Openfeint or Gamecentre ???

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by Lightworx, Jan 16, 2011.

?

Online high score system

  1. Openfeint

    19 vote(s)
    20.9%
  2. Gamecentre

    66 vote(s)
    72.5%
  3. Other

    4 vote(s)
    4.4%
  4. None

    2 vote(s)
    2.2%
  1. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
    1,673
    0
    36
    Berlin, Germany
    are you sure.. maybee you should take a second look.. sounds like you did not implement OF for ipad.. most people who complain about size do not trim anything there is just 3 orientations avaiable iphone hor,vert and ipad general, because of is a centered modalview who looks the same on the ipad in all orientations.. bummer..


    suprisingly its rather a fact.. the general users do not even know what gamecenter or openfeint is.. because is not even close as featured as xbox live.. people do not hunt achievements to have an achievement but to get the score associated with it which gets counted to their global player score..
    opps.. something GC doesnt even have..

    casual gamer do not care about such stuff at all.. but "core" gamers do and they usualy like to have a digitized e-pen-is

    and that gc has no problems is a joke.. offline problem, scores and achievements to registered due to connection problems, easily hackable leaderboards with tons of fake numbers published etc. etc.

    and the centralized ui of OF is a plus not a minus.. if you want you can implement it to have the same behaviour like GC.. open straight the achievement list or any other screen you want.. no one forces a developer to always start at the central dashboard.. but developer are lazy.. so less features to care about is better.. you can even customize the complete UI of OF so fully integrate it into your games experience if you want..


    both have pros & cons.. developer are going with gc, because its simpler to integrate wrong..

    and yes OF is bigger.. which is pretty normal due to the simple fact that it has like 100 more features build in.. yes most people won't use them..
    but most people don't care about achievements anyway.. they would not know the difference if your leaderboards are you own implementation, gamecenter or open feint..

    do you need a life chat? forum? feature suggestions? newsletters? etc.
    most don't.. probably not.. but there are gamers who like the equivalent of xbox live.. this OF is.. nearly as feature rich.

    gc is different, its yet still slim.. so if you fight to keep your app under 20mb and don't need OF features then go GC.. i would currently still suggest to just go with OF 2.8 and GC.. so you get both and people can choose what they want to use.. and you get a login screen with GC too if you are not logged in.. so i don't see the huge difference except that apples api is integrated into the system.. no wonder here..

    so implement what you feel is right for you and your customers..
     
  2. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
    1,673
    0
    36
    Berlin, Germany
    if i would use it i would.. definatly.. at least make something generic so it fits more than one game.. or some nice base skin thats easily changeable to fit to eachs games theme..

    i recently changed over 100 files in open feint.. because i could not stand a single color.. i might be nuts with such tiny details.. but if something bothers me.. i try to get rid of it..
     
  3. FlagellumDei

    FlagellumDei Well-Known Member

    May 14, 2009
    225
    1
    18
    Male
    Programmer
    Use both

    I would say use both. We are using OF and/or GC in iRequiem. Give an option for the user to choose which he/she wants to use. We did this, and I plan to do it in the same way for our upcoming adventure game.
     
  4. TinyTechnician

    TinyTechnician Well-Known Member

    Apr 21, 2010
    211
    0
    0
    Developer
    Los Angeles
    Add another one for GC.

    It might not have all the bells and whistles now but at least I know any future changes Apple makes (regarding 3 party tools, integration, policies etc) will not affect what I'm working on now.

    So yeah, going the safe route and hoping that Apple is secretly working on GC features. A huge GC overhaul/update would be nice and is not far from how Apple likes to update things...well some things at least ;)
     
  5. thewiirocks

    thewiirocks Well-Known Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    618
    0
    0
    Expert Software Engineer
    I think the theory that end-players do not care about OF vs. Game Center has just been disproven:

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?threadid=82492

    Note the direct references to OF and GC. In reference to the "e-penis" comments, it seems from the post that GC Achievements are the new "e-penis".
     
  6. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
    1,673
    0
    36
    Berlin, Germany

    wow a single thread with 2 post on a gaming related forum.. i'm shocked to be so disproved... just shocked about this amazing turning event in social gaming.. i feel lucky to be a tiny part of this moment..

    sorry for my sarcasm.. but.. what the heck?!?!!?
     
  7. Alistair Aitcheson

    Alistair Aitcheson Well-Known Member

    Jan 30, 2011
    103
    0
    0
    Game Developer
    Wiltshire, UK
    As a player, I prefer Game Center just because it seems less intrusive. I myself found myself irritated by the OF intro screens on games at first, whereas GC blends in more quietly, and it's an official Apple thing so seems more trustworthy. After I learned a bit more about what OF was I was happy to put my trust in it, but I was initially reluctant to use it.

    As a developer, it's very interesting to read about all your thoughts on this. I've not implemented either into my game yet, but I'm at the stage where I probably will soon. My current inclination is to go with GC, but it's really useful to hear from developers who've already used them. Useful reading :)
     
  8. jasoncitron

    jasoncitron Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2009
    57
    0
    0
    Founding Craftsman of Hammer & Chisel. Previously
    San Francisco
    #28 jasoncitron, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
    Hey Guys -- Jason here from OpenFeint. Sounds like there are some good thoughts here about how to improve. Specifically, I would love to hear more about how you guys think we could change the sign up flow to make your gamers feel excited about it. The awesome features thing was intended to be a bit tongue and cheek ;-)

    Anyway, lots of developers have chosen to go with OF + GC through our GC Compatibility tools. You get full GC support + offline + lots of other magic sauce (and cross platform once you port to Android).

    AFA file size goes, it's possible to compress the art further and remove orientations or entire sections of the UI if you don't want them. (open source! yay!). If you're specifically struggling with this, please reach out to me and we'll help you fit OF in your size limit.

    And for the record, we very rarely make breaking changes to the API :)

    Please e-mail me directly or hit me up on twitter @jasoncitron if you have ANY questions, rants, or constructive criticism. Always trying to improve.
     
  9. GregH

    GregH Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2009
    479
    0
    0
    I've been quite happy with OpenFeint for Super Fly. Game Center seemed to force you to do too much yourself. OpenFeint was more of a complete solution. Nice that they're on Android now too.
     
  10. steveios

    steveios Active Member

    Jan 31, 2011
    28
    0
    0
    Now that was truely funny Lol!!
     
  11. thewiirocks

    thewiirocks Well-Known Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    618
    0
    0
    Expert Software Engineer
    Not really. The thread is simply public evidence of what I've been hearing from customers. Take it for what you will. But what I'm seeing is that customers are more worried about GC than OF at this point.
     
  12. pierotofy

    pierotofy Active Member

    Nov 8, 2009
    36
    0
    0
    Game Centre. Openfeint is too bloated imho. Plus I like having my users having my games in the Game Centre app and being able to monitor all of their results and achievement from a single app.
     
  13. steveios

    steveios Active Member

    Jan 31, 2011
    28
    0
    0
    Thank you again for yet another laugh. I hope Mr.Ugly doesnt come back to EPIC OWN you again .My stomach cannot take such laughter. Seroiusly the people here do not represent the general gamers. General gamers have 40-50 games , do you think they track the score on all of them? No. Some member complain oh I want openfaint , then a day or 2 later they completely forget about it. Listen I been a lucker here for a while before I decided to become a member. I tell you a secret , at least 30% of members here complain about everything. They complain oh this feature is missing , oh that feature is missing. Oh the TA reviewer doesnt know what he is talking about. I seen them complain drasticaly graphics and especially price.OMG the price fights here have been EPIC to the point of ridiculous. One guy wanted Dead Space for $1.99 he claimed price was too high. If half the people here wanted social features trust me there will be threads here all day about it. Right now all people complain is about when are we getting console quality games.
     
  14. thewiirocks

    thewiirocks Well-Known Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    618
    0
    0
    Expert Software Engineer
    "Epic Own"? (raises eyebrow) I think you're missing something. I am a game author with very real customers with whom I communicate with. As in, speak to directly. And I make decisions about the game and its updates based on their general feedback.

    This is not the two year old pissing contest you seem to think this is. This is business. As in, dollars and cents. If you would be so kind, please refrain from posting in the future. The adults are having a conversation.
     
  15. Lightworx

    Lightworx Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2010
    134
    0
    0
    Italy
    Thank you for all the comments. I have decided to drop Openfeint and turn to GC in the future.

    I think the biggest problem for me was something that Mr Ugly picked up on earlier in the thread. The white screen error appearing when you started the game. This just killed Arkinvade.

    I had just released a major update, made it free for a day to encourage people to try it and go figure. This is the release of OF with the white screen bug. What do I get?

    Loads of reviews. All 5* from the people who could run it, All 1* (and really slagging it off) from the people who got the white screen. Thanks OF!

    Now when somebody grabs a game from the app store and tries to play it, if it does not work then they place the fault at the feet of the developer. So I get a load of bad reviews about this white screen and it is not even my fault. And those reviews stay and affect the sales of the game.

    So a month of hard work down the drain and a failed game. How much of the blame can I apportion to OF? Not all, but it really did not help. NOT ONE BIT.
     
  16. NinthNinja

    NinthNinja Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2011
    441
    0
    0
    Lets think of the bigger picture...

    Game Center lacks a hell of a lot of features that Openfeint has:

    1. Blob data connected to high scores - used for ghost racing and such.
    2. You can have only 25 leaderboards for a game - Openfeint has no such limit. What happens if you have more than 25 levels?
    3. No promotion.

    But the biggest thing is Game Center is tied to iOS, so what do you do when you want to convert to Android?

    The best solution is to use Openfeint, and from within OF enable Game Center. This way it's easy to go over to Android and you have Game Center. And just hope you make a game that's limited to 25 leaderboards.

    Also, to note you can bypass the OF dash and create your own UI from within the game. This way it looks like OF is not there but it is handling all your online needs.
     
  17. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
    1,673
    0
    36
    Berlin, Germany
    at the end there is no need to fight about such things..

    most people do not care.. thoose who care know what thoose service are more or less.. and prefere one or the other..

    yes the open feint login is not very well designed.. but other parts are..

    both services have their own positive and negative points and its up to every developer themself to offer what they want to their customers.. its their product and their right to choose.

    at the end its not a big deal anyway.. check some of the most popular games compare their leaderboard size with their sales numbers and you see that tons of people don't even use leaderboards and achievements etc..

    the ios platform is still and foremost a platform for casual gamers..

    thats this page is more populated with core gamer is natural.. and therefore such features are more important to them.
     
  18. thewiirocks

    thewiirocks Well-Known Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    618
    0
    0
    Expert Software Engineer
    If I may be so bold, you're my new hero. You just correctly used "core" gamers (the marketing term) instead of "hardcore" gamers (a self-identified subset of the market). Something which very few people get right. Kudos! :)

    I don't disagree. I think the bigger question is one of, "Which way should I lean?" If you need the extra stuff added by OF, then by all means use it. If you don't, then the question arises if you should use OF anyway or go pure GC?

    The argument in favor of OF is obvious. "OF doesn't hurt anything, so why not use it? Plus you have additional marketing opportunities."

    The argument against is multifaceted:

    • A potential source of bugs
    • More difficult to implement correctly (with the flip side that get GC without implementing a UI)
    • There may be a cost in terms of user confusion. Two logins, two scores, two interfaces. It gets even weirder because OF reports both the GC and OF scores side-by-side. If you configure the GC score formatting different from the OF formatting, the weirdness gets cranked up further.
    • OpenFeint releases new versions regularly which must be integrated, QAed, and tested. If they change the APIs (which they have done at least twice) then re-integration gets even harder. Any customizations you may have will have to be redone.

    Authors will have to decide which way they lean in these situations. What their customers say will likely play a large part in their final decision. Mine are all in favor of eliminating OF, so that's the direction I'm going. :)
     
  19. chanon

    chanon New Member

    Aug 13, 2009
    4
    0
    0
    May I ask, which version of OF was that? So I may stay away from it as I've had a similar issue before.
     
  20. rodger_hu

    rodger_hu New Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    3
    0
    0
    Programmer
    Beijing
    Yup, OF can using more leaderboards, GC so little.
    so, support OF.
     

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