Windows 8 Tablets PCs!!!

[GoofyJmaster.]

This post is about the Slate 7 which is already available and made with Windows 8 in mind. There will actually be a second Slate released when Win8 officially comes out.

Here's an in depth review (16 pages of info) and comparison of the Samsung Slate 7. Big thanks to Engadget for the link to the review. It runs circles around the iPad and pretty much everything else. Windows 8 will only improve on all of this. Theres also a second review link made by a so called Apple fan. And the third link is Msoft's plan to improve on performance with Windows 8. And the fourth link is to Microsoft's in depth blog post about Win 8 power efficiency

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...late,3079.html

http://tekonomist.wordpress.com/2012...msung-7-slate/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...-battery-life/

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...lications.aspx
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Quote from Engadget commenter, FlutterDoo. I guess you guys can take it with a grain of salt if you don't want to listen to commenters.

Update: I got it and I wasn't disappointed. Dual booting Windows 8 and Windows 7 right now and Assassin's Creed plays O.K. but worse than on 320m (nvidia) graphics which was on my old MacBook Pro 13". Also make sure you install a version of Assassin's Creed through Steam because I can't manually install directX and get the same performance Steam's post-download-setup gave me for Revelations. Textures all on high is fine, though resolution needs a bump down to 1280 or 1024 width, and other settings should be off.
On the whole this tablet is awesome though! Pressure sensitive (after going to get the driver update from Samsung's downloads site) and 8-finger multitouch! Windows 7 (from this review) is my backup OS, Windows 8 runs AMAZING on this tablet. It never crashes and seems like it was made for the damn thing, even the home button goes to the Windows 8 home screen by default, and the multitouch + digitizer (pressure pen) both work right after the blazing fast 5 minute install from USB. Heck, everything works right after the installation, it's amazing!!!
*squeeeee*

Could this be your laptop replacement?

Could this be your iPad replacement?

Will the iPad 3 match or best this? Obviously not!

How do you feel/like Windows 8 and the new tablets based off of what I posted or your own research?

[DistantJ]

I gotta wonder about stuff though, man...

Dual booting Windows 8 and Windows 7 right now and Assassin's Creed plays O.K.

I mean there's the first point right there, the disadvantage all PCs and Android devices have compared to a games console or an iDevice - the different specs mean you never know quite how something's going to run. Unless you have a very old iDevice, you can expect everything to run exactly as intended by the developer, whilst with a PC or Android device (i.e. a device which was built independently from the OS software developer), you just never know what you're going to get.

Also make sure you install a version of Assassin's Creed through Steam because I can't manually install directX and get the same performance Steam's post-download-setup gave me for Revelations. Textures all on high is fine, though resolution needs a bump down to 1280 or 1024 width, and other settings should be off.

And we go back into the realms of PC gaming again. I used to be a PC gamer, then all this graphics cards stuff started showing up and it became a nightmare of fiddling with settings, installing this that the other, until it'd finally work acceptably on your hardware, despite meeting the recommended specs. I mean bumping textures up and down, changing resolution, all that stuff, is something I've been hoping games would move away from since graphics are starting to hit that glass ceiling.

Pressure sensitive

This is very cool, will be good in combination with the digitizer for graphics programs etc.

(after going to get the driver update from Samsung's downloads site)

...And not so cool. Again we get back to the PC crapness of having to download this and configure that... This should auto-update, or be like this out of the box.

even the home button goes to the Windows 8 home screen by default

Why wouldn't it?

and the multitouch + digitizer (pressure pen) both work

Again, exciting...

right after the blazing fast 5 minute install from USB

...and not so exciting. Who wants to sit installing everything they want to use all the time? In my view this goes against what tablet computers are about - simplicity and efficiency. "Blazing fast 5 minute"? Is this what Windows-only users are accustomed to?


I mean, to me, this sounds like an extra-portable laptop, ya know, just without the added bulk of the keyboard and hinge, and if it's going to be this demanding on customisation and installation, well you might as well have a keyboard interface... Does this make sense?

I would really like to be looking forward to Win 8, because I love Win 7 (I gave up on Windows completely when it was on Vista, I hated that thing and moved entirely to Mac, but Win 7 saved it, used all of Vista's good ideas and a few of OSX's too, great stuff), but again every time I look I just see compromise. Tablets with fans and installations and fiddling with settings to get stuff to work, PCs with full-screen apps and gimped multitasking, the disadvantages of each platform have crossed over to the other.

Could this be your laptop replacement?

Potentially, if it comes with a keyboard dock and supports all chipsets (not just the ARM stuff). It'd be ultra-portable, which would be nice.

Could this be your iPad replacement?

I wouldn't think so... For all the functionality it loses efficiency and simplicity. This thing seems more like a computer which you can pull the keyboard off of, than a tablet which you can stick one onto. Almost the inverse of the ASUS Transformer series.

Will the iPad 3 match or best this? Obviously not!

Depends what you're looking for. I seriously don't want to be reading the Metro & listening to podcasts on the train on something with a fan whirring away at me, after having to have sat there and waited for the Metro program to install, for its battery to drain after 3 and a half hours. It seems bloated to me.

How do you feel/like Windows 8 and the new tablets based off of what I posted or your own research?

Based on what you've posted, I like the aesthetics of the OS for tablets very much, but I feel that the computer+tablet thing is really holding it back, I just can't see the appeal in a tablet so complicated and resource-heavy, it's practically a laptop sans keyboard.

As for the improvements, we can't go saying a device is better/worse based on promises for improvement. Nobody added points to their AWESOME Land reviews because I promised a scoring system later (out in a few days, by the way), and rightly so.

The real appeal I can see in a Win 8 tablet with keyboard dock is like a much better angle to the ASUS Transformer idea (Say what you will about the Transformer but Android isn't versatile enough to be considered a full laptop OS unless you're the most casual of computer users) - if you need a laptop and a tablet you can kill two birds with one stone and save you money. In my opinion it's not as good as either but you do essentially get both in one device, which is nice.

For me, currently, I feel like I'd be compromising with both; an OS too bloated for an efficient tablet and too basic for a PC.

What I am looking forward to, is seeing how Apple and Google respond to it with their next OS updates.

[GoofyJmaster.]

@DistanJ

If you see this, I'll be replying a bit later to answer some of questions/concerns. Been busy!

[slewis7]

@GoofyJmaster: thanks for the great links. It is good to know that a powerful Windows based PC can be put into a tablet form factor with existing technology. It will only get better and should be very interesting when Windows 8 if finally released.

As for now, I will probably get an iPad 3, but will take a close look at the Windows 8 tablets for my subsequent upgrade. I have little need beyond consumption and the cheap and plentiful apps that Apple has is great for me. Web browsing on the iPad is good enough and should continue to improve. The iPad desktop and folder paradigm is not that great but encourages me to manage my apps and delete ones I don't use and hopefully this will get improved. My one main wish list is that Apple will put in a USB port and allow me to export things like podcasts and files; if I want to listen to a podcast in my car I have to boot up my old PC. Other then that I am pretty happy with the iPad. I am looking forward to next Wednesday's reveal and am hopeful an updated IOS version will improves things.

[GoofyJmaster.]

Originally Posted by slewis7

@GoofyJmaster: thanks for the great links. It is good to know that a powerful Windows based PC can be put into a tablet form factor with existing technology. It will only get better and should be very interesting when Windows 8 if finally released.

As for now, I will probably get an iPad 3, but will take a close look at the Windows 8 tablets for my subsequent upgrade. I have little need beyond consumption and the cheap and plentiful apps that Apple has is great for me. Web browsing on the iPad is good enough and should continue to improve. The iPad desktop and folder paradigm is not that great but encourages me to manage my apps and delete ones I don't use and hopefully this will get improved. My one main wish list is that Apple will put in a USB port and allow me to export things like podcasts and files; if I want to listen to a podcast in my car I have to boot up my old PC. Other then that I am pretty happy with the iPad. I am looking forward to next Wednesday's reveal and am hopeful an updated IOS version will improves things.

Hey man, thanks for the post and no problem. I was beginning to feel like this was going to be a discussion between only me and DistantJ.

Yeah, I use my computer for more than what the iPad can handle. Also, I think it's just nice to have the extra goodies on a OS that will be supported like laptops and desktops. Most upper class college students still have their same laptop from freshman year or even high school. Hell, Window XP will still be supported until 2014.

The iDevices will never--ok, well, not any time soon IMO--have the same love IMHO. I already feel like I need to upggrade my iPod and i have the newest one. Metro will only make the tablet/mobile/consumption experience better.the iPad will be updated just enough to get you to buy into it.

Pricing

The best iPad is $830.

The 64GB Slate 7 is $1,000 and the 128GB is $1,300.

There's also sales going on for it. If you buy it from a Microsft store, you can get it for--I think--$900. You also get a $200 gift card.

If you buy it online you can get the $200 gift card, but there isn't a discounted price.

[slewis7]

Pricing is pretty competitive now and should get really competitive when Windows 8 arrives. Tablets will become cheap as a lot of vendors enter the field. At that point, there will be real pressure on Apple to innovate further and there will be really good tablets that run Windows that are more powerful and cheaper then iPads. It should be interesting to see how Apple responds. I don't expect a lot from the coming iPad 3, but the iPad 4 one will have to exist in a much different market.

[DistantJ]

Are Metro games XNA? I will probably be looking into getting FZ games onto Win 8 devices somewhere down the line.

Did you do any research on Windows 8

Yup. Forgive me if I'm not jumping for joy, for me it's just got me very concerned, otherwise I'd be into it. If they can keep the price low and do away with stupid things like fans in the tabs and no battery life then I'm all for it, likely to be instead of my next laptop upgrade, not necessarily to replace Android tablet.

Android is like driving down a zig-zag road with mile high bumps.

Seriously? I can't see it... Win 8 seems to be the same system practically as Android 3/4.

He said that you could do hard work for up to 5-6 hours with the brightness turned down to 25%

But why do that when I can do hard work on my Samsung tab for 9+ hours with the brightness at 100%?

So what we're looking at is sort of Windows 7 with an overlay which makes it better for touch screens? Of course I like that, but I've yet to see anything which proves I can get it to behave like a normal PC operating system with windows and a taskbar without having Win 7 dual-booting or using the limited 'Desktop' app. If you can show me a video of Win 8 running as a Window-based OS I'd be very thankful.

I don't know if you've seen Mac OSX Lion, but what that does is replaces the Applications folder (the Mac equivalent of the Start Menu) with LaunchPad, which mimmicks iOS - once you click it, your computer screen becomes a gesture-controlled stack of icons just like iOS, from which you can launch your apps. They offer it there but you can also remove it and put the Applications folder back. I know the Start button brings up that WP7 style thing again but when you launch stuff from it it seems to all be very app-like, one task at a time, all full screen etc., I'd much prefer to see the apps still launching in configurable and resizable Windows when on a PC and I've not seen any video of it running that way unless it's old Win 7 apps. I know it can run legacy apps but what if I want to multitask between a Win 8 program and a Win 7 one? Am I just supposed to be task-switching the whole time like on a tablet OS? On my PC?

I'd much prefer they kept using Windows, I mean I use Mac OSX because of it's better Window-support, the way applications like Photoshop can split into separate windows and keep all the other stuff behind it, toolbars only appearing when a Photoshop window is clicked, dragging content between a PS and Illustrator file without having to switch etc. and going into PS on my Win7 PC feels like a big step backwards just from not having that option, I can't imagine how much of a step backwards this Metro thing would be in that respect.

The 64GB Slate 7 is $1,000 and the 128GB is $1,300

Absolutely no way am I parting with a grand for a tablet... Is there a 16GB one? I can see why it's useful, I mean I really can, but any tablet user will tell you that they never really want their tablet to do more than it can, because anything a tablet can't do you usually want a mouse+keyboard interface to achieve. Obviously the advantage is that you can, ya know, pull out the mouse+keyboard and plug it in there, but eh, my laptop cost me £250 ($400 approx). For that price I'd rather build myself a nice powerful Windows machine. In the other thread you were talking about Macs being overpriced, but that's the same price as what my iMac cost me, and it's a tablet...

Anyway, let me just add, it's important to me that you don't take any of my responses as hostile - that other thread got stupid and this is just people's preferences for technology.

[GoofyJmaster.]

Originally Posted by DistantJ

I mean there's the first point right there, the disadvantage all PCs and Android devices have compared to a games console or an iDevice - the different specs mean you never know quite how something's going to run. Unless you have a very old iDevice, you can expect everything to run exactly as intended by the developer, whilst with a PC or Android device (i.e. a device which was built independently from the OS software developer), you just never know what you're going to get.

Well, this doesn't matter for people who don't play PC games anyways, especially not graphic intense ones. Also, the only reason he's dual booting is because it was the developer preview of the game. I've never really had something break on PC, and I'm pretty sure most ppl have had the same experience as me. Also, if something is messed up, it's usually fixed ASAP on PCs. I can't say the same about mobile OSes.

And we go back into the realms of PC gaming again. I used to be a PC gamer, then all this graphics cards stuff started showing up and it became a nightmare of fiddling with settings, installing this that the other, until it'd finally work acceptably on your hardware, despite meeting the recommended specs. I mean bumping textures up and down, changing resolution, all that stuff, is something I've been hoping games would move away from since graphics are starting to hit that glass ceiling.

Again, this only applies to hardcore PC gamers that need the best of the best graphics. I've ran games on less powerful computer at lower settings and they still look quite good. It also doesn't take that long to adjust the settings...pretty quick IMO.

Windows 8 will have a base code that will allow devs to make the same game across al Windows platforms easily. So, if you like mobile style gaming and support just play Metro games from the app store. No biggie at all.

This is very cool, will be good in combination with the digitizer for graphics programs etc.

Yup, I plan on using it for mild/light drawing and taking digital notes for co-op and such. i'll probably stick to pen and paper for class notes, but I'm still undecided.

...And not so cool. Again we get back to the PC crapness of having to download this and configure that... This should auto-update, or be like this out of the box.

True! I'm pretty sure stuff like this can be easily fixed. This is definitely not a deal breaker in any form. You're forgetting that there will be two sides of the PC: the Metro side and the Window 7 side.

Why wouldn't it?

People were thinking it was a true start menu button.

Again, exciting...

Oops, I already replied to this.

...and not so exciting. Who wants to sit installing everything they want to use all the time? In my view this goes against what tablet computers are about - simplicity and efficiency. "Blazing fast 5 minute"? Is this what Windows-only users are accustomed to?

Again, there's two sides to it: Win7 and Metro. Take your pick, but they're both there for easy access. Again, iOS is all

I mean, to me, this sounds like an extra-portable laptop, ya know, just without the added bulk of the keyboard and hinge, and if it's going to be this demanding on customisation and installation, well you might as well have a keyboard interface... Does this make sense?

That's the point! It's a laptop-tablet hybrid. Windows 8 will bring that easy, consumer side. Did you do any research on Windows 8. Everyone that has a Slate 7 is running Windows 7 or the developer preview.

Also, you can get a lightweigt keyboard case if you want it to be more like a laptop at any particular time. Honestly, I like writing more than typing, so a digitizer could easily replace the keyboard aspect...IDK.

I would really like to be looking forward to Win 8, because I love Win 7 (I gave up on Windows completely when it was on Vista, I hated that thing and moved entirely to Mac, but Win 7 saved it, used all of Vista's good ideas and a few of OSX's too, great stuff), but again every time I look I just see compromise. Tablets with fans and installations and fiddling with settings to get stuff to work, PCs with full-screen apps and gimped multitasking, the disadvantages of each platform have crossed over to the other.

It's not really gimped multitasking. I thought this too, but started doing more research on it. No one that has it has complained about the fan or anything else like that. Yes, there have been minor complaints, but that's expected with anything. Also, Windows 8 is a tablet overlay of Win7.

[/QUOTE]Potentially, if it comes with a keyboard dock and supports all chipsets (not just the ARM stuff). It'd be ultra-portable, which would be nice.[/QUOTE]

It's only .6 lbs heavier than the iPad and there are plans for the touchscreen ultrabooks, like Lenovo Yoga, to support i7s. Right now the Slate 7 has an i5. Did you look at the breakdown on Tom's hardware. He explains why the Slate is efficient in what it does despite it being a tablet.

I wouldn't think so... For all the functionality it loses efficiency and simplicity. This thing seems more like a computer which you can pull the keyboard off of, than a tablet which you can stick one onto. Almost the inverse of the ASUS Transformer series.

Not really. Judging by review it still has the same good ol' efficiency but in tablet form. A lot of ppl, like myself, find things like the iPad extremely inefficient. I hate the way iOS is set up, and Android is like driving down a zig-zag road with mile high bumps.

Depends what you're looking for. I seriously don't want to be reading the Metro & listening to podcasts on the train on something with a fan whirring away at me, after having to have sat there and waited for the Metro program to install, for its battery to drain after 3 and a half hours. It seems bloated to me.

No indications of the fan being a problem. From my understandin, it really on;y kicks in when you're doing extreme work or have it hooked up to the dock or power supply. Heck, the fan in my current laptop isn't even loud.

He said that you could do hard work for up to 5-6 hours with the brightness turned down to 25%. He also said it was still quite bright at that settkng. If you look at the test the iPad 2 only had this tablet beat by less than 2 hours for the browsing test. And that's win7 and not Metro.

Based on what you've posted, I like the aesthetics of the OS for tablets very much, but I feel that the computer+tablet thing is really holding it back, I just can't see the appeal in a tablet so complicated and resource-heavy, it's practically a laptop sans keyboard.

It's really not. If my mom and little sister can use the home compuer than they can use this, especially after Metro is officially released.

As for the improvements, we can't go saying a device is better/worse based on promises for improvement. Nobody added points to their AWESOME Land reviews because I promised a scoring system later (out in a few days, by the way), and rightly so.

Yes, I understand this, but the dev preview is in the wild and testaments have been made. the consumer preview is being released today.

The real appeal I can see in a Win 8 tablet with keyboard dock is like a much better angle to the ASUS Transformer idea (Say what you will about the Transformer but Android isn't versatile enough to be considered a full laptop OS unless you're the most casual of computer users) - if you need a laptop and a tablet you can kill two birds with one stone and save you money. In my opinion it's not as good as either but you do essentially get both in one device, which is nice.

Well, reviewers/previewers and people who bought the Slate 7 think it's the best.

For me, currently, I feel like I'd be compromising with both; an OS too bloated for an efficient tablet and too basic for a PC.

I still don't know how. it's been proven to handle legacy apps pretty damn well. And metro will only improve the tablet side. And none of the reviewers/previewers are saying anything bad about it as of yet when compared to the iPad. the only thing was battery life, but it's been proven to have a good one. if this thing can do 5 hours, that's probably the most ppl need for hard work. If it can do more on Metro or with light use, that's even better. Again, it's been said that it can last the day with sleep mode and light usage.

What I am looking forward to, is seeing how Apple and Google respond to it with their next OS updates.

Me too. Everything, I've seen about Google points to they don't care. So, either they don't or they have it tightly under wraps. iOS 6 probably won't be anything astounding judging from iOS update history.

Answered this pretty quickly, but I think I hit everything.

If not just let me know.