Would the App Store be better if IAP weren't allowed? How much better?

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by HarryWarden, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. HarryWarden

    HarryWarden Well-Known Member

    Aug 22, 2012
    427
    0
    0
    It would do away with freemium games and for that alone, I think it would vastly improve the state of the App Store.
     
  2. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
    12,747
    543
    113
    England
    That'll never happen. Basically freemium games make a lot of money, plus now many indie teams are releasing freemium games as they cant survive due to possible low sales, imagine working on a game with a team of 4 people with no money coming in for 9 months or a year, then the game goes on sale and you read lots of 'gonna wait for a price drop...' type comments.

    Looking at your post history you're quick to go for price drops or free games. This doesnt help devs. If everyone does that they wont make any money

    I'm no huge fan of freemium but it 'can' be done right. Plus devs have to survive, if game x sells for $1.99 and only makes say $10k, but game y is freemium and is racking in a lot of money week in week out its obvious what you would do.

    I still believe in supporting premium priced games, i dont wait for price drops and rarely use promo codes. Want the dev to get as much money as possible so they wont think of going freemium
     
  3. coolpepper43

    coolpepper43 👮 Spam Police 🚓

    Aug 31, 2012
    4,615
    7
    38
    On the toilet
    Yes, just look at the top grossing games on the App Store chart. They are almost all free apps.
     
  4. spader623

    spader623 Well-Known Member

    Jan 18, 2014
    479
    0
    0
    So... Let's say that oh idk, warhammer quest has to be sold with no IAPs. That's a $40 game. Period. You have to pay for all of that. Who the heck would do that? NO ONE. Plus, who wants all the expansions? I tried it, I didn't like it. I don't wanna pay $40 for a game that I don't like. So this is extremely stupid, though I do understand where your coming from. There are other solutions.
     
  5. Bronxsta

    Bronxsta Well-Known Member

    I disagree with this example. Expansions shouldn't be included in the freemium discussion because games on all platforms release DLC expansion content. You don't have to buy expansions to experience a full game.
     
  6. saansilt

    saansilt 👮 Spam Police 🚓

    Mar 23, 2013
    3,291
    0
    36
    The discussion is all IAPs, not just freemium. So his example is valid.
     
  7. spader623

    spader623 Well-Known Member

    Jan 18, 2014
    479
    0
    0
    Exactly. The OP said ALL IAP's. Now if we're talking about freemium stuff, I think it should be worded like 'banning all currency IAP's'
     
  8. Topherunhinged

    Topherunhinged Well-Known Member

    Feb 7, 2014
    422
    0
    0
    #8 Topherunhinged, Apr 13, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
    It's a worthless discussion.

    This crap exists because people buy it, it will continue to exist because people will continue to buy it... and banning it is an outright unnacceptable solution.

    *also, freemium games cannot be done right and it's not my responsibility to support developer survival; either make a product worth paying for or change vocations.
     
  9. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
    12,747
    543
    113
    England
    Dungeon Quest is a brilliant example of a freemium game done right. I've bought a few IAPs so the devs get some money as I'm getting so much fun from this game which doesn't force me to buy anything or had paywalls etc

    It's superb
     
  10. Nobunaga

    Nobunaga Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2012
    1,094
    0
    0
    If anyone feels inclined to know how little their opinion on IAP matters, just go take a look at the top 100 grossing apps.
    If you don't like freemium stuff, don't download it.
    If you don't mind, as long as it's not in your face, take advice from members like PSJ who can maybe guide you to some more decent games with a free entry price.

    I personally disagree with PSJ about "freemium done right".
    I feel that it is almost always set up to seperate rubes from their money. And more of it than the game deserves in most cases as well.
    Or it's set up to be "fair" to a user and the developer/publisher doesn't really profit from the game. Most of us have seen situations where these are the facts. I can't think of a game where I've felt the game wasn't set up to rob people and the developers actually did well off of it.
    I could easily be wrong though.
     
  11. tea

    tea Well-Known Member

    Jul 23, 2010
    142
    3
    18
    This is how investors see it, not players.
    On average only 5-10% of players who DL a free game ever purchase game coins or other IAPs.
     
  12. kmacleod

    kmacleod Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    Jul 1, 2009
    1,865
    1
    36
    Artist / Writer / Designer
    California
    To rephrase that, if those games had launched paid, they'd only see a maximum of 5-10% of downloads. Less people would own the game, less would tell their friends about it, less new players would download it - and so on.

    Look, I hate "premium" games with freemium components as much as the next guy, but there are styles of games that benefit greatly from building a critical mass. At the same time, real game developers DO want to get their games in front of as many people as possible. Freemium components allow that. It allows people who are proud of the product they've created to share it more widely than would be possible with an up-front cost. Just look at Threes vs 2048 for a perfect example of the dangers of picking the wrong business model.

    That doesn't excuse the type of money-grab BS we see these days from supposedly respectable developers, but I'm not in favor of throwing away the system.

    Personally, I think Apple can solve this problem by being much more selective about the games they Feature. They can dictate tastes by curating the App Store - they don't have to merely highlight whatever has the name of a big license behind it.
     
  13. Nobunaga

    Nobunaga Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2012
    1,094
    0
    0
    Investors meaning developers and publishers of games on the AppStore. Ie the people who dictate what makes it to the AppStore. I'm not into rehashing my opinion about freemium or paymium games or consumable IAP vs restorable or DRM, for that matter.
    The fact is freemium tends to make more money. Apple knows it and supports free games over paid because they will make more off it. Developers/publishers are well aware of this fact. They will respond by making more free games. % of players who pay is irrelevant. Games and apps with an upfront cost tend to not do as well monetarily.
    In all honesty I'm almost surprised that any paid games even get released anymore.
     
  14. Jake7905

    Jake7905 Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2013
    1,004
    0
    0
    I would love it if Apple banned all consumable IAP's, that would be a true game changer. Banning all IAP's, including DLC, would be a handicap to developers and consumers alike. Realistically speaking though, that will never happen with the amount of money rolling in.

    Though the real answer to all of the problems concerning IAP (and electronic transactions in general) is tough regulation. As it stands, the internet resembles the Wild West more then a 21st century marketplace. As long as 'anything goes' in the eyes of the law, things like IAP will always be used by crooked people for a quick cash grab.
     
  15. Topherunhinged

    Topherunhinged Well-Known Member

    Feb 7, 2014
    422
    0
    0
    IAP isn't crooked and shouldn't be regulated. Why should it be illegal for people to voluntarily spend their money?
     
  16. sinuous

    sinuous Active Member

    May 8, 2012
    41
    0
    0
    Lead Mobile Developer
    UK
    I'm an oldskool gamer that's been playing games since atari, nes and the original game boy. It took me a while to get into the whole freemium thing and I think the main problem is just how some games use freemium rather than freemium itself being bad.

    Basically games shouldn't be forcing you into IAP's, and should instead be making you feel good.

    Actually my boss recently sent me a video that sums it up pretty nicely, well worth a watch:

     
  17. tea

    tea Well-Known Member

    Jul 23, 2010
    142
    3
    18
    Oh yes it is relevant. There are two minorities of paying players:

    - players who pay for IAPs.
    - players who pay upfront

    Both these categories represent a small % of all players, and they don't very much overlap, so they are basically each a different market, so it's not surprising that people still make paid games.

    Freemium games are just a little hyped (no surprise here either: 'new' market).

    So much so that investors won't even give $ to devs to make a paid game. Now, if all game dev $ goes into freebies, no wonder freebies exceed 70-80% market share. No wonder freebies LOOK ten times more attractive (and catch ten times more flies).

    After the freemium market is completely saturated and the money guys don't see their $ back some will swing and put money into K-pop instead. Others might put their $ back into paid games and it will be the mysterious 'premium revival' as suddenly well produced paid games with a decent budget appear.

    I guess that's why people complain that they get burned when buying paid games. Lots of paid games I buy feel cropped, like they should be 5 times longer or something.

    I'd rather play 1 hours of enjoyable, immersive content than spend 30 minutes play-wondering-when-the-IAP-thing-will-kick-in-and-spoil-my-fun.
     
  18. tea

    tea Well-Known Member

    Jul 23, 2010
    142
    3
    18
    #18 tea, Apr 17, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
    The biggest IAP spenders (a) are often in a low income bracket and (b) spend pathologically, much like gamblers cannot stop themselves from risking cash they don't have.

    It's unethical to use psychological hacks to con people out of money they don't even have, sooner or later a little regulation kicks in.

    With all due respect to the high rollers out there who genuinely love spending $1000s on their IAPs, I think IAPs should, will be, must be regulated.
     

Share This Page