is true of most established game types whether they are first person shooters, line drawing, puzzle games, etc. The common key element to the success of any game or application seems to be exposure, exposure, exposure.

    I've been reading the other thread in this forum "The wrong side of the app store" about the A side and the B side of the App Store. Although potentially discouraging on the first read, it bought home one of my original criteria for developing this game - spend no more than 6 weeks on it. This is born out of necessity because (like a lot of other indies) I have zero budget for the game other than the 'cost' of my time, and even 6 weeks is pushing it, as I have to continue to earn a living through my core PC development business.

    I do believe I have a unique and potentially successful twist to the line drawing game genre. Perhaps I'm blinkered by the perceived quality of my own idea, perhaps not... Time will tell and I am happy for you guys to say we told you so, but I will be even happier if I can say I had reasonable success.

    So on the whole I am willing to gamble 4-6 weeks of my life and livelihood to scratch an itch that just won't go away. That itch is to get a game finished and published on the App Store. Why? I really don't know.
     
  5. headcaseGames

    headcaseGames Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2009
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    Yeah if you can keep your time/work investment minimal, then I say go for it. There's a lot you should be aware of however - if you truly intend to get your game seen, do your damnedest to make sure it looks nice, is casual player friendly, has a lite version released coincident with the pay version (and upsell properly - don't give away too much in your lite!)

    Promote it here on TA as well as any other place you can think of, give people a reason to know who you are/what you're doing, et cetera. The days of just putting a game out on the app store and hoping "it will sell itself" are long gone for all but the most fortunate, at this point you need to cover your butt with a lot of other things to get some notice. At the very least, get yoirself some kinda blog/twitter/facebook etc so that when you do catch someone's eye, they have a place to hang out and "watch" otherwise you just drift off into the ether.

    That being said, if you have a really good twist to show off, do your best to play it up leading up to release (don't want it to get stolen/upstaged either!) and maybe you could get a break, who knows! I for one am interested to see what is in store..! Just starting a thread like this is a good way to begin.
     
  6. That may be oversimplifying things. Clearly, exposure is great and necessary for success, but you're not going to get that exposure if you don't have a product that inspires it. (You don't get written about because you're just like everyone else after all.) By and large, the games that got exposure even in a saturated market typically deserved it because they did something different, better, and/or simply more engaging.

    Oh, absolutely go for it! You'll never know if you don't try, and you may just have something fit to print on your hands. Just hold no expectations when it's released and don't get discouraged if it doesn't do well. (And of course, celebrate well if it does. :)) You've chosen to enter a packed and competitive genre, so the bar is already set pretty high. You just have to make sure you can either set it higher, or distract people with a nicer one. :)
     
  7. headcaseGames

    headcaseGames Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2009
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    One other thing which should be mentioned, and it really is never said enough - 1st order of business is to get a proof-of-concept, where you can see if what worked in your head conceptually translates well into actual software.

    From that point, get it presentable to the point where it can be shown to random people to test. You don't need fancy menus, features, etc, just have the gameplay working and graphics that are at the very least not offensive. Then show this around, hopefully to people you don't know - if you see some people txting on their iPhone in a bar, more often than not strangers are usually pretty happy to donate a minute to look at your game if you give them a line like "I am making an iPhone game and need to get some feedback, do you have a minute?" This way you can tell if it is just in your head that the game is cool, or if people generally can enjoy it. A few samples like that will tell you all you need to know, for every major build you've got.

    (be sure to try to observe them with your lips sealed, rather than showing them how to play. Even an early build should incorporate some sort of "how to play" which is compelling enough not to be skipped past, or overloaded with details)

    Our first game we didn't really test at ALL in the field and we paid for it :( Our new game we tested extensively, and I think we have a decent chance of getting some nice sales numbers when it launches soon :)
     
  8. StevePerks

    StevePerks Active Member

    Apr 8, 2010
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    Thanks again for these snippets of advice.

    Good luck with the new game, what's it called so I can look out for it.
     
  9. Mr Jack

    Mr Jack Well-Known Member

    Firstly, good luck Steve :)

    My experience with Alien Swing has not been entirely positive: I loved making it, and I'm proud of what I think is a great game (and it's reviewed pretty well too) but total sales so far have numbered only just over 200 - not enough to pay for the kit, or the art - and while I still hope to turn that around in the future I encourage you not to bet the house on your game.

    I have two pieces of advice based on what I percieve to have gone wrong:

    1. Invest heavily, and early, in marketting. I now think something like a 25-33% of your time, effort and money needs to go into that side of things.

    2. Make sure you slot in below the 20Mb 3G download limit.
     
  10. I would suggest 1 free app, with ads and 1 piece of DLC.

    The DLC would add whatever extra features, and also remove the ads.

    It is important to just have 1 version, because then all the downloads go towards helping it climb the ranks.

    It is important to have the ads and DLC in the game from day one, because otherwise whiners will see it as a bait and switch, and some sort of betrayal of their love.

    Good forms of DLC are extra level, graphic reskins or new game modes. People get angry if DLC is used to help out in the non-DLC game modes, since it lets people "buy their way onto the top of the leaderboards"

    If you go with an online leaderboard option that lets you give out achievements, I suggest you use up most or all of the points. It will help with downloads as people like to boost their total scores.

    If it is going to take a while to finish the game, consider going OS 4.0 so you can use iAds and Game Center
     
  11. headcaseGames

    headcaseGames Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2009
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    Mobile Game Developer
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  12. Foursaken_Media

    Foursaken_Media Well-Known Member
    Patreon Indie

    While it is hard to bust in to a crowded genre, its definitely possible, having gone through the exact same issue. Our first game N.Y.Zombies was able to overcome the title of "just another zombie game" and is currently doing pretty well! Not ground breaking numbers, but we are selling a couple hundred copies a day, which is honestly more then we thought :)

    That being said, you definitely have to have an angle to get noticed. For a crowded genre you probably needs LOTS of style and very solid presentation.

    On the other hand, there is a reason why some of these genres are popular. No matter how many people will say "ugh, another line drawing game?" or "sigh, ANOTHER zombie game?" the fact is people love these types of games. If you can have stellar presentation to make you LOOK better then the competition, and follow with awesome game play to keep people hooked, you should be fine.

    Also as someone mentioned earlier, a beta test is KEY. Beta testers on your side can be worth SO much when it comes to posting impressions and putting a positive spin on your game. Also, if you don't hear back from a sizeable amount of beta testers, something is WRONG! But yeah, generally I would STRONGLY suggest getting as much pre release feedback as you can.
     
  13. StevePerks

    StevePerks Active Member

    Apr 8, 2010
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    Thank you shen, you've suggested a promising sales model. I'm currently thinking that I'll run with this idea that the app will be free, but ad supported. The app with have (like you suggest) one item of DLC which will remove the ads and unlock one of the unique features of the game. This feature will be 'selectable' in the free edition but not actually playable - hopefully enough to tempt users into purchasing the DLC.

    I've already gained so much valuable information from this and other threads on the forum. Thank you everyone, I only hope that as further my knowledge in developing and marketing my game, that I can provide at least a fraction of the help I've received.
     
  14. Keep in mind though that there is a love/hate relationship with the Freemium model. There are those who like it and those who hate it, especially if the DLC you provide are consumables. You have to walk a fine line between giving players enough in the free version to constitute a whole game, and giving away so much that players get bored of it by the end and don't want the DLC.

    I still think going with a Lite/Full combo is the most sensible and cost-effective route to go for a first title, at least in my opinion. You don't have to spend time adding the DLC support code into your game and creating the DLC modules besides, and you can get away with less content in a lite version because it's expected.
     
  15. Grubjelly

    Grubjelly Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2009
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    Try to get your game played by someone famous who has a Twitter habit and many followers, or anyone else capable of endorsing such products. The key, however, is to make sure that those tweeting it actually like the game, which means your game will have to at least be fun for brainstems, and playable while the rest of the mind is asleep. Many of the famous will be intoxicated at the time they tweet the most, so try to factor that into the skill requirements, unless you intend to attract a brainier, more persistent, and\or soberer demographic to your game.
     
  16. Mondae

    Mondae Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2010
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    Perv, why do you care?
    Okay. If you do go the paid route, Make a give-away contest of promocodes. If you go free, have a high score contest for a 15 iTunes card for the highscore. You can also have a naming contest. Definately, you need to have a thread.


    What exactly are You directing? You could market the game style/setting.
     

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