Vilotto - New Unique Turn Based Strategy - In Design (No screenshots yet)

Discussion in 'Upcoming iOS Games' started by jlach, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. jlach

    jlach Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2011
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    Sr. Applications Engineer.
    Middletown, CT
    #1 jlach, Mar 12, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
    First off, I want to apologize if this is not the correct forum. I could not find a place where this type of post seemed most fitting. If this is the wrong place, mods feel free to move it :)

    So now on the meat. I'm in the process of developing a new unique Turn Based Strategy game for the iPod / iPhone (and eventually iPad). The game is currently in the early alpha development stage so I have little to show right now, sadly :( I wanted to start a thread here, however, to provide some information on the game and solicit feedback from what appears to be the most active community of iOS gamers :)

    For my first post I'd like to give a little background on the game and what it is. I'd also like to talk about one of the biggest features in the game - the huge class system which revolves around character aging and reincarnation.

    Well there you have it, a brief introduction to Vilotto and one of it's biggest features, the reincarnation system. As I said in my introduction, at this point I'm currently looking for feedback on the ideas I throw out there so please provide any thoughts, concerns, and/or questions you may have. I want to keep the people who will (hopefully!) be playing the game in the feedback loop as much as possible.

    I hope what I've thrown out there so far sparks at least a little interest in my project :) Mucho thanks in advance for any feedback you may provide and thanks for reading :D
     
  2. strivemind

    strivemind Well-Known Member

    I'm interested in seeing how this side-view TBS plays out.

    And 20 classes?!?
     
  3. jlach

    jlach Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2011
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    Sr. Applications Engineer.
    Middletown, CT
    First, thanks for the reply. I've heard the "I'm interested in seeing how this plays out" response from everyone I've talked to. It seems the concept serves to pique curiosity if nothing else :)

    I'll have some early alpha preview videos ready in the next couple weeks that show off some basic gameplay elements. I'm convinced it will be a fun view to play from :)

    Also, 20 classes are not really 20 classes. For instance, there are Male and Female versions of each class which are counted as different classes (different name, slightly different skill values). Also, there are no "jack of all trades" wizards/sorcerers. Instead there are Fire Mages, Wind Mages, Ice Mages, etc.

    Each and every class has a highly specialized role. As an example, there may be a Healer class which is really good at burst healing but has no "over time" spells. Her counterpart might be a class with no Burst healing spells but is instead very good at "over time" healing.

    I went this route because, honestly, it's the type of class system I prefer and this project started out of my lust for a game of this type and it not existing! I guess my point is that while it sounds like a lot of classes, it's not as daunting as it seems because there will be a role for each and every class to fill.
     
  4. Dazarath

    Dazarath Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2010
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    There have been games in the past that had things like age or perma-loss from death (usually old WRPGs, but Fire Emblem also comes to mind) and there's a good reason people don't implement it anymore. That kind of mechanic just makes the reset button a big part of the gameplay (or in the case of iOS games, the backup/restore function). I do think the rest of the description sounds great, and I'm also curious to see how it will come out.
     
  5. strivemind

    strivemind Well-Known Member

    Certainly sounds like you have to put some careful thought into building your team, since the classes are highly specialized and restricted. That could be part of the fun though; experimenting with different combinations.

    And sorry for the vague "interested" comment. Without more details, images, or a video, there isn't really much else to say.
     
  6. jlach

    jlach Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2011
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    Sr. Applications Engineer.
    Middletown, CT
    I thought about that during the design process and decided that I think I can do it a little better than just "You die and you're dead". The player will know if the character is aging to the point of being close to dying - their will be cues such as a decline in stats. There will also be a "Character X is getting old, has about X battles left" warning as the character is getting close to the end of his life. There will also be ways in the game to prevent death from happening, such as fountains of youth and what not.

    We're also toying with the idea of adding in the concept of "Ghosts". This would work like this - if a character ages to a certain age and then dies the player has the option of bringing them back as a "Ghost". Ghosts are normal, playable, characters except they lose the ability to be reincarnated. This means that if the ghost dies he can still come back but he can never advance beyond his current class. If implemented this would obviously come at a cost to the player. Something like maybe Ghosts earn 50% less XP or something. Haven't really designed this concept out that far yet.

    Not to discount what you mention, of course :) During testing it may be found that the idea, even with our twists, still sucks at which point we'll have to scrap it :)

    No need to apologize for the comment. I think it's a good response and one that is to be expected. It is something that may have never been tried (though I'm sure it's been done once or twice?) and is certainly not common.

    The player absolutely has to put thought into their party makeup. Fortunately for the player this won't be hard and will be kind of forced upon them. (Outlined why and how below).

    Vilotto is a TBS without much of a story. The plan is to have it a be a never ending game with as many levels as people want to grind (up to about level 9,999). The game consists of really two different maps - the "town" and the "battle" maps. The town map never changes. It's always the same and it serves as a place to buy materials, items, hire characters, craft, etc. Not unlike the town seen in the Disgaea series.

    The battle maps, on the other hand, work very differently. They are randomly generated and a very distinct and laid out "workflow" is used when building the maps. It goes like this -

    1) Player choses to enter a battle. Every X number of battles won the player can chose to enter a "Boss" battle. Every X "Boss" battles won the player can chose to enter a "God" battle.
    2) System randomly choses a "theme" for that battle. Maybe it's a cave, maybe it's a lava pit, etc. The theme of the battle determines the types of enemies that will spawn.
    3) System randomly generates the "weather" for the map. This will determine elemental weakness and strengths of the monsters spawned.
    4) The map is generated without monsters.
    5) Player has chance to inspect map and see the "theme" and weather of it. This will let the player know what type of characters they'll want to bring into battle.
    6) Player choses his/her characters and places them inside the "player area" on the map.
    7) System randomly generates X number of monsters. The level and class of the monsters are determined based on the average level of the party and the classes in that party.

    The game is, ultimately, about beating things up and earning big numbers. But that's also where the challenge is going to lie. It's not going to be easy keeping characters alive long enough to reach the max level of 9,999. It will be possible, however, through crafting items and using some special skills from some of the higher tiered classes.
     
  7. natejeevas

    natejeevas Well-Known Member

    Mar 7, 2011
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    Wow, you're right, this is actually make me interested. I never played games with reincarnation system, well except if you want to call The Sims one of it, hehe. Can't wait for the videos now. C:
     
  8. This game sounds right up my alley, and the "big numbers"/reincarnation concept reminds me of Disgaea, which is my favorite SRPG series to date. Was this inspired by Disgaea, and will there be more Disgaea influences in the game (i.e. comical characters, insane damage numbers)? I would love to see some concept art for this game.
     
  9. jlach

    jlach Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2011
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    Sr. Applications Engineer.
    Middletown, CT
    Vilotto was definitely heavily inspired by Disgaea. There will be insane damage, high level caps, crazy monsters, etc. I'm also working on a way of brining the item world into Vilotto without ripping off Disgaea too bad. The one thing from Disgaea that will be missing is the humorous story.

    The game play will be humorous, however. My plan is instead of adding cool "hit effect" animations (ie: when someone is hit with a sword) I'll be using old cheesy comic book words like "Bam!" and "Pow!". If someone casts fire, instead of seeing flames you'll see "Torch!" with the cheesy stared bubble around it. If someone blocks an attack with a shield you may see the world "Tink!" show up on top of the blocker to denote that he/she just blocked an attack.

    Concept art is in the works, though it's not your typical concept art. Basically just hand drawings. I'm not an artist so I'm using a friend of mine for the concept art. I can't take too much of his time, ya know? :)

    In the mean time I'm using the awesome prototyping graphics from the Lost Garden website. (Had to plug him since they've been useful in many of my projects!) http://www.lostgarden.com/2007/05/dancs-miraculously-flexible-game.html
     
  10. I see, thanks for clarifying. I'll be looking forward to seeing the concept art. :)
     
  11. strivemind

    strivemind Well-Known Member

    Your plans sound really excellent... but really, all you needed to say was one thing: Disgaea.

    Now I'm even more curious... like how deep do the RPG elements go? And is there a randomly generated item system. I think for a lot of people, constantly getting new and more powerful gear was one of the highlights of the Disgaea series.
     
  12. jlach

    jlach Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2011
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    Sr. Applications Engineer.
    Middletown, CT
    I suppose you're right, Disgaea would of probably helped describe everything better. We're trying to set Vilotto apart from Disgaea in some ways, however. We don't want to take Gameloft's approach and copy another game feature for feature.

    The RPG elements go as deep as they can go without much of a story. Characters level up and earn new skills. We're trying to work in a skill tree system for each character but are unsure if that's going to add too much complexity / micromanagement.

    As for bigger and better gear, there are no gear drops in Vilotto. Instead all that gets dropped are crafting materials. It's up to the player to craft everything for their characters. This system, I believe, will feed the gear hunger of players but in a different way.

    Phew, I talk (aka, type) a lot. Sorry! :)
     
  13. strivemind

    strivemind Well-Known Member

    Crafting system works for me.
    And really, if you're going to incorporate something like crafting, do you really need to worry that a skill tree system is too much micromanagement?

    Lastly, like any good game, striking up a balance between being fun, engaging, and rewarding/satisfying gameplay is going to be important. Both at level 1, and through to 999.

    lol anyways, that's enough out of me. Sounds like you guys have your work cut out for you.
     
  14. jlach

    jlach Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2011
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    Sr. Applications Engineer.
    Middletown, CT
    Yes and no. We really don't want to get into the Sims-level of micromanagement. It's one of those features we're going to have to do heavy play testing on before we make a final decision.

    We realized early on that this project was very ambitious for just a two person team. That's how we ended up on with a no-story, randomly generated map gameplay concept. It gives us the biggest bang for our buck. When we're done with the battle system and map generation we would have completed much of the game and be left with only crafting and tweaks/improvements. =D
     
  15. jasonc506

    jasonc506 Well-Known Member

    Nov 17, 2010
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    Disgaea is my favorite strategy rpg of all time, so I'll be looking forward to more details. An item world would be great (it was one of my favorite features from disgaea), also you'll need tons of sidequests too. I'm a bit dissapointed with the no story thing (even a bad one would be better than nothing)
     
  16. jlach

    jlach Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2011
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    Sr. Applications Engineer.
    Middletown, CT
    We're also disappointed that we needed to make the story go away. The problem is we're only two guys (a "producer" and me, the developer) and the project is really ambitious. The only thing we felt comfortable cutting out was the story. Everything else is pretty critical to the game play.

    Without a story there are really no need for side quests. The game doesn't ever "end". Monsters scale with you and maps are randomly generated. The only time the game will ever really "end" is when you get all your characters to Max level. Even then you can go and purchase (with in game "money", not real money) more characters and max those out as well if you enjoy the game enough :)
     
  17. Maxime Briand

    Maxime Briand Well-Known Member

    Jan 30, 2011
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    #17 Maxime Briand, Mar 14, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
    Really interesting... as a fan of the Disgaea series, Soul Nomad & The World Eaters and other Nippon Ichi games... I already can't wait for this one!

    I'm slightly worried about the lack of story however... while endless grinding is fun, as a gamer I love to reach certain checkpoints through the gameplay, to keep me going for more. Of course, with some of the more recent TBS games and the online functionalities of new platforms, leaderboards, achievements, etc. now add a whole new level of incentives... but it's still not a substitute for a captivating storyline.

    What I loved about some of the games previously mentioned is that the characters' quest for (a ridiculous amount of) power is both part of the gameplay and the storyline. Would you consider having at least a similar context/situation? I know you're still in the early stages of development, but maybe something like having a simple motivation for this mode of reincarnation, and possibly simple/humorous cutscenes for reaching certain simple goals (a specific level or age, crafting a specific item, etc.) could give a structure to the game? Another possibility, if you only have generic characters in your party... maybe it's the "Bosses/Gods" who have a specific personality, a few dialogue lines, or a random motive for fighting against you? These kinds of structures would also allow you to add content and story elements at small doses through eventual updates.

    And by no means does this have to be a clone of Disgaea: an Item World would be too much of a copy, but I'm sure there are other ways to go for a similar experience. For example, an idea that I don't think I've seen before in a TBS game is a "Double or Nothing" option where you could keep doing fights without restocking/saving to get better crafting materials... but lose all of your materials if you lose a battle. Depends on what you were planning as a consequence for losing a battle (i.e. do you keep accumulated experience, etc.)? Greed... is another excellent motive for playing! :D

    Anyways, just some random thoughts about this... I'll be sure to keep an eye out for this one, I'm sure you'll do terrific work! :)
     
  18. jlach

    jlach Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2011
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    Sr. Applications Engineer.
    Middletown, CT
    #18 jlach, Mar 14, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
    Thank you for the great input Maxime!! It's so greatly appreciated.

    It's becoming more and more clear that we're going to have to revisit the story idea. The problem is, as I keep saying, we're a two man shop and the project is already very ambitious for two people. It should also be noted that we'll be funding the art out of our own pockets and a complex story just adds the need for complex art (cutscenes, etc). Hopefully, however, we can achieve our "Plan A" which is to find some kind artist/s out there to join the project on a donation basis to increase their portfolio. As I think while I type, we could use the standard character sprites for the cutscenes. No reason why we can't, right?!

    I do like your idea of working gods/bosses into some kind of loosely tied story. Something like that would be easy to work in, provide some goals for the players to strive for, and also allow for some funny dialog. I will warn everyone, however - If we do end up tying some kind of story into the game it will be pretty outrageous and far fetched. That's just our style of humor :) Instead of a "Knight saves the world from evil" style story you might see something like "A kid with a pyro obsession accidentally sets the world ablaze and the gods are pissed" (this is if we can find a way to work a light story into the game)

    As far as character dialog during battles, it's something we're already planning on. As I said in a early post we'll be using the old "Wham!" "Bam!" "Pow!" text bubbles for hit animations. We'll also have the characters reply to those phrases like "Ouch!" or "Wham bam? No thanks, ma'am!"

    I'm also very intrigued by the "Double or Nothing" battle type. That's something that I think could fit right in with the game play we're going for. And, for a player like me, it would be awesome to take part in. I'm all about getting the best of everything I can get so I can get the biggest numbers possible!
     
  19. ultimo

    ultimo Well-Known Member

    May 5, 2009
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    TL;DR, some other time....
    reached home mins ago after a mundane, monotonous, meddling, monday's night shift!

    Please clear this bought thang!
     
  20. Maxime Briand

    Maxime Briand Well-Known Member

    Jan 30, 2011
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    Montreal, QC, Canada
    No problem, always a pleasure talking about this... and right now, with so many TBS games coming out on iOS soon, it's all I can think about :p

    Sounds great. It's doesn't even have to be an ongoing storyline, brief monologues from the bosses could work really well. Once again, to take example on Disgaea, both through the main story and sidequests, I love how you're constantly attacked by a bunch of weirdos that are just trying to invade your world and attack you... or the opposite, as you're trying to invade the human/angel worlds. As long as you can find a common element or motive throughout your characters, the quirky dialogues will come naturally.

    Once again, you have a lot of possibilities here, I'm sure you'll find a way to fine-tune a feature like that. It's nice to offer short-term goals (i.e. complete one battle to gain a few XP, ressources, etc.) and long-term ones (i.e. complete a chain of battles to challenge yourself and try to earn something much more powerful... kind of like how you could play the Item World).

    Oh, and another question that I had... what about the "Bosses/Gods", will their levels scale like regular enemies, or would they rather be at set levels? The latter would seem to make more sense to me, as it would give you a good reason to keep levelling your characters (and defeating certain bosses could even be a prerequisite to unlock level/age caps or certain classes), but I'm really not sure about this one... have you already made up your mind about it?
     

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