As a lot of indie developers are struggling with trying to find a proper audience, how about we get together to ask Apple for an "Indie" section in the App Store? This way, reviewers and users alike could find indie content (similar to how such a category exists in the Stream store for PC games). For Indie games to be included, they would have to have a team size of equal-below ~3 people (to be defined), and they would probably have to be somewhat original in some way (say, a novel game concept, or a unique type of art concept, or a new take on something existing). Both iPhone and iPad would be OK. Apple could offer a specific queue where we could submit our games. What do you all think?
- No way how you can track how many people worked on a game - "Indie" does mean a variety of things for a variety of people - The AppStore already is one of the indie-friendliest markets you can find - "Original" is a tough term to define, as well Not a good idea at all, to be honest.
I kind of like the idea, although I think it would be difficult to put in to practice. If you had say 2 charts and you decide which one you want to be in ie Main chart or indie chart for instance, people have to look in two places to find your game. More work as customers have to look in two places / do 2 separate searches. I'd like to see some extra for indies, but what that is that would benefit all would take some figuring out.
I like the idea, but not sure how Apple would implement it. Maybe some restriction when you sign up for a developer's membership on the AppStore, during the approval process Apple can determine whether you are a "major" or an "indie" developer. Additionally, I think that for it to succeed the Indie section would also have to have the same genres as the main store, so that user's can still find the strategy, arcade, action, etc. game they're looking for. Sounds like a lot of work for Apple, and not sure what their motivation would be. They're making plenty of money as it is, so is it worth any effort on their part to help indie devs, who generally aren't earning them much? -m
What I'd hope for is a featured indie section, permanently placed next to the 'new and noteworthy' and 'what's hot' tabs in the games section and for each category. I think it'd be easier for Apple to come up with a 'who's not an indie' list and filter out all of those instead of the other way around. Criteria could be notoriety (ie, if Apple employees say 'who is this?' then you're still indie) and/or sales (since Apple certainly keeps track of that).
This....actually might work. Or even just a permanent section anywhere on the featured page. Pick maybe 10 games a week they like and feature 'em. But there'd have to be some boundaries, like it has to have had some sort of update/ come out (and missed N&N in the past month or so...or it could just be a current favorite from apple's selection people...
No, I meant it differently: "Indie" would just be another category, just like right now you can choose to put your game in two categories (say "action" and "arcade"). So Indie games would be in the very same charts as other games. I suppose, as it is, the majority of customers already ignores most subsections, except for "main" apps and "games". However, an Indie section might be read by review blogs who want to give those games a chance. And review blogs (like the terrific TouchArcade!) are certainly read by some users. Sure! Just like now, you'd be able to choose 2 categories for your app (e.g. before you might have chosen "Action" and "Arcade", and now you'd choose "Action" and "Indie"). What do you think is the motivation for Steam to implement this section? I think it's for players who want to find a certain type of content... to find it. http://store.steampowered.com/genre/Indie/ I certainly agree that defining what game is "Indie" is a blurred line, but that's true for any other gaming category as well (is my game "arcade" or "puzzle" or "action" or ...). But perfect is the enemy of good. How about a good-enough Indie section -- "good" because it exposes interesting stuff players otherwise wouldn't have found as easily (because there's no submission queue specifically for original small-team content, and we indie developers get mixed up with marketers who have a much bigger campaign budget)?
Sounds like that category would get very cluttered...very fast! I really don't think it'll make any difference. From our experience, unless u're in top 100, you won't make much! So unless that category only has about 100 games, as soon as it goes over that, u're back to square one - first 100 make money; others don't.
Based on the perceived problem, it almost seems like you guys would want to have a 'Big Publisher' section for the $10M+ companies, rather than boxing in the indie and smaller devs. I'm also wondering if the solution is just having a separate indie section- what's to say that the top indie apps wouldn't dominate this section, limiting discoverability of newer titles and hidden gems (which seems to be the main problem trying to be addressed)
I used to think like this too (have a section for indie devs apps), but in the end, only the BEST APPS or GAMES gets noticed and get sales, period. There is no point of having separate indie section because then, users will shy away from that section definitely. Like, BIG GUNS SECTION. Game A with 500 levels, superb graphics, fun mechanics - 99cents Game B with 500 levels, superb graphics, fun mechanics - 99cents ... INDIE SECTION Game A with 100 levels, mediocre graphics, kinda fun game - 99cents. etc. Which one users are going to buy? Most will just flock BIG GUNS SECTION. UNLESS, apple restrict the lowest price of the Big Gun Section to say, $9.
As mentioned, I believe this section could be of interest to e.g. reviewers looking for original content (and reviewers do influence buying decisions, even if the users won't visit this category on their own). As far as a BIG GUNS vs INDIE section, no, that's not what I had in mind -- as mentioned I was thinking to have "indie" be one of the multiple categories you can choose as it is already. So you'd still appear mixed up with BIG GUNS anyway. What *can* set your game apart, however, would be that it is highly original. The Indie section would not be "mediocre small-team games" but "highly original great fun small team games", in other words, something you'd want to have. As in all other sections, games wouldn't simply appear on top there because you chose the category... but because Apple staff picked them. Talking about levels: one way to generate even more than 500 levels is to have the world be automatically generated with smart randomization. Take the game Tiny Wings, for example, which does that (and was a #1 hit, and was made by exactly 1 guy).
That is why the Indie category won't work. Because there are lot of "indie" who just copy games concept and make it into their own. It's not original anymore. Even Tiny Wings is not original. But the quality and polishing sets it apart from others. But I do agree on the reviewers POV, that they can easily search talent and bring it to the spotlight among the indies. My example up there is just an example. Not literally meaning Big Guns games have more levels. Just that their resources are bigger.
And that's exactly why I mentioned in the beginning of this proposal that there would be two criteria: team size, and originality. Naturally, there's no clear-cut line whether a game is original or not, but the same is true for any other category in the app store. Is your game Action, Puzzle, Arcade, Kids, Family? You often can't tell specifically. But that doesn't matter so much because in the end, it would be Apple reviewers -- like in any other category -- deciding which would make it into the Indie section's Picks. And they could have an eye for original stuff. Steam, as mentioned, already has an Indie section, and as a player I was very interested in it. Sure, the iTunes market is different, but Indie wouldn't need to be a "section to rule them all" or a 100% sure thing, it would just be an interesting new category that players and reviewers could have a look at to discover apps.
Don't think much of this will work. One thing that indie's have to account for is that these "Big gun" games drive traffic to the App store, which gives indie games more chance of getting noticed (if they can). Maybe it's magazine and review sites that could do more by having indie features and indie tab or and indie directory. Maybe write a piece on an indie development team once a week in an indie section. But then again, who's going to trawl through this when time is limited if it's tucked away somewhere?
I think a filter (in a sub-menu) which displayed only indie/hobbyist could work. The developer could choose to tick a box in iTC meta-data, or not. If it was up to Apple (or some agency) to categorise us, then it would appear to the customer like a real shop except that 'we' would appear to be in the bargain-bin yet priced at the same as the rest of the store. Shelf space is not really an issue on the store, not like a real shop. I'm happy to be on the same shelf as everyone else!
Unfortunately, I find over 80% of the AppStore is of Indie quality of late. Far too many clones by "UberCoolTeam", wayyyyy too many clones of clones by "KoolCoderKrewz" and an abundance of "let's take this game, add it with this game, make the graphics crap BUT call them retro because everyone loves retro" by some kid that's just started coding and has registered "BinaryBob" Seriously, the AppStore needs to filter out the sheer utter rubbish what's on there and not add another category.
