Discussion on Eliminate & Touch Pet Pricing Schemes

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Windburn, Nov 5, 2009.

  1. Windburn

    Windburn Well-Known Member

    Aug 31, 2009
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    #1 Windburn, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2009
    Hey guys,

    I'm not normally one to start a thread when a sea of them exist already. In this case though, I do have something to say on the matter and wished to spark some intelligent discussion without the spam of friend invites, game duels and boasting that has flooded 500+ pages in the other threads.

    I had posted this in the Eliminate release thread, and in moments it was absorbed by another 20 pages, and not one comment was made on it. So here it is again:

    In the same vein I thought it would be plausible to apply this "capacity" and "recharge rate" purchase concept to Touch Pets too, where you can spend $X to have additional food bowls recharge each day, rather than purchasing them individually whenever you realise you're enjoying yourself for the 10 minutes you've been playing, but your pet is now sleeping.

    If they're going to do microtransactions, then they really ought to do it in a tangible and not transient way. I'm highly reluctant to spend $10-15 on a game where I know the benefit will be consumed in a matter of days, or even shorter. I'm FAR more willing to spend the same amount or more if I know I'll enjoy the benefit of the expenditure indefinitely.

    What do you guys think? Does anyone share my opinions, so that we may point this out to ngmoco and effect a little change for the better? Ultimately, I believe it works to their financial advantage too.
     
  2. kingkong120

    kingkong120 Well-Known Member

    Jul 17, 2009
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    I saw your comment on the main thread but didn't comment myself. I do agree with you. We need something that will last. I recently purchased a $1 pack just to show some support, and it drained away within 15-20 minutes. I could see myself spending much more, and having it fly by. If we could have something as you mentioned, like lowering the recharge rate permanently, I would definitely be in for it, or something like increasing the amount of games per recharge permanently.
     
  3. sizzlakalonji

    sizzlakalonji Moderator
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    I agree with you completely. I think this is a short sighted strategy, because the hype for this, and therefore the online community, will die down sooner rather than later. As soon as more multiplayer becomes available (MC:S, Nova, others we don't even know about yet) that is free with purchase, this system will blow up in their faces. The game is good, it's fun while it lasts, but there is absolutely nothing that compels me to buy energy packs. I will never buy them, not because I'm cheap, but simply because I don't see the value as a consumer. Right now it's all hype. Some people are buying because it's new and exciting, but in a couple of months I think all they'll have is a high level character with increasingly fewer people to play with and a massive iTunes bill. I'm also with you about the thread. I won't even visit it...it's worse than Pocket God or Minigore. The game is fine, and I know this is somewhat of an experiment for Ngmoco, so I don't begrudge them that or have any anger over their system, I just feel that in the long run it's destined to fail.
     
  4. TIMELESS

    TIMELESS Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2009
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    I had just rather pay 20 or 30 dollars for the game and be done with it. They could charge for the updates too. extra puppies. I think there is a better way too make money. I am willing to pay but I do not want to pay 30 dollars a month for one game.
     
  5. Windburn

    Windburn Well-Known Member

    Aug 31, 2009
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    @sizzla & TIMELESS:

    I think alot of people share these sentiments; there have been a ton of people making similar comments in the main Eliminate thread, which is pretty much what got me to posting this thread here instead. If we can consolidate all these opinions on the pricing scheme, hopefully ngmoco will take notice.
     
  6. Brazilian Rider

    Brazilian Rider Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2009
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    #6 Brazilian Rider, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2009
    I recently posted that in the other thread.

    I made these predictions before the game came out. What did people do? They called me a troll (arn) because I "
    This was in reply to me saying not a lot of people would buy energy packs and that Eliminate would receive a low review score due to the fact it's free. Both of these have now happened.

    Just for the satisfaction of gloating (I know it's wrong, but it feels so good!) I'll post what arn said here and then my rebuttal!

    Rebuttal:

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=29567

    As you can see, this conversation took place in a thread where people who were not buying energy packs outweighed those that were (on a regular basis) 133 to 4.

    And where are we now?

    Eliminate is the #1 free game as expected, however it is currently standing at 3.5 stars and dropping. Why? The way the pricing scheme is set up.

    Also, I've started to note lag, and I know I'm not the only one noticing this.

    EDIT: And on top of that I also mentioned that the recharge rate would be ridiculously higher than the amount of time you actually spent playing the game! Guess who's 3 for 3 now?
     
  7. Windburn

    Windburn Well-Known Member

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    @Brazilian Rider:

    It's probably best not to turn this into a forum wrestling match-- just get everyone's opinions down and see where we're at, that's what forums are for, not for picking fights.

    Personally, I don't have a problem with asking people to pay for the game; in fact-- I expressly stated in my initial post that I wanted to pay for the game. What I have a problem with is just how transient and wafer thin the current value from what's being offered presents.

    I think the way they are going about it is great (through a free app), which may actually spark Apple to create a new category for micro-transaction based games, but if they're going to ask people expecting a free game to make these payments, at least make them lasting so that those posting reviews won't feel so disheartened.
     
  8. Brazilian Rider

    Brazilian Rider Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2009
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    Eh, I didn't mean to pick a fight. Euphoria is rushing through me now.

    Anyways, I do agree with you on all those issues, like I stated in my post/quote.

    Why not pay for the game once and get it done with? That would rake in so much more money and guarantee NGmoco a profit. Everyone that plays will pay, say, $9.99 at first and NGmoco won't have to worry about any "what-ifs" this will eliminate (pun intended) any possible bad side effects if the current system fails (which I believe it will).

    The problem is is (gah, I hate doing that) NGmoco has dug themselves into a hole if this doesn't work out. What do they do? Pull the game from the AppStore and release a new one? Hello negative reviews/ boycotts. Make the free version paid? Same problem.

    Basically NGmoco decided to throw a Hail Mary on 4th and 30 from their own 2 yard line, and there's a good chance it'll be disastrous. What would be even worse for NGmoco is if Nova intercepts it.
     
  9. Windburn

    Windburn Well-Known Member

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    Only because you pointed this out yourself am I letting you know that you should have used "is that" instead :p

    I should emphasise something else on topic that I failed to mention earlier:

    In so far as ngmoco are giving people the chance to "buy" credits to spend on guns and armour and items, I think this is a great idea. For those who want to "toe it" with the big guys but don't have the time to put in, this is the quick-fix cash cow for the developers.

    My issue is narrowly focused on the payment system for energy packs and play time. Immediate gun and armour upgrades are permanent micro-purchases that are an acceptable means of garnouring revenue beyond the "pay per app" system, and a reasonable explanation of why the micro-transactions system is still of benefit in my books.
     
  10. Brazilian Rider

    Brazilian Rider Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2009
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    God Damn, I knew there was a way out of that 'is is'!

    I agree with you. Why not just make it a paid app then micro-transactions in case you wanted to get the guns immediately instead of ranking up for them?

    That way they get the best of both worlds, that is, if their matching system works as they say it will (not happening right now).
     
  11. Eli

    Eli ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
    Staff Member Patreon Silver Patreon Gold

    There's a good chance? Remember, this is the success other companies using this business model have seen:

    I wouldn't put too much stock in to iTunes reviews. It's a very bottom heavy system that encourages negative reviews. The default rating is one star, and unless you're constantly lurking iTunes the only time it asks you to review anything is when you delete it. If you're enjoying Eliminate, you have almost no reason to go on iTunes and rate it, as opposed to if you delete it in a fit of rage you're almost assuredly going to rate it one star.
     
  12. DaveMc99

    DaveMc99 Well-Known Member

    Mar 1, 2009
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  13. Eli

    Eli ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    Also they have an insane amount of options for promotions and specials within the game to make more sales. Where your average iPhone game can only drop its price by a dollar or two (assuming they didn't start at 99¢ of course) when it starts to slump, ngmoco can do things like a weekend where you earn double credits, heavily adjust energy prices, offer energy bonuses for buying X energy cells, etc.

    If they ever actually implement the survey system that was in the preview to get energy without paying, that opens up yet another revenue stream for them to exploit by soaking up the kickbacks from companies that have various offers for players to complete like the Zynga games.
     
  14. Windburn

    Windburn Well-Known Member

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    #14 Windburn, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2009
    It's interesting that it has already peaked at 20, and now is down to 29.
    I think there's some validity in the argument that when people realise how far their dollar is really going, the purchases will start to peeter off.

    People aren't yet accustumed to micro-transactions on iTunes-- I'm skeptical that going for a hardcore "pay for time" approach was really the best means of introducing people to it.

    That's a really good point too. I don't know if it'll change the fact that their base revenue stream would slump though, but it does give it a chance for a little more exposure.
     
  15. Eli

    Eli ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
    Staff Member Patreon Silver Patreon Gold

    The ranking changes heavily throughout the day depending on what time of day it is. Yesterday they got as low as the mid 60's in the morning then peaked around the 20's in the afternoon.

    As far as people not being accustomed to paying for games like this on iTunes-

    http://appshopper.com/search/?cat=&search=playmesh+points
    http://appshopper.com/search/?cat=&search=prestige+points
    http://appshopper.com/search/?cat=&search=respect+points

    etc.

    A number of these have appeared on the top grossing list since its inception.
     
  16. Shinto

    Shinto Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2009
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    I agree with Hodapp and I think Ngmoco are genius with games and marketing.
    Another good reason to add is to combat piracy, I guess now is not possible to steal that energy cells and the game is free so is not a problem if it get cracked or not, and to play the game their servers watch players to play fair and can ban piracy people if some day it happens.

    I predict the game will be a Huge succes and it will happen like in a month or 2 (that conclussion)
    Another prediction is that Ngmoco will lower the transactions price when the game is not that new.
    I will never understand that complains about a free game. And again I will say that in the actual Appstore the only good way to launch an online game is to be free or almost.
     
  17. SSquared

    SSquared Well-Known Member

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    #17 SSquared, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2009
    Just wanted to chime in my support for Windburn. Windburn, that is essentially the same idea I proposed in the TouchPets thread. I suggested having different apps at varying price points. Your food bowl recharges at different rates depending on which app you buy. I would be willing to pay for that. I am also willing to pay for new clothing and other cool things. But I do not plan on continually buying apps to recharge. Can you even keep buying an app or does the app only last one time? How do you repay for an app you have already downloaded?

    Just so you know where I'm coming from, I don't actually own TouchPets yet. I am basing my opinions on what I can gather from the forums.
     
  18. TIMELESS

    TIMELESS Well-Known Member

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  19. Windburn

    Windburn Well-Known Member

    Aug 31, 2009
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    Just wanted to point out, that none of these reasons are incompatible with the suggestions I have made in my OP. I agree 100% that the microtransaction system needs to stay, as it's what's keeping those servers populated, and what will continue to do so. What I'm asking for, is a little more value for our dollar.
     
  20. Ddyracer123

    Ddyracer123 Well-Known Member

    Aug 4, 2009
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    Exactly how I feel. If NGmoco could double the time we get for each full charge, and bing down the price, they would have more supporters. Their nickel and diming us here but they won't be able to once competiton comes. If I were them I would do this:

    1. Keep the game free and offer a montly subscribtion for unlimted power cells for about 8-10 bucks

    2. Price at 4.99 offer a monthly subscribtion for 4.99 for unlimited power cells.

    3. Or, price the game at 10 dollars and offer no in app purchases.
     

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