How the App Store became the Greed Store

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by madebymadison, Mar 13, 2013.

  1. madebymadison

    madebymadison Well-Known Member

    Mar 8, 2011
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    Wow. I remember my iPad 1. The wonderful games. You bought them. You played them. Depending on production value there were different price points. I loved that. It's why I got the iPad2 and sold my Wii.

    Then came iApp. It was GOOD at first: games like the Japanese Taiko No Tatsujin got it right: release new playable song packs every now and then to expand the game. Buy CONTENT. That was good.

    Then iApp turned into a "buy upgrades to perform better" "buy virtual money with real money" and iApps with price tags of up to 80 or 100 Euros started appearing just for coins, rings, currency, whatever the name was.

    And then it invaded the formerly iApp free games, like Cut The Rope, that was FINE and superb without it. It became omnipresent, invasive and a cash cow for developers.

    This is not good. Most iApp doesn't add anything. There is hardly a game coming out anymore without it (and developers are wondering why people hack their systems to circumvent it, it happens more and more (although I refuse to jailbreak my device to do it: it's illegal)).

    The point is.
    I PLEDGE to not buy ANY game anymore with iApp in it. I refuse to be that cash cow. I want a normal App Store with normal games you pay for without useless iApp unless it's functional like the Taiko No Tatsujin expansion packs. That works for me, the rest is greed. And that, my dear friends, is not pretty.

    I guess, when I look at the releases these days, that no more games will even make it onto my iPad anymore. iApp has become a monster, and I no longer think it's acceptable. I KNOW MANY users feel the same.

    My fear is, if things don't change, a year, maybe two, from now, the App Store will be a freemium iApp fest with no buyers and true gamers that hoped the iPad would replace their consoles, like I hoped, will have left to buy the PS4 or whatever next gen console is coming.

    I wish somebody would wake up and smell the coffee. This is way out of control.
     
  2. Sanuku

    Sanuku Well-Known Member

    Keep supporting Developers like Simogo, Vlambeer,... and you should do fine in the upcoming future.
     
  3. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
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    Wow a post moaning about iap. Original.

    You have this wrong. If things hadn't started changing the app store would've become drier and drier as developers who made 20 bucks from their first game won't be returning.

    iap is taking over for at least three reasons, and they will all probably piss you right off.

    1) You cannot get large, high production value developments whilst expecting to pay one dollar or perhaps a tiny handful at most - the numbers just don't add up anymore. Looking at two years ago isn't relevant as its the next two that developers have to plan for. With rising competition, harder and harder discovery and insanely stupidly ridiculous low prices meaning you need 250,000+ customers to maybe break even. That's a silly proposition to anyone that can do math.

    2) You are dead wrong about spending habits. You not liking iap doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't. The top-grossing chart is full of these games and you often hear stories about game X making $100K per day.

    3) LMAO at the "PS4 replacement" comment. When your average iOS customer starts to consider paying $60 for a game normal, then it may come to pass. Until then, developers wishing to make bigger games than match-3 timewasters need to earn some proper money for the often tens of expensive man years invested. That means freemium with virtual currency, as opposed to giving your work away for the price of a latte.

    You may now begin shooting the messenger....
     
  4. madebymadison

    madebymadison Well-Known Member

    Mar 8, 2011
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    Ruby:

    I paid 24 bucks for final fantasy ios. No problem.
    And I think developers like Rovio who launched Angry Birds with no iap in the beginning and made millions would disagree. It IS possible.
    Simogo, mentioned earlier, are also a succesful developer, yet without iap.
    So (Im not pissed off, I am happy you are expressing your views) we simply disagree is all. :)
     
  5. madebymadison

    madebymadison Well-Known Member

    Mar 8, 2011
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    Exactly!!
     
  6. tofusoup

    tofusoup Well-Known Member

    Aug 23, 2010
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    If only every customer on the app store was like you. How about the rest of them.

    The focus should be on games that abuse the iap, and not categorize it all into a whole. It's not easy to balance. As a developer you do want to maximize your games potential.

    Sure there are plenty of successful developers with or without iap, but how many developers are there total. Think about that.
     
  7. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    #7 mr.Ugly, Mar 14, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2013
    since crappy safari ate my wall of text after switching a tab to get thoose links.. i post just them..

    developers are in genenral not greedy. you cant look at the top charts and generalize a few ones successes to every developer. Most games do not even break even, if they do people call this a success. How sad is that devs who pour their souls are called greedy if they actually want to earn a living. A game has to be free since 2,99 is premium and 5 dollars a sacriledge.

    devs try to earn ANY money.. and going free2play is just another way of monetazing. Its the current trend but just having iap in you games does not mean the devs are now making any money..

    http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/31/3577838/punch-quest-iphone-game-struggle

    http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/10/outwitters-sales-disaster/

    http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/going-broke-with-success-how-an-app-with-200000-downloads-led-to-devel

    you said youpaid 24 for final fantasy.. but would you pay that money for some indie game from an unknown developer? i highly doubt that.

    free2play is here to stay for some time.. and next stop will be consoles, sooner than you think.
     
  8. madebymadison

    madebymadison Well-Known Member

    Mar 8, 2011
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    I agree. LILY was a good example. It had a price tag when it came out that was higher than most games. And the iAp was costumes and a key. That I bought (ALL of it) to support the developer. But that also gives me stuff to play around with in the game. They didn't abuse it. But tbh, I think the majority currently is. That is what is getting to me. There are most certainly developers out there who balance it pertfectly or tune it to perfection after a release. That, I am fine with. But there is a lot of shady stuff going on. Too much if you ask me.
     
  9. madebymadison

    madebymadison Well-Known Member

    Mar 8, 2011
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    Actually I would. I'm an artist myself. Not breaking even. So I feel for developers. My God: is 2.99 PREMIUM now? I remember buying Asphalt etc. when it came out at 8.99 (and that is Euros, not dollars) and not caring about the price because it was worth it.

    If it's worth it. Big or small developer. I am willing to pay higher prices. Honest.
     
  10. madebymadison

    madebymadison Well-Known Member

    Mar 8, 2011
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    (Completelt off topic; I LOVE your Avatar Mr. Ugly!!) :)
     
  11. It's tough. Speaking for myself: I just released a game with no currency iap, exp/gold doublers and that kind of hidden fees hoping to get players who hate those to buy in.

    It worked to an extent I think but there's no way I could do this as a living. I mean look at the grossing charts and how far and between the premium titles are there? And which have no consumables or game advantages iAP?

    It's not a viable option. It's a moral stance to go that road and not a financially viable one. As an hobbyist I can afford it I guess but a real dev company couldn't. I totally understand them.
     
  12. I'm not all that concerned with freemiums or inapps, but I have to list a couple of things that are troubling.

    1. Premium converts to freemium with no early adopter bonuses.

    2. Adding ads to previously premium apps.

    3. Adding inapps and developers accidentally corrupting data saves, so players lose all coins and consumable inapps.

    4. Adding stuff like wait timers or impossible paywalls to games just for profit.

    5. The going trend of developers launching at $6.99, a day later $2.99, 3 days later 99 cents, and after a week complete freemium.

    6. Some developers completely pulling apps by changing their publishers and rereleasing the games.

    7. Making inapps fairly unreasonable like buying one car for $100 real US Dollars or one boat for $50. Many of these inapp purchases are done by little children not hardcore gamers. Parents are often too embarassed to challenge them or they don't know the process to get refunds. I think it is sad to make money off of these child inapp purchases.

    Seemed like a year ago, the structure was kinda more premium with games at .99, 2.99, or 6.99. Nowadays, there seems to be a big push to inapps and freemiums. Maybe the reality of the market is that one day, almost every game will be a freemium, who knows.

    Just getting scary to update, cause games are made into freemium converts, ads added, inapps added and accidental resetting of coins, so kinda leary about even upgrading lately.

    We'll see where the market is heading, hopefully things get better.
     
  13. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
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    #13 Rubicon, Mar 14, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2013
    Connector, I agree with every one of that list above.

    This isn't just greed or abuse though, some of it is fraud and is illegal. I made a post elsewhere on this subject and as a developer myself I care very deeeply about that kind of outrageous shit.

    It's about time Apple started enforcing against this, or maybe someone with more time/money than I starts sueing over it.

    Rest assured that whilst we're switching to (fair) freemium models in future games, none of our existing stuff will ever get bait and switched regardless of how tempting it might be.
     
  14. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    I dont like IAP's BUT i can see why devs do this

    Look how many cheapskates ask about 'i would buy this but is there any chance of a sale in the future ?' etc.

    Too many people wait for a game to be free or a price drop. A price drop of a game which is ONLY $1.99 !!! Its nothing ! But still they wait for 99c or for it to be free

    I hear it all the time, a game goes free and has 50,000 downloads, goes back up to paid and gets 10 downloads a week.

    Its our fault devs do IAP's. If we buy games when they are released and devs make a lot of money we hopefully wont get so many freemium games and we'll get more and more games created on iOS.

    If we all waited for games to be free then lots and lots of devs would abandon iOS and it would be bad for all of us.

    Its 'our' fault theres so many freemium titles. Its crazy, a games 99c and people wait for it to be free, a games 'freemium' and people are happy but then stupidly spend 2 or 3 dollars on IAP's ?! Crazy
     
  15. Royce

    Royce Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    It's not really anyone's fault, or maybe it's everyone's. It's definitely true that there are a ton of cheapskates, but if devs hadn't played into it by devaluing their own products by selling super cheap and going on constant 99 cent or free sales, then the cycle never would have begun. You could say that was spurred by the dramatic growth of the market and the huge volume of games that started appearing, so maybe it's the market's fault ;)
     
  16. Whose fault is it? ;)
     

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  17. There are news that children spend thousands of $ in minutes. Quite a few. I think Apple should be responsible for this.

    But on the other hand, as a developer, I have to add IAPs. Previously I didn't add any compulsory IAPs in my game. Even the buy coins IAP's there only to satisfy possible impatient players. (Indeed the coins are very easy to get in game, and only one sale of $2 happened in one year.) However, due to current poor environment, only free-sale campaigns can booste the sales. And once the app's back to paid, litterally no sales.

    People always tend to choose free but full-of-iaps ones more than paid but iap-free ones. That's a fact, no matter they admit or even notice that.
     
  18. AlienSpace

    AlienSpace Well-Known Member

    May 28, 2010
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    Developers are only providing what the customers are asking for... more cheap/free games. That's just a fact. If there was a substantial market for better games at higher prices, I guarantee you plenty of developers would be making such games.

    So who's to blame? Actually, it's Apple. Apple set up the App Store, they set up the rules, and they set up the system to encourage cheap/free games with lots of downloads to rise to the top. They encouraged the race to the bottom, and that's what they got. They encouraged lots of crappy low-quality games by lowering the entry requirements and quality bar, and that's what they got. And while some gamers complain about it and claim they'd happily pay more for better games, the actual situation is that most people only care about getting free games or paying as little as possible.
     
  19. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Its true devs dont help themselves by making an app free or cheaper a few days later after release.

    I actually dont mind if i've paid 2.99 for an app and 2 days later its 1.99. I like to think the added dollar will help that devs revenue and 'perhaps' persuade him to release more games.

    I find it crazy devs dont use forums more, even today i still see apps which dont auto-rotate or have some crazy control scheme that the dev seems to like and then is stunned when a lot of the public dont. Wish more devs would 'use us' to test their games rather then perhaps friends and family who say 'great game' whatever the issues.

    Also i hope Apple would set a minimum app structure, eg every app is a minimum of $2 and wont go down in price. Just hear too many stories of small indie devs going out of business as they cant make that much as everyone waits for price drops etc.

    Think too many devs panic and think 'we're not making enough this initial week, lets drop the price'.

    So its all of our fault really, created a bit of a monster. We're in the year 2013 and quality games are 99c and you STILL get people saying 'will someone let me know if this game is good' rather than taking a chance on a tiny 1 dollar game !
     
  20. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Thought this article was interesting...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/mar/14/galaxy-s4-launch-samsung-apple?CMP=twt_fd

    Right at the bottom of it...

    "Where Apple retains a lead over Samsung is in its apps store. Google's Android software platform, which Samsung uses for the Galaxy devices, has attracted a large number of developers and its store is predicted to be the first to reach 1m apps. But content creators still reserve their best products, such as new games, for iOS software because Apple's customers spend more than Android's."

    We need to keep buying apps, if we all become cheapskates then the premier/best products will come out on Android first and then perhaps later iOS (if the devs think they will make much)
     

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