Game Developer in 2013

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by Chronical, Sep 7, 2009.

  1. Chronical

    Chronical Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2009
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    St. Gallen, Switzerland
    Hey Guys.
    I'm now 14 and I don't know what to do, I have to decide what kind of route for my upcoming life I want to take.
    So, I went to the OBA (Ostschweizer Bildungs-Ausstellung) It's sort of a place where schools show what you can do when you're older, and then I found my most anticipated job -
    Game Developer.
    So there's a school called "qantm" here in Zurich, (Link) and there you can study 3D and 2D designing for one year.
    Now I also wanted to study English or go to another school, because you have to be 18 years old to go to the "qantm" school.
    Now my question is, how much do you get paid, and is it worth it in 2013, because I really don't know it.
    Oh and, I already searched on the net, but I think the "Game Developer-Branche" will be a little bit, say.. different in 2013!
    And I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but I don't really want to go into iPhone Developing, maybe something on the PC or PSP.
    My second-last question:
    If I now would study 3d designing, and things like this, do you just design games for a single platform?
    So my last question.
    What do you think of my English knowledge?
    I wrote everything here out my head, no Leo-Translator or anything like that.
    The reason for this question is because you have to bring a good English knowledge with you in this school, and I still got 4 years to go, but I just wonder how I'm doing now.
    I'd really appreciate your help,
    best regards.
     
  2. micah

    micah Well-Known Member

    Aug 24, 2009
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    game developer
    San Francisco
    I think your English is great! I couldn't tell you weren't a native speaker.

    A lot of game design, game development, and 3d graphics is exactly the same no matter what platform you're working on -- which is why you see so many games ported to different platforms, they're reusing a lot of code.

    This looks like a good school and you should totally go to it if you want to. But also, since you're 14 and probably don't need to work to pay the rent yet, now is a perfect time to start designing and programming games on your own. I'd bet the big majority of game devs didn't go to college for this. There are tons of books out there about beginning game development, and there's tons of resources on the internets. Believe me, it's much harder to try to find the time to learn all the aspects of game development when you have to work 40 hours a week doing something different.
     
  3. arkanigon

    arkanigon Well-Known Member

    Dec 24, 2008
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    Your english is great.

    The school sounds like a great idea. I say go for it. Even if you can't get a job as a game developer in 2013, your skills will still be in demand in other fields... programming will always be in demand, so will 3d designing...

    But as micah said, you can start making games right now... pick a platform, start learning...
     
  4. yas

    yas Well-Known Member

    Aug 7, 2009
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    Rōnin developer
    #4 yas, Sep 7, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
    I wouldn't recommend a game school unless they give you a college degree in either fine arts or computer science/engineering. A game design degree is pretty worthless, if you ask me. You can learn a lot of game design principles on your own. You're 14, so you have a big head start on this.

    There'a bunch of things you can download for free (source code, level editors, etc.) to start making games. Maybe you might want to join a modder community as a start.

    If you have programming skills, you can basically get a job in any industry that requires software and you should be able to make decent money in 2013. You will always have the option of making games if you want.

    As for art, anyone can learn how to mess with Max or Maya. Anyone can be a 3D software operator monkey, but not anyone can be an artist. After you get your fine arts degree, you can learn how to learn Max or Maya at the school you mentioned on your link.

    In terms of salary, you can expect the following kind of salary (in the US):

    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23264

    European/UK developers tend to pay less compared to the US (in my experience, maybe around 20~30% less). In general, you will make more money as an an engineer or a production manager in a senior position. You will make a lot more money if you're a programmer specializing in areas like rendering/physics tech and software optimization. Statistical data analysis will probably be a lot more important in the near future for games like MMO's that involve economies.

    At the end of the day, you should do what you want to do the most and makes you happy. Just make sure that you have a back up plan.

    Your English is just fine, btw. :)
     
  5. Chronical

    Chronical Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2009
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    St. Gallen, Switzerland
    Thanks for your help, arkanigon and micah!
    Ok, I will start learning as soon as possible, and that's right now.
    Could you tell me with which programs I should begin with? I already got Maya from a friend, how's this?
    I also wanted to make a 2d game, and afterwards (maybe next year) a 3d project. Nothing special, just to test my skills.
     
  6. rdklein

    rdklein Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2009
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    sw developer, tv producer, hw developer (microcodi
    Munich
    #6 rdklein, Sep 7, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
    Qantm ist really good, a school is also next to munich, I was supposed to become teacher in munich for virtools some years ago at that place.
    Still having contact through another teacher, they currently use Unity engine for mobile development for example, which is state of the art.
     
  7. arkanigon

    arkanigon Well-Known Member

    Dec 24, 2008
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    I don't know anything about maya. Do you have a mac or a pc?

    If you have a mac, you could download the iphone sdk for free, and just try running some programs on the simulator...

    Or maybe the XNA game studio:

    http://creators.xna.com/en-US/downloads

    for windows games...
     
  8. Chronical

    Chronical Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2009
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    St. Gallen, Switzerland
    Thanks man!
    You wrote that faster than I wrote my answer :D
    I don't know your school system, it's a little bit different in Switzerland I suppose.
    So you say I'd make much more money if I would write the code, but that would also make less fun, right?
    But I'm going to start with my "Experiment" tomorrow, I'll see what I can do :D
    I just need to get a proper list of programs or tutorials, if you guys could help me here.
    Oh and, I don't have a Mac - that means a no-go for iPhone developement.
     
  9. yas

    yas Well-Known Member

    Aug 7, 2009
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    Rōnin developer
    #9 yas, Sep 7, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
    Well, if I'm not mistaken, you have vocational/trade schools in addition to universities in Europe. The school you mention looks like a vocational/trade school.

    By the way, when I used to work at a game studio, we usually passed on candidates (especially "game designers") that graduated from game schools as most noobs lack experience in working in teams, unless they have natural talent. Yeah it sucks, but many studios can't afford to train noobs on a real project unless they have an internship program.

    Although I'm not a coder, people enjoy coding if they enjoy figuring out how to solve problems and come up with solutions on the computer. As for the "fun" part, what do you like to do? Do you like to do stuff outside of games?

    Let's put it this way, there are way more artists/designers than there are coders. And there are even fewer coders that are good. Just look through the forums here. People are always looking for coders to put their game ideas together.

    BTW, I've worked with coders that are awesome game designers. As an added plus, they can implement their game design ideas without being dependent on a game designer or a game design tool.

    At the end of the day, even though a large game project is made by a team of people, a small group of coders puts the game together in the end.

    As for a list, try doing your own research. What kind of games do you like? What kind of graphics do you like? Anime-style? Photoreal? Do you want to be an animator? Do you just want to create 3D models? Do you want to figure out how to make shaders? Do research based on what interests you and then narrow things down.

    If you really want to learn, it's up to you to do the work. There are plenty of stuff out there you can find. You aren't the first person to ask a question like this. ;)

    Remember, Google can be your friend if you know how to use it. :D
     
  10. rdklein

    rdklein Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2009
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    sw developer, tv producer, hw developer (microcodi
    Munich
    Maya is very powerful, its my favorit for game developing though many people use 3dmax especially to start 3ds max is easier to start than Maya (I recommend getting some books), if you can afford get into a training course for Maya which is really helpful.
    I find MAYA is more clearer structured than 3dsmax (I did plugin development for 3ds max and maya and also teached 3ds max at FHAnsbach (for masters like degree -- dont know the english words FH=Fachhochschule).
    In maya you can combine almost everything in a logical manner.
    --
    ALso consider using blender whichis free and dreally powerful, though a bigger learning step is needed to get used with the user interface -- its open source also and Ithink has a big future.
     
  11. micah

    micah Well-Known Member

    Aug 24, 2009
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    game developer
    San Francisco
    If you want to start making computer games, I highly suggest learning SDL. It's an open source cross-platform game library that I used to write games with when I was in high school. It's written in C, so you write games in C or C++. It has lots of stuff for 2d graphics (as well as sound and music, user input, networking, etc.), and it fits in perfectly with OpenGL for 3d games too.
     
  12. Chronical

    Chronical Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2009
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    St. Gallen, Switzerland
    No, the qantm is no trade school. It's a school in Zurich, and it's one hour away with the train from my home.
    On that point, I think I'm pretty good.
    I really love to work in a team, be together with people and have fun or create things together.
    I also hate to play games alone, so ..

    What do you mean with "outside" the game? like the announcements, news, interviews and stuff like that?
    I really like to work in a team, to share ideas and to create new things together, that's what I call "fun".




    I like Racer Games, Rhythm Games (big fan) RPGs and Fighting games like Soul Calibur. I also enjoy other games, like Shooter Games.
    I like the style of Oblivion, or S4 League.
    If you say "just", it sounds like it's bad..
    No, I also want to create a part myself, but really don't want to work alone, that's my point.
     
  13. Chronical

    Chronical Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2009
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    St. Gallen, Switzerland
    I got another question, is Dev-C++ a good program to start coding?
    And I also got Photoshop CS4 for the graphics, is this ok? :D
    Thanks for all your help guys (and girls?)
     
  14. rdklein

    rdklein Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2009
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    sw developer, tv producer, hw developer (microcodi
    Munich
    of course Dev-C++ is not the easiest way to get started with programming, but if you are motivated enough to learn it, its a good starting point for learning C++ -- if you want fast results, consider the visual c++ express (also free) . The advantage of Dev C++ its working on linux and pcs etc. being platform independant.
    For iphone development consider Xcode 3 which is also great for faster starting results, as you have the interface builder helpign you to get quick first steps. Adnn you can make MAC programs of course. It combines C++ and objectiv-c (which you need for the most programming anyway on MAC).
    --
    CS4 photoshop is perfect and professional. I would recommend to just start over and get one of the video tutorials to get deeper into it or a nice start up book.
     
  15. Argonomic

    Argonomic Member

    Sep 5, 2009
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    I have been in the industry for awhile now as a game designer.

    My advice is: Get a college degree. You won't get hired in the US if you don't have one, due to visa issues.

    School itself won't help much for games, but you may benefit from c or c++ classes and traditional art classes. Pick up a degree in something you enjoy doing, because it may come in handy if the game thing does not work out.

    To actually get good at making games, you have to play them a lot and work on them. The best way to work on games while you're not in the industry is to make mods for PC games. Mods enable you to work on cutting edge retail products and give you a more realistic idea of what goes into making games. You should also teach yourself c, which you can do on your own thanks to the internet and available samples.

    Once you're done with school you'll be ~21, you'll have some good mod work to show and perhaps some industry contacts, you'll be more hirable, and you'll benefit from the extra maturity.

    There are two hard parts about the game industry: Getting in (hard) and getting on a good team (very hard). It takes luck, talent, and extreme drive to be successful in this industry. If you don't have the talent or drive, you should reconsider. Fortunately you'll have that college degree to fall back on.

    Note: Do not take out a loan for college. It is better to work your way through than to acquire debt in your twenties.


    I wrote this post while watching youtube and took so long that when I hit submit, it had logged me out and the post was lost. So sadly the is the curt, less polished version.
     
  16. Chronical

    Chronical Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2009
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    St. Gallen, Switzerland
    Ok, thanks for the information.
    You say it's hard to get into a team, I also did read that on other sites, that's what makes me worry the most..
    But I don't know anything about your schools - because here in Switzerland it's a little bit different I think.
    Here you have to go to school until the 9th grade, then you can do whatever you want. (Most people are 16 when they're finished with school, like me - I'm finished next year.)
    You can go to other schools, or go working after learning a job.
    I think what you guys call "college" is a "kanti" here, where you go to school for 3 years and then you'd finish that one once you're 19. ( If you pass )
     
  17. rdklein

    rdklein Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2009
    384
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    sw developer, tv producer, hw developer (microcodi
    Munich
    Kanti in Germany called ABI-ABitur. Here there are two different forms the college where all Universities are open and the Fachoberschule (FOS) for a specific range, like economy, design etc. DOnt know how this is called in US or Switzerland, but there must be a similar one. Usually is easier but has about the same result.
    After this studding design, computersciene or a multimedia topic is possible (only some offering game design), either university or Fachhochschule (more practical oriented). A university degree is the result (several optionslike Masters, DIplom etc are possible then) very helpful to get a job later on. going to Quatm or similar can be an education on top of this.
     
  18. atommo

    atommo Well-Known Member

    Jul 19, 2009
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    Developer
    Something else to take into account if you don't plan on working for yourself as an indie developer - mobility.
    Developer jobs can disappear overnight, and you may need to move to a new city on short notice to get work. If you're an artist it's easier to freelance than if you're a coder.

    Here in North America most of the 1 year programs are from "diploma mills", basically teaching the lowest common denominator of skills using teachers who aren't truly qualified to teach. People are saying good things about your local school, so that's good - you'll learn something while you discover if it's really what you want to do. But unless you're a whiz and have that University degree you won't get into the US (if you are interested in working there) without 8 years of on the job experience or sponsorship.

    If you have an Xbox, sign up for the Indie program and start making games with a couple of friends. That will get you even more visibility than mods.

    Independent development is making a great comeback, so if you focus on that you can use your education without having to rely on someone else to provide you with work.

    Good luck! :)
     
  19. Argonomic

    Argonomic Member

    Sep 5, 2009
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    What I mean is, you need to get a degree in your own country so you are eligible to work in the United States. If you don't have a degree, it's much harder to get a work visa.

    The US is a huge hub of game development and you are seriously limiting your options if you cross it off the list.

    Also, Europe and Korea tend to be more PC-gaming, and US and Japan have more console developers.
     
  20. Chronical

    Chronical Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2009
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    St. Gallen, Switzerland
    So you mean I have to get a degree to work in America?
    That sucks.
     

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