IAP open letter

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by grits, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. grits

    grits Well-Known Member

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    Can someone explain the strategy of getting a few loyal customers to spend way more money than it's worth to support a bunch of people playing a game for free? This seems like a really dirty strategy. Wouldn't it be better to have everyone pay a small amount rather than make your most loyal customers pay a ton of money? On top of that, the majority of players will have half a game for free while the other people are paying upwards of $100 for a full game that should be $5. Doesn't sit well with me. Doesn't even seem like a profitable idea.
     
  2. Echoseven

    Echoseven Moderator
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    People don't pay.

    That's the problem. A free game will get a whole lot more downloads than even a .99 game.
    And if you don't give people an upper limit, people suddenly lose the ability to regulate themselves and pay a lot more than they would if the original purchase was limited at 0.99 or 1.99
     
  3. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    #3 Rubicon, Nov 1, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
    Some basic points first:

    1) Developers don't 'make' you pay anything.
    2) Free to play games are generally free to play. How is that bad?
    3) Almost all iOS spenders don't mind - they're not all tightwads like the tiny but very vocal minority who seem to get off on bitching about nearly free prices permanently.
    4) If you don't like it, don't buy it. Well, don't freeload it.
    5) A lot of customers like this. I'm one of them - I can pay what I feel a game is worth and if the cost balance is off I just move on, there's plenty of choice.

    The main strategy here is to sell their work for a profit, which allows them to raise money to pay their staff, their mortgages and meet their running costs. The profit left over allows them to start the next project. This is not something most devs can achieve when having to sell premium games for a really low price not seen anywhere else in the games industry.

    This is all based on economics 101 and not at all based on the whining complaints of a tiny bunch of people who think they have an automatic right to play games for next to nothing.

    Here's a quick history check. In the early days, a lot of utter crap was released to the app store and a race to the pricing bottom was soon had to try and get customers for those shite apps/games. I'm looking at you, iFart. You can afford to do this when your development takes a month max and this set an early trend of "one dollar max" for iPhone games.

    Several years on, this has transmogrified into a situation where people now:
    1) Expect to pay only a dollar regardless of game quality/dev time and feel entitled to an explanation when they cost more.
    2) Expect games to constantly get bigger and better without costing more.
    3) Expect regular free content updates.


    I hope that helps.
     
  4. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    ^Agree with a fair few points above.

    The reason more and more devs are turning to freemium is because (in my view) too many iOS players wait for price drops/games to be free. You hear it all the time from devs, have 300 sales in a month, change it to free and they get 20,000 downloads !

    If we buy more games at full price i'm sure we'll get more and more iOS games, devs need to put food on the table. Freemium sadly is working as in it generates a lot more money for devs.

    People now expect 40,000 levels for their 99c game, or moan when theres not tons of game centre achievements, i see it all the time 'game looks great but i'll wait for game centre....' i mean come on.

    And again my old man rant, games are SOOO cheap, a lot of kids dont realise how lucky they are, in the 80's games were mostly $10-15 each and there was a LOT of rubbish back then. Now you get quality games for the price of a burger or two and STILL people wait for price drops as they dont want to fork out for the 'pricey' 2 dollar game !

    I'm quite happy buying a game on the day of release knowing that the dev should get more money than if i waited a month for a price drop.
     
  5. Vovin

    Vovin 👮 Spam Police 🚓

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    #5 Vovin, Nov 1, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012

    Thanks for speaking clearly. It's not usual today and not liked by the price trolls also... especially when a dev raises his voice.

    I'd like to add one thing:

    it's not only the fault of some cheapskates - it's also a fault of sites like FAAD (Free App A Day) or apps like Daily App Dream. They teach the people to wait because they try to make the most games free anyway. You can actually WISH for a game to drop to 0$. They are spoiling the customers. Initial revenues were higher for the devs before that free-app-site-sh!t.
     
  6. Royce

    Royce Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    Data to back up this sweeping statement? Large scale surveys, etc. or assumption/guess/what you want to believe?

    Anyway, the best point you made is that they're free, so if it's exploitative I can just delete it with no loss. Paidmium is what really grinds my gears. With freemium or paidmium, one of the major problems is you never know going in, or even after playing for some time, what the game will really "cost" to get what you were expecting out of the game. That's okay if it's free to download, but an entry fee for a gamble on the developer's interest in making money vs. actually creating a fun experience for the player isn't right. And that right there is the central issue with freemium/paidmium. Making fun games and making money used to go pretty much hand in hand. If a game is good it's more likely to sell, and make more money. With the rise of IAP, developers actually have to balance fun with frustration, time consuming grinding for the sake of grinding, and other negative factors that may influence a player to shell out cash to overcome. It puts developers and gamers at cross purposes, and all of a sudden it feels like we're working against one another.
     
  7. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    #7 Rubicon, Nov 1, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
    I was tempted to simply answer "I don't need any data because all the whiners that say "games should cost 10c, developers must do X, etc" don't provide any either.

    However, there are plenty of ways to back up my statements and probably the easiest one is to contrast the sales chart by download with the sales chart by gross income. You won't find much overlap. Or there are several industry sites reporting on it continually. There's even something in App Annie atm, all based on actual sales data. It's there and public if you want to look for it.

    This may come as quite a shock to many, but there's a lot of people out there that are quite happy to pay to indulge their hobbies, some of which are computer games, and I'm damned sure they wouldn't be too happy about the self-entitlement brigade referring to them as morons etc.
     
  8. Royce

    Royce Well-Known Member

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    That's really a pretty loose correlation with numerous potential confounding factors but whatever, I'm not gonna argue with you. Do me a favor though and stop linking completely cheap players and those who dislike freemium/paidmium. It's not that black and white at all. I would love it of iOS had more high quality/high priced games. I am nowhere near cheap and I dislike those models. I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one.
     
  9. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    #9 Rubicon, Nov 1, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
    Yeah I'm not aiming any of that at anyone in particular, just giving the dev's side, which is often sadly lacking when these things break out. Probably because I'll start getting slammed shorty for it.

    I agree with your point that some publishers and developers overdo some of these mechanics, but again its free choice. The ultimate way to vote or make an opinion felt is with the wallet.
     
  10. bramblett05

    bramblett05 Well-Known Member

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    It's about who the developer is as well that's why angry birds seek well while there is a game 2.99 that is better but then also there's games by known developers that you pay 4.99 the game suddenly hits a iap wall and forces you to buy just to continue because the level or whatever is unbeatable. Rubicons war games are a great way iap is done not 4.99 for coins and so forth but for added value to the games.
     
  11. awp69

    awp69 Well-Known Member

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    I hate IAPs in general, but am learning to accept reality. I don't mind IAPs for "shortcuts" to get further in a game quickly, full unlocks of games and add-ons. Even freemium games with "paywalls" are okay as long as it's a one-time thing that allows you to get past that paywall.

    The main IAP that I cannot stand is consumables or other IAPs that you don't see an end to. I want to go into a game knowing how much it's going to cost me. And if you're having to "pay up" repeatedly throughout a game, then you don't know if you're going to pay $5 or $100 to enjoy a game fully. And, what's unfortunate, is that those high grossing app charts are usually full of games like this because once you're roped in, some people don't want to stop.

    And that's that person's judgement, but I just avoid those types of games completely. I'm far from being "cheap" when it comes to buying apps. But there's a sleaziness about consumable IAPs and that's where I draw the line. Much rather pay a premium price upfront.

    And the other thing I can't rightfully get behind is when a dev changes their business strategy (ie. going from paid to freemium). I understand why devs do it and there's been some examples of devs handled changes like this in a professional manner and rewarded those who paid early. However, I'd say the vast majority of devs who do this don't give a rats a** about those who paid for it early. And it's those devs who don't get my business the second time around.

    IAPs are here to stay, but that doesn't mean that devs can just throw away all ethics and treat them as purely a way to empty wallets. There are fair ways to use IAPs and still generate revenue (like those I initially listed).

    And, the only way to really fight the devs who do abuse IAPs, is with your wallets. Yet there's a block of casual gamers and kids that shell out the money anyway. And that hurts iOS gaming as a whole IMO.
     
  12. eev

    eev Well-Known Member

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    #12 eev, Nov 1, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
    @Rubicon
    i think op talks about freemium stuff, not like iaps in your games.

    actually most of devs do not understand that the majority of iphone games they write are just bad or meh and really can not be compared with normal pc or console titles and of course should not be that expensive like them. and it does not matter how long do you need to get the game done, only results are important. sure pc or console games has more budget but they also need much more money to earn because of that. what i want to say is that square enix, cave games or some console quality titles sell good at premium price points. so it's not only how cheap ios users are. ios games get users they deserve.
     
  13. BazookaTime

    BazookaTime Well-Known Member

    Fact is, the majority of people want free games, not only that but they have come to expect them.

    The best way to make money now days is to offer a free game so that tons of people download it and then offer some appealing iap to try and make some money. If the iap isn't appealing or the game isn't any good, the consumer really isn't paying anything and is getting to try the game for free.

    My wife plays all if the popular "free" games and never spends a penny. She is a casual gamer and has no problem waiting for her energy to refill or whatever.

    Iap isn't bad depending on how it is handled and ultimately it is up to the consumer to spend money or not. In a way the developer hands over all of the power to the player since no one is required to buy anything.
     
  14. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    #14 Rubicon, Nov 1, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
    Check. I wasn't defending GBWG though tbh. We have talked internally about switching to ftp for future titles as we're just not raising enough income to continue developing stuff the old way. (To put that in context, ours isn't a "meh" game. IGN gave it 95% and the last title to manage that was Skyrim! It's fairly niche so we never expected to make angry birds money, but at the end of the day a game that touch arcade gave 5 stars can't support its dev team and that should tell you a lot. Nor is this a whine, I'm just explaining that even quality titles struggle to earn. Apols for the hubris there, it was kinda needed to make the point)

    One fact in all this is that if you're like us - a 7 man team - then you need a fairly hefty income just to exist at all, and we're right on that line. Over in freemium territory you can earn at a useable level even without being in the top 100. After all, there's only room for 100 developers in that top 100 no matter how good their games are.

    Whilst I'n sure some developers are acting out of greed - and I'm looking at the iap in angry birds as a good example - most of us are just trying to exist. That's not going away whilst games have to cost 3 bucks or less to even get looked at.
     
  15. eev

    eev Well-Known Member

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    #15 eev, Nov 1, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
    that's actually f up stuff with ios, honestly i would pay and 10 and 20 bucks for really good indie game without any problems. for something like jcs or hook champ with a bit more content for example (can not comment on your games because in this genre i like only ja type of games). well, maybe there will be also niche market with premium prices for really good games. the problem with all these freemium games is that most of them are simply boring or just some stupid games without specific aims like tiny tower, dragonvile etc. but still to the topic, op has valid point but i just looked at top 200 grossing list and omg i get it why devs switch to it. apple should really allow porn in appstore, because the top 200 list won't look worse anyway.
     
  16. Royce

    Royce Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    And that's one reason I think it's silly to assume most iOS users don't mind freemium/paidmium stuff. Even if someone could provide evidence that most users play freemium or event that they spend money on freemium, that doesn't mean they don't mind it. They're just playing the junk that is currently being made available on the platform. Many people who spend on freemium end up feeling like they got played by the game and resent the purchases they have made. Freemium/paidmium exploits some of our worst qualities, impulsiveness, short sightedness, compulsive consumerism, the inner gambler, etc. And no matter how you slice it, the simple fact that games are being made with the monetization model as a driving factor in determining gameplay is a bad thing. I don't understand how any intelligent person could think differently.
     
  17. #17 Connector, Nov 1, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
    But this is kind of a two way street with the developers too. About 6 months ago, for some reason, many developers started shafting early adopters and making games free or reductions within a week, then some in 3 days... And some developers are making a premium game into a freemium game on the first update, sometimes within a week, which makes early adopters feel even worse...

    Of course this is going to make loyal early adopters like myself very leary of being taken advantage of, and stop being early adopters and wait a month or more for the app to turn free or on sale.

    But other than that, I agree with your comments.
     
  18. Ndemic Creations

    Ndemic Creations Well-Known Member

    I really agree with this - great point. There should always be a value story - the player must feel like they got a specific 'thing' for their money and they should be pleased with their purchase in the long run. Their purchase should be something they recommend to their friends - not a dirty little secret that they try to hide.

    It is very hard to achieve the above with consumables and I always avoid them as a player.

    If you want to read some really scary/upsetting stuff - check this article out http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/11/meet-the-whales/
     
  19. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    I read that earlier, funnily enough.

    But I find the idea of some rich kid spending $1,000 to advance through a game quicker no less ridiculous than a guy one-starring our game because he paid 25 cents for it in a promo, got to level 20 after *10 hours* of playtime and found one of the missions a bit boring. True story.

    Hell, I'm no advocate of freemium and to date have not made one. But after looking at all the issues I can at least see both sides. And the saftey valve is that if a player feels uncomfortable paying $100 for a bag of fertiliser he can just uninstall.

    A point that is also being missed is that freemium has the word free in it. If the app is done right you should be able to play the game for free. If you *have* to pay then it's not freemium, it's a con job. Don't pay. If we do do a freemium title, there won't be a paywall.
     
  20. eev

    eev Well-Known Member

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    #20 eev, Nov 1, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
    quite interesting that someone who earns good money would spend that much on such stupid games. i would not call people who have good jobs idiots even if probably some of them are, so it means it is just addiction. the point made by playhaven's idiot yang is not valid, yeah compare real life with a piece of software. and agree with the stuff Royce wrote, great point for sure. well there is still market for good games so it's ok.

    if there would be enough games with both premium and freemium systems it would be ok, but the problem is that freemium is a trend for many developers now so it affects actually all players.
     

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