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  #151  
Old 07-16-2012, 06:05 PM
Robotwars Robotwars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atopix View Post
+1 to this.
Runic, instead of attempting to go out of your way to prevent us from playing this, how about using those same efforts to make an official TL game for us?

I laugh at the amount of hypocrites here. If iMame was rereleased, you'd all download the shit out of it, not caring one bit about the lost royalties to the game makers, yet in an apparent "IP copied" instance, everyone cries foul.
Some of the stupidest, most asinine stuff I've read lately is coming from this thread. This makes absolutely no sense at all.

So because their hard work was stolen so another company could make money they should be all like "OK!" and drop what they're doing and start developing for iOS. Absolutely, positively inane thought process. It just defies all logical thinking.

I love how you start off your sentence with ridiculous straw man. They're not going out of their way to stop you from playing, they're going out of their way to stop someone from stealing their work. You'd have to be a small, pathetic man to sit back and let people take advantage of you. Good for Runic for not standing down to this complete and utter BS. No one should have their hard work stolen. No one. So F you all crying because you don't get some cheap iOS knockoff game because another developer is showing some integrity. Get over it.
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  #152  
Old 07-16-2012, 06:19 PM
atopix atopix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotwars View Post
Some of the stupidest, most asinine stuff I've read lately is coming from this thread. This makes absolutely no sense at all.

So because their hard work was stolen so another company could make money they should be all like "OK!" and drop what they're doing and start developing for iOS. Absolutely, positively inane thought process. It just defies all logical thinking.

I love how you start off your sentence with ridiculous straw man. They're not going out of their way to stop you from playing, they're going out of their way to stop someone from stealing their work. You'd have to be a small, pathetic man to sit back and let people take advantage of you. Good for Runic for not standing down to this complete and utter BS. No one should have their hard work stolen. No one. So F you all crying because you don't get some cheap iOS knockoff game because another developer is showing some integrity. Get over it.
I like how you took the time childishly assault my post, yet ignore the fact I'm 100% right about the iMame comment.
No proof has been issued that pixel for pixel anything has been stolen here. While I appreciate Runic's standpoint in protecting their work, they would not only have to prove the assets are copied and that their game sales are actually being hurt by this release for anything to be done.
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  #153  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:11 PM
jsrco jsrco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atopix View Post
I like how you took the time childishly assault my post, yet ignore the fact I'm 100% right about the iMame comment.
No proof has been issued that pixel for pixel anything has been stolen here. While I appreciate Runic's standpoint in protecting their work, they would not only have to prove the assets are copied and that their game sales are actually being hurt by this release for anything to be done.
On page 6 in this thread it was explained that not only were a lot of texture assests used, but sound the sound assets were as well.

Quote:
Moreover, in Torchlight there is a sword called the 'Sword of Adam'.
It is modeled after our technical artist, and uses his actual voice to say goofy phrases as you swing it.

They used that as well.
From the videos I have seen it looks like Torchlight wasn't the only game that this picked and choosed from.

You also used IMAME to back up your argument.... wasn't that a free emulator? This game is actually trying to make money off of things that it copied from another game. Everything about it is wrong.
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  #154  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:13 PM
tbaldree tbaldree is offline
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Quote:
No proof has been issued that pixel for pixel anything has been stolen here. While I appreciate Runic's standpoint in protecting their work, they would not only have to prove the assets are copied and that their game sales are actually being hurt by this release for anything to be done.
We unzipped the IPA. (which is easy - it's a zip file! )
There is a sound manifest.
The sound names are verbatim the same as ours.
In fact, it even includes the misspellings -
How's that?

Notice things like
ordrakdie.wav
- that's our game's end boss.

Or how about

mechdwardeath1.wav

which we misspelled in our package files ( supposed to be mechdwarfdeath1.wav )

Anyone with a copy of Torchlight, a copy of WinZip, and a download of Armed Heroes can trivially verify this.


Text follows -

town.wav=0
trollattack1.wav=1
trollattack2.wav=2
trollattack3.wav=3
trollattack4.wav=4
trolldeath2.wav=5
trolldeath3.wav=6
trolldeath4.wav=7
trolldeath5.wav=8
trollhit3.wav=9
trollhit4.wav=10
trollhit5.wav=11
trollhit6.wav=12
undeaddwarfattack1.wav=13
undeaddwarfattack2.wav=14
undeaddwarfattack3.wav=15
undeaddwarfattack4.wav=16
undeaddwarfdeath1.wav=17
undeaddwarfdeath3.wav=18
undeaddwarfdeath4.wav=19
undeaddwarfdeath5.wav=20
undeaddwarfgeneralattack1.wav=21
undeaddwarfgeneralattack2.wav=22
undeaddwarfgeneralattack3.wav=23
undeaddwarfgeneralattack4.wav=24
undeaddwarfgeneraldeath1.wav=25
undeaddwarfgeneraldeath3.wav=26
undeaddwarfgeneraldeath4.wav=27
undeaddwarfgeneraldeath5.wav=28
undeaddwarfgeneralhit1.wav=29
undeaddwarfgeneralhit2.wav=30
undeaddwarfgeneralhit3.wav=31
undeaddwarfgeneralhit4.wav=32
undeaddwarfhit1.wav=33
undeaddwarfhit2.wav=34
undeaddwarfhit3.wav=35
undeaddwarfhit4.wav=36
victory.wav=37
woodxlesh1.wav=38
woodxlesh2.wav=39
woodxlesh3.wav=40
xlric-xttack1.wav=41
xlric-xttack2.wav=42
xlric-xttack3.wav=43
xlric-xttack4.wav=44
xlric-xttack5.wav=45
yourenotgood.wav=46
zealotattack1.wav=47
zealotattack2.wav=48
zealotattack3.wav=49
zealotattack4.wav=50
zealotdeath2.wav=51
zealotdeath3.wav=52
zealotdeath4.wav=53
zealotdeath5.wav=54
zealotgethit1.wav=55
zealotgethit2.wav=56
zealotgethit3.wav=57
zealotgethit4.wav=58
zealotlaugh2.wav=59
zombieattack1.wav=60
zombieattack2.wav=61
zombieattack3.wav=62
zombieattack4.wav=63
zombiedeath1.wav=64
zombiedeath2.wav=65
zombiedeath3.wav=66
zombiedeath4.wav=67
zombiehit1.wav=68
zombiehit2.wav=69
zombiehit3.wav=70
zombiehit4.wav=71
soundruins.wav=72
soundvillage.wav=73
title.wav=74
soundlava.wav=75
soundmines.wav=76
soundfortress.wav=77
soundpalace.wav=78
skel_die1.wav=79
skel_die2.wav=80
skel_die3.wav=81
skel_die4.wav=82
slow.wav=83
soundboss.wav=84
soundcavern.wav=85
dragonspawngethit3.wav=86
dragonspawngethit4.wav=87
electricattack1.wav=88
electricattack2.wav=89
electricattack3.wav=90
electricattack4.wav=91
electricattack5.wav=92
electriclongattack2.wav=93
elementalattack1.wav=94
elementalattack2.wav=95
elementalattack3.wav=96
elementalattack4.wav=97
elementaldeathrocks.wav=98
elementalhit1.wav=99
elementalhit2.wav=100
elementalhit3.wav=101
elementalhit4.wav=102
embercolossusattack1.wav=103
embercolossusattack2.wav=104
embercolossusattack3.wav=105
embercolossusattack5.wav=106
embercolossusdie.wav=107
embercolossusgethit1.wav=108
embercolossusgethit2.wav=109
embercolossusgethit3.wav=110
embercolossusgethit4.wav=111
explosion4.wav=112
eyehit.wav=113
finish.wav=114
fireattack3.wav=115
fireattack4.wav=116
fireattack5.wav=117
fireattack6.wav=118
fireattack7.wav=119
firehit.wav=120
fireimp1.wav=121
fireimp2.wav=122
fireimp4.wav=123
firelongattack1.wav=124
firelongattack2.wav=125
gateopen.wav=126
gelattack1.wav=127
gelattack2.wav=128
gelattack3.wav=129
gelattack4.wav=130
geldeath2.wav=131
geldeath3.wav=132
geldeath4.wav=133
geldeath5.wav=134
gelhit1.wav=135
gelhit2.wav=136
gelhit6.wav=137
ghostattack1.wav=138
ghostattack2.wav=139
ghostattack3.wav=140
ghostattack4.wav=141
ghostdie1.wav=142
ghostdie2.wav=143
ghostdie3.wav=144
ghostdie4.wav=145
ghosthit1.wav=146
ghosthit2.wav=147
ghosthit3.wav=148
ghosthit4.wav=149
givepoint.wav=150
gobblerattack1.wav=151
gobblerattack2.wav=152
gobblerattack3.wav=153
gobblerattack4.wav=154
gobblerdeath1.wav=155
gobblerdeath2.wav=156
gobblerdeath3.wav=157
gobblergethit1.wav=158
gobblergethit2.wav=159
gobblergethit3.wav=160
gobblergethit4.wav=161
gobdeath1.wav=162
gobdeath2.wav=163
gobdeath3.wav=164
gobdeath4.wav=165
gobgrumble13.wav=166
gobgrumble14.wav=167
gobgrumble15.wav=168
gobgrumble16.wav=169
gobhit3.wav=170
gobhit4.wav=171
gobhit5.wav=172
gobhit6.wav=173
gold.wav=174
gorecomponent1.wav=175
gorecomponent2.wav=176
gorecomponent3.wav=177
gorecomponent4.wav=178
gorecomponent5.wav=179
gravediggerattack1.wav=180
gravediggerattack2.wav=181
gravediggerattack3.wav=182
gravediggerattack4.wav=183
gravediggerdeath1.wav=184
gravediggerdeath2.wav=185
gravediggerdeath3.wav=186
gravediggerdeath4.wav=187
gravediggergethit1.wav=188
gravediggergethit2.wav=189
gravediggergethit3.wav=190
gravediggergethit4.wav=191
iceattack1.wav=192
iceattack2.wav=193
iceattack3.wav=194
iceimp1.wav=195
iceimp2.wav=196
iceimp3.wav=197
icewandimpact1.wav=198
idle4.wav=199
idle8.wav=200
impossible.wav=201
levelup.wav=202
lightningwandimpact1.wav=203
lightningwandimpact2.wav=204
lightningwandimpact3.wav=205
lightxlesh2.wav=206
magicarrow1.wav=207
magicarrow2.wav=208
magicarrow3.wav=209
mechdwardeath1.wav=210
metalflesh1.wav=211
metalflesh2.wav=212
metalflesh3.wav=213
midstep2.wav=214
miss.wav=215
npcalchemy.wav=216
npcbear.wav=217
npcbelle.wav=218
npcboy.wav=219
npcdr.wav=220
npcgirl.wav=221
npchunter.wav=222
npcjewel.wav=223
npcking.wav=224
npcman.wav=225
npcmedea.wav=226
npcmother.wav=227
npcprophet.wav=228
npcsanji.wav=229
npcshop.wav=230
npcsol.wav=231
npcvillage.wav=232
npcwoman.wav=233
ordrakattack1x.wav=234
ordrakattack1y.wav=235
ordrakattack2x.wav=236
ordrakattack2y.wav=237
ordrakchargegrunt1.wav=238
ordrakchargegrunt2.wav=239
ordrakdie.wav=240
pickup.wav=241
poisongethit2.wav=242
poisongethit3.wav=243
poisongethit4.wav=244
poisonwandimpact1.wav=245
poisonwandimpact2.wav=246
poisonwandimpact3.wav=247
potbreak2.wav=248
potionuseheal.wav=249
prelude.wav=250
questcomplete.wav=251
questreceived.wav=252
ratmanattack1.wav=253
ratmanattack2.wav=254
ratmanattack3.wav=255
ratmanattack4.wav=256
ratmandeath1.wav=257
ratmandeath2.wav=258
ratmandeath3.wav=259
ratmandeath4.wav=260
ratmangethit1.wav=261
ratmangethit2.wav=262
ratmangethit3.wav=263
ratmangethit4.wav=264
rockhit.wav=265
rootgolemdeath1.wav=266
rootgolemdeath2.wav=267
rootgolemdeath3.wav=268
seer_effort1.wav=269
seer_effort2.wav=270
seer_effort3.wav=271
seer_effort4.wav=272
select.wav=273
alchemisteffort1.wav=274
alchemisteffort2.wav=275
alchemisteffort3.wav=276
bagfull.wav=277
batmanattack1.wav=278
batmanattack2.wav=279
batmanattack3.wav=280
batmanattack4.wav=281
batmandeath1.wav=282
batmandeath2.wav=283
batmandeath3.wav=284
batmandeath4.wav=285
batmangethit1.wav=286
batmangethit2.wav=287
batmangethit3.wav=288
batmangethit4.wav=289
bigbluntimp1.wav=290
bigbluntimp2.wav=291
blast1.wav=292
blast2.wav=293
blast3.wav=294
bowmiss.wav=295
burrowerattack2.wav=296
burrowerattack3.wav=297
burrowerattack4.wav=298
burrowerattack5.wav=299
burrowerdeath1.wav=300
burrowerdeath2.wav=301
burrowerdeath3.wav=302
burrowergethit2.wav=303
burrowergethit3.wav=304
burrowergethit4.wav=305
burrowergethit5.wav=306
cast5.wav=307
chaindrop.wav=308
chainget.wav=309
cratebreak3.wav=310
darthit1.wav=311
darthit2.wav=312
deathhit.wav=313
die.wav=314
discipleattack1.wav=315
discipleattack2.wav=316
discipleattack3.wav=317
discipleattack4.wav=318
discipledeath1.wav=319
discipledeath2.wav=320
discipledeath3.wav=321
discipledeath4.wav=322
disciplegethit1.wav=323
disciplegethit2.wav=324
disciplegethit3.wav=325
disciplegethit4.wav=326
dragonspawnattack1.wav=327
dragonspawnattack2.wav=328
dragonspawnattack3.wav=329
dragonspawnattack4.wav=330
dragonspawndeath1.wav=331
dragonspawndeath2.wav=332
dragonspawndeath3.wav=333
dragonspawndeath4.wav=334
dragonspawngethit1.wav=335
dragonspawngethit2.wav=336
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  #155  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:39 PM
Tutt22 Tutt22 is offline
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How could they think nobody would notice? That's pretty bad. Though, I guess I didn't notice and I played Torchlight.
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  #156  
Old 07-16-2012, 08:22 PM
Ashenor Ashenor is offline
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Down with Armed Heroes, up with another TL2 Beta weekend!
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  #157  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:36 PM
Exact-Psience Exact-Psience is offline
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Too bad, this was a good looking game. But i think the devs on this one went too low and too ignorant thinking theyd get away with it.
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  #158  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:44 PM
kazcat42 kazcat42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atopix View Post
...I'm 100% right about the iMame comment...
100% is a rather large number, lets go with 99% as there is bound to be at least one person who disagrees.

Anyways, you are talking about an emulator for some really old games. The first Mame emulator was released in 1997. Copyright protection is not meant to be infinite and it fact is used to be just 14 years. Now it is the lifetime of the author + 70 years in many cases. (For an informative youtube video using Disney animation see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo))

I think that the younger generation expects copyright to be a shorter duration than life + 70 years. I mean, would you feel guilty about "pirating" Pong? I do not support what these people are doing with Torchlight assets, but iMame is totally different, heck it was setup to "preserve gaming history by preventing vintage games from being lost or forgotten.(Wikipedia)

Next time please compare apples to apples not desiccated husks. Thanks!
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  #159  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:54 PM
kazcat42 kazcat42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodapp View Post
A pow wow is definitely in order behind the scenes to try to fix it though. Maybe a karma system might work, who knows.
I know what the problem is, TA has gotten too big and the trolls have found us! But please, don't censor. What might work is a down voting option. When a comment is down voted so many times it is auto hidden. That way people wanting to read a constructive forum can, but people wanting the full conversation can click on the hidden posts to view them. Just a thought...
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  #160  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:58 PM
Wizard_Mike Wizard_Mike is offline
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I understand people's desire to somehow reconcile this situation so they can just have the game type they so desire. The iOS market really does need some high quality ARPGs and MMOs, so when something that's both comes along it's really exciting.

That's absolutely no excuse to support the blatant theft another developer's assets, though.

Luckily we have Infinity Blade Dungeons and Project Dragon to look forward to. Also Solomon's Keep Deluxe in the distant future (remake of a really awesome dual stick dungeon crawler of which the original is still available).

But for this game, people just need to stop being so selfish and put themselves in Runic's shoes. If you wrote a book, recorded a song, created a work of art, or any other type of creative work and that was your livelihood (ie how you payed for groceries), not just your hobby, then how happy would you be to find your work copied and sold by someone without your permission? Would you really just be like "Haha, no worries bro!"

There's laws about this stuff for a reason. It's not ethical at all. How ethical do you think supporting unethical activity is? Just because you want it or there's no better options for you to play does not make it any less unethical.
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