Cleaning up the underbelly of the app stores!

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by Syndicated Puzzles, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Syndicated Puzzles

    Syndicated Puzzles Well-Known Member

    #1 Syndicated Puzzles, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
    Apple is now treating updates and new releases equally now. Most developers including my team never had an ounce of faith that this concept could ever work. We were very wrong.

    Surprisingly it has been very positive for iLifeTouch so far. We are putting less emphasis on new builds and we have a more comfortable balance between new builds and updates. Our existing apps are actually being improved.

    The extra workload was handled well by Apple and the reviewers even released most apps for Xmas.

    So here is the reason for this post.

    The underbelly of the store that most of us fall victim to sooner or later in my opinion can be improved and cleaned up.


    Here are some clean up ideas that are open for discussion.

    1. To remain on the store apps must be updated every 6 months.

    2. Paid apps must reach a certain dollar amount every year to remain on the store.

    3. Free apps that don't reach a certain download number are eliminated automatically

    4. Apps that appear abandoned are removed from the store.

    .........

    I think this would help everyone in a positive way. The store needs to be pruned to make room for new growth.
     
  2. mobile1up

    mobile1up Well-Known Member

    Nov 6, 2008
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    mm.. what happens when the application is complete and doesn't need updating? :)
     
  3. WeeAllan

    WeeAllan Active Member

    Sep 8, 2011
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    I agree with some of your points, There are a lot of applications out there that are cluttering up the store.

    But there are a few apps out there that have a lot of potential, but havent been marketed correctly so havent recieved the amount of downloads they should have, having a barrier that apps must beat could get rid of a lot of these applications

    Allan
     
  4. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    whats with devs who flood the appstore with reskinned stuff over and over? who release more than questionable products and call that quality?

    the appstore is cleaning itself due to being a subscription based program..

    if your app does not well most devs won't prolonge their subscription and therefore their apps get removed from the store..

    i don't see any validity in any of the four points.. but a strong one from 1up..

    its obvious that the appstore is not about quality nor quantity (which you prefer) but about a simple open playfield anyone can participate for 99$ a year

    its openness is the reason the appstore is such a success and putting anymore limitations behind it won't make it better..

    also its pretty pointless to scrape off the bottom feeder of the store.. since they do not attract much interest anyway.. so how can the mass amount of scrap down there get in the way of the top notch products you see swimming atop?

    angry birds will stay in the top 10 no matter if they are a hundred app out there who make 1$ a day or 100.000.. it does not matter.. except for apple themself.. of course.. having a store with 500k apps in them is alot better press than having one with 50k ... that attracts new customers..
     
  5. mobile1up

    mobile1up Well-Known Member

    Nov 6, 2008
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    this is 100% true. if your apps make less than the $99 subscription fee - or you simply cannot be bothered to support/maintain your account.. the applications will go away. i guess, if apple wanted to be nasty they could increase this fee to $9999.99 per year and we'll quickly see a number of people jumping ship. this is kinda the inhibitive pricing system that nintendo/sony do with their handheld consoles..

    question is - would you have signed up for apple/ios development if it was not $99 USD/year? seems you like the easy entry point but do not want others to have it so easy as well. the app store is a market place; will always be competition and noise.
     
  6. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2009
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    Update activity is not necessarily strongly correlated to quality or saleability.


    We have several games not updated for at least that long that still sell hundreds of copies a day and have high ratings. Should they be pulled down?

    We recently had a game not updated for 9 months get into the US Top 10 Paid Overall. Should it have been pulled down instead?


    How could Apple possibly determine without doubt whether an app has been "abandoned"?
     
  7. Syndicated Puzzles

    Syndicated Puzzles Well-Known Member

    All good points. I guess what really comes out of this is the fact that the underbelly is just the place where apps hibernate and disappear out of plain view. The access to an open market is probably the most important point of all. Placing limitations on a free marketplace is probably not such a great idea raising the subscription price to 299,- would probably have a more profound cleansing effect.
     
  8. Renegadecitizen

    Renegadecitizen Well-Known Member

    Sep 4, 2010
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    good conversation
    the TA forums rule
     
  9. smashdev2011

    smashdev2011 Well-Known Member

    Nov 29, 2011
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    Near San Fran

    How long have you been making games?
     
  10. schplurg

    schplurg Well-Known Member

    I haven't updated Daredevil Dave since July, 2010 :eek: It's about #45 in racing as of this moment and hasn't fallen below 50 for more than a few moments at a time since it was released in May, 2010. (Topped out at app store #6 or 8) So no, I'm definitely not for rule #1 in the OP.

    I'm not at all crazy about Apple reverting back to the "old days" where updates were on the same list as new releases. Why not make a separate section for updates? With over a half million apps in the store, you know this is going to get abused.

    They should at least have a limit to how often an update can be released, with exceptions for emergencies maybe. Otherwise, have fun sorting through the weekly updates for every crap-app in the store.

    You may make more money this way for now, but once everyone else gets on board it's going to be a mess.

    I do plan on doing a lot of content additions after the initial release of Dave 2. Having said that, I am still against updates sharing the new release list.
     
  11. Syndicated Puzzles

    Syndicated Puzzles Well-Known Member

    schplurg,

    The new system definitely fails the small indies that have worked 8 months and have risked everything building their first app. Ending up on page five on opening day because of all the updated apps is very (very) depressing and sucks big time. ( I would sit in a dark corner and start to cry if I was starting out again) The updating system truly favours companies that actually have enough apps to update and can balance themselves on their own platform of apps.
     
  12. Rocotilos

    Rocotilos Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2009
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    Change a color of the background, and put a v1.1 update for "bug fixes"? ;)
     
  13. VRPgames

    VRPgames Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2011
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    #13 VRPgames, Jan 7, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
    Apple does not review apps any more - robots do. You can submit low quality apps or just screenshots and they will be approved. This is the main reason why the App Store is so messy and cluttered. Approval process must be strict.
     
  14. mobile1up

    mobile1up Well-Known Member

    Nov 6, 2008
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    if it was "robot" done - it would be almost instant :) not the 7-14 days it is now.
     
  15. Syndicated Puzzles

    Syndicated Puzzles Well-Known Member

    Interesting point! The divide!

    The app store is divided into two groups.

    Serious apps and apps that basically are built to never function.

    VRPgames is talking about the group of apps that are traps to steal buyers money.

    Latest example of this are all the 9 Dot security apps. [We built one ourselves that we had to turn into a secure book because it is impossible to lock an iPhone] Basically a screenshot and some strange wording and voila your device has a security system that pretends to lock your phone. Add 50 + five star reviews defending the fake one star reviews telling people it is a rip off, some shiny graphics (stainless steel and a glowing effect) and these apps attract endless sheep that want to walk off the cliff and hand over .99 cents as passage..

    Some of them hit it big and have reached the top 20 overall charts recently.
    These apps get approved very easily since they have no functionality and have very little code attached to them.

    Real apps displaying a huge effort go through hell sometimes to get approved. These are the apps Aaron is talking about. 7 to 14 days is about right for complex solid builds.

    Maybe the underbelly of the store should be these fake apps that find your phone, x-ray bones, scan finger prints etc. but for some reason these fake quickies always seem to shine bright and clear making large amounts of money while solid efforts keep supplying the underbelly with nutrients.
     
  16. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2009
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    15 years.
     
  17. EssentialParadox

    EssentialParadox Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    Wait. Sorry for my ignorance on this as I've been away... but Apple have reverted back to the system they originally had, where updates were treated like new games? Since when?

    Wasn't the whole reason they stopped this in the first place to ensure only *new releases* were put into the *new releases* section?

    Could this just be a temporary mistake on Apple's part?
     
  18. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2009
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    I think since late October or early November. I forget exactly.


    Given they don't really explain much of anything they do, that was speculation on behalf of the dev community anyway.


    Unlikely.
     
  19. Syndicated Puzzles

    Syndicated Puzzles Well-Known Member

    EssentialParadox,

    The real surprising factor to this treatment of all submissions being equal is the additional expense to Apple. I would roughly estimate that 40 % more apps are submitted to be reviewed. I would put a time factor of 25 % more time since updates should be quicker to review. So it is costing Apple 25% more man hours to implement this new scenario. in corporate America this means Apple sees merit and is willing to finance the cost.

    As far as I can see anyone that has over 30 active apps and the staff in place to improve and update their apps regularly wins. Welcome to the new economy of the app store where new releases aren't the main focus anymore. Updating the old is just as lucrative as creating the new. I think the big difference right now is the app store has enough apps now it is time for quality to beat out quantity.
     
  20. RJ1

    RJ1 Member

    Jan 9, 2012
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    I definitely think you make some good points here. I have paid $15 for an app that was never updated and crashes when loading on an iOS 5 device. This kind of thing is frustrating.
     

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