Fieldrunners 2 HD - (by Subatomic Studios, LLC)

[Markku]

Just want to say I played for about a hour no crashes so I assume it's fixed.

[AtomicAlec]

Awesome, lots of questions! Should have answers about everything below. Thanks for all the feedback!

But first, a few things to note:

- The original Fieldrunners for iPad has an update that is about to begin exit testing (final in-house testing phase). Barring any issues discovered during exit testing, I expect to see it live in the App Store in the next 4 weeks.

- There is currently no IAP in the iPad version. This is likely to change, but for now, you can update safely without adding IAP to the game (although people with the iPhone version say that they don't notice it there, either).

- We did indeed fix crashing bugs, long load times, and other funkiness with this update. The audio issue was not fixed, but I've got it on our to-do list.

Originally Posted by Sithinious

I'm not even sure there IS IAP in the HD version... Maybe in only the basic feildrunners 2? If there is an IAP store in the HD version, it's incredibly well hidden.

No IAP in the iPad version yet. There probably will be in the future. That said, it will be hidden enough that you won't notice it unless you want it

Originally Posted by pavarotti2007

What you're offering is not DLC though is it? I'm all for IAP for extra content/DLC etc as I don't think devs should update their games with new content for nothing. So paying for new maps etc is great but coins? Optional or not, this game is £5.49. Any IAP imo should be for content. A better way for you guys to cash in a bit more would have been just to add an IAP of unlock all or something similar. Consumable IAP in a game with this kind of price tag is not good.

You have said in the past that the price tag was high because you felt that it needed to be priced like that so you could keep making games and because it was a premium game with no IAP. So now that you have the IAP stream of income, will the initial price of the app change? Or are you having the best of both worlds?

Take a look at Tower Madness, the IAP model in that game is great. Maybe you'll learn something. I gladly paid £5.49 for that game, then paid 4x69p for 4 map packs and then a further £1.49 for the recent map pack and it was well worth it.

Totally valid argument. It's hard to determine what is "DLC" and what isn't. Is the new BOOM-kin Tower DLC? Maybe, but I usually associate DLC with expansions more than a single new weapon. Whether it is or it isn't, we plan on continually introducing new content like this and we wanted it to be purchasable with in-game currency. Our approach to IAP allowed us to let folks earn coins to buy this stuff the old fashioned way or simply buy coin bundles to pay for this content. Seems like a reasonable trade-off, since most people here will get new content for free, while others will pay for it.

Regarding the price, you have to understand that this game cost significantly more to develop than just about any other iOS game I've ever heard of. We definitely had to go with the price point that we did, and while it may have been possible to recoup expenses with that alone, adding IAP will theoretically reduce the risk on our end by a huge amount. Since game development is inherently risky, it's crucial to reduce risk as much as possible whenever you can (without hurting your game, which is exactly the trick that we managed to pull off).

Thanks for the suggestion about Tower Madness - I'll be sure to check it out!

Originally Posted by Sojourn

I think the frustration from a lot of players (or at least posters in this forum) is coming not from the argument of IAP as an inherently good or bad thing, but from the experience we've had with the game so far:

1) The game was previewed on TA. Hype built. Lovers of the first game were excited for FR2. iPad owners were reassured that their issues would be addressed once FR2 was released, as all resources were being poured into the sequel.
2) The iPhone version launched, to great acclaim. iPad owners were disappointed -- not only was the game not Universal, but the iPad version wasn't even ready yet. But it was coming soon. So we held on.
3) iPad users kept hearing how awesome the iPhone version was. "Soon" turned into two months of waiting for the iPad version, which was especially difficult for users like myself, who were holding out for the iPad version to stay "spoiler-free". Meanwhile, the original FR for iPad did not get updated (for Retina or bug fixes).
4) The iPad version finally launched much later than originally announced. Many users, myself included, bought it instantly -- only to find it mostly unplayable. Constant and consistent crashes, lost progress. Frustrating, not only for a game that was relatively expensive, but moreso for a game we had been so eagerly anticipating, and had been told was delayed due to exhaustive QA testing.
5) Since then, it's been a month and a half, there has been one update that has fixed some but not all of the crashing, FR1 on iPad still hasn't been updated, and now we're finally getting a new update (which is already half a week late according to your forum post last week, Alec) that instead of just fixing the issues keeping all of us from enjoying the game we purchased, are adding a controversial new feature.

Here's the thing, and I want to make this totally clear -- I think you guys have put a tremendous amount of work into FR2, and it's a beautiful game that you should be very proud of. I don't want to take that away from you, because I can only imagine how much time and especially care you have obviously poured into this creation of yours. I can see it in all the little details of the game, and I love it because of that.

However. I am frustrated as a customer because I haven't gotten to fully enjoy all that care, all those little details -- because my game keeps crashing. I've been waiting for a month for an update to fix it (more), all the while being reassured that it would be put out as soon as possible . . . and instead, I'm getting an update with IAP. I don't begrudge you adding it like so many here probably will -- I probably won't use it, and I respect that you've designed it so I don't have to -- but I wish the update that would have let me actually *play* the game had come out a lot sooner, instead of feeling like it was delayed so this new payment structure could be added. A version 1.15 would have been much appreciated before 1.2. I know you have limited resources, and you're limited by the update approval process, but we've all seen developers push out bug fix updates much faster than one month later to fix basic usability issues.

In any event, I've been checking my App Store updates multiple times a day to see if FR2 is in there -- I'm really excited to give it another whirl. The times I've played it without it crashing have been pretty great -- but it's always crashed at some point. I'm excited to see that come to an end with this new update, and I hope this helps to explain the reaction you guys are getting here in the TA community. I'd love to hear your thoughts (including other TAers -- hopefully I explained the situation accurately and fairly)!

That makes perfect sense, thanks for articulating how folks feel! You'll be glad to know that this update fixed most bugs AND we've got the update for the original Fieldrunners for iPad just about wrapped up Adding IAP was less than a day of work, whereas all the bug fixes took much longer, so it definitely didn't do anything to delay those other fixes, despite what it may have looked like.

Thanks again for sharing! I hope to hear that this new update solved all the problems you pointed out in our game

Originally Posted by sapphire_neo

The simple solution to consumable iAP in high-score and leaderboard games is to immediately sandbox customers into separate leaderboards as soon as they buy iAP. They want convenience? Sure, the price is the inability to compete with people who don't want to pay for convenience.

Interesting suggestion. I'm pretty firmly in the camp that the competitive advantage someone gains by buying coins instead of building their skills and working their way up is nonexistent. If someone didn't put the time in to unlock those towers the old fashioned way, there is simply no way they will be able to compete with your scores by simply buying the towers. They just won't understand the game mechanics as well as someone who works their way up. Do you feel differently?

Originally Posted by defred34

I said the same thing in the iPhone thread. With the game being so difficult even in easy mode, I suspect it was part of the plan to incorporate IAPs some point in the future. They created a smokescreen for their envious plans. Shameful developers.

So, if you've played the original Fieldrunners, you know that we don't make games that are easy. We tuned the difficulty independently from any thoughts about IAP. There definitely was no plan for us to make it really hard in an effort to get people to buy IAP - if there was, it would have been kind of silly for us to make casual mode easier and decrease the cost of items, like we did in the first update. Not saying that to be defensive, but it seems appropriate to shed more light on what's happening behind the scenes.

(1/2 cont'd below)

[AtomicAlec]

(cont'd from above)

Originally Posted by defred34

Here is my take on this. I copied the from the iPhone thread of the game.

Ok guys, I think I cracked the Pandor box here. I am pretty happy with my thoughts on this.

Subatomic makes Fieldrunners 2, decide to become multi-millionaires. So they bring out an iPhone version, then an iPad version 2 months later at about 2.5 times the price.

They decided that's not enough. They want more. So, from the beginning itself, they planned a higher than normal difficulty level. A lot of seemingly hardcore players found the normal mode arduously challenging (correct me if I am wrong). At this point, there were no IAPs at all, so gamers just took the higher than normal difficulty curve as a challenge.

Now, some 3 1/2 months after release, when the coffers are running dry, the guys at SUbatomic device to unleash the atom bomb (no puns). IAPs. They claim it is warranted by 3 people sending in email requests over 3 days to get IAPs in to cut short the process of playing the game.

In true fact, the difficulty was jacked up, and a lot of frustrated gamers who already spent money buying the game will think that "OH well, lets just spend another $4.99 to finish this crap off". The fact that people are defending this move simply because they're not making it more difficult is a tad foolish, since the game was already more than difficult to begin with.

I call this a bull. Subatomic are just devious people like MadFinger, just that they've done this a little more subtlety and cleverly, so much so good ol' Eli has fallen into their trap as well. What say you? To me, if indeed this is what transpired, I wish the guys at Subatomic to their graves.

TL;DR: The game's difficulty was artificially inflated from the onset with the aim of introducing IAPs at some point after release to make progress 'easier' and 'faster'.

You guys are giving us way more credit in the planning department than we deserve, haha. As you can tell from our launch dates constantly slipping, planning is not our strongest department As I said above, greed is definitely not a motivating factor. None of us have become millionaires from this game. We run a game development studio, though, and the only way for us to keep this studio running is by making sure that we cover our costs for Fieldrunners 2. We did have some talk about IAP early in development, but those plans were scrapped 6 months before launch. Once we launched, we were getting a few emails every day asking for IAP, so that pushed us towards adding IAP back in. Every change we've made has been a result of fan feedback - IAP included.

I wish we were as good at planning as you are suggesting, haha

Originally Posted by september

It was fairly obvious the game was designed around IAP from first play, all the hooks were already there.

I would be more impressed if support emails were resolved before this kind of malarkey. I doubt I'll be so quick to buy another game from Subatomic in future, I've bought FR PSP, PC and now FR 2, all have outstanding issues. Part of making money is treating your customers fairly, fail that and there will be a delayed but definite impact.

All support emails have been resolved for FR2 except for the audio issue The PSP and PC versions of the original Fieldrunners are unlikely to change, though, since the contractors originally on those projects aren't available at the moment (both ports were outsourced). We're doing a lot more in-house this time around to be able to give better, more consistent support.

Originally Posted by defred34

Aah, how convenient Mr Alec. I like the way you make this sound simple, and make it look like you're the one being victimised here.

Take my word for it, come clean by saying this was intended from the start and you'll get back some respect from some of us.

As I said above, we had thought about including IAP but axed it about 6 months before launch. I definitely don't mean to be playing a victim here Does that count as coming clean? Happy to shed more light on our decision making process, but there isn't really a whole lot of info that I haven't already said.

Originally Posted by tabs

Again, I would like to say I don't care about the inclusion of iAP, BUT...

How many people actually asked for iAP to be added? AND...

How many people are actually asking for the bugs to be fixed?

Please fix the crashing, stuttering audio, and loading time, I think you owe us that, at least.

Loading and crashing has been fixed Regarding requests for IAP, we received several every single day since launch. Fixing the main issues was our priority, so once we saw we could get that done, adding IAP was a small task tacked on top of the more important stuff.

Originally Posted by CzarCastic

I think you've made your point. Can we please move on? You're not going to hear what you want to hear. If you're upset, then show it with your wallet. Don't play the game. Don't buy any IAP. For the rest of us, we'll continue to play and enjoy this game.

I really like the Fieldrunners series. If I want to continue to get new content and updated editions of the game, then I need to hope for the success of Atomic. If this means they need to adapt their games to the current climate of the App Store, then so be it.

Thanks for your support!

Originally Posted by tabs

Wow, I'm surprised to see the update with bug fixes and faster loading time (my concerns with the game). Any thoughts? Can't play till I get home. I don't care bout iAP, I curious to see if the bugs and loading time are fixed.

Haha, don't be surprised. It's important for us to get the kinks in the game ironed out

Originally Posted by Baracus

Load times definitely improved but I still get sound break up around wave 35 of any map
Haven't played long enough to say about any other bugs coz that sounds stops me wanting to continue.

We definitely have to continue looking into this audio issue. It's on our to-do list, for sure!

Originally Posted by MaxPower

Alec, I have a suggestion for the game. I love that you can build and modify towers while the game is paused. IMO, this is one of the things that sets the game apart from many other tower defense type games. It allows you to strategize more and not have to worry about having fast fingers to modify everything during play. I like that you can sell back any towers you build when the game is paused for the full price. However, if you delete or upgrade existing towers while the game is paused there doesn’t seem to be a way to undo that. I’d like to see an “undo” or “reset all changes” button that would set your towers back to the way they were when you paused the game. That would allow you to try a couple of different schemes to see what you like the best.

Love the game though. Definitely my favorite iOS game at the moment.

Interesting suggestion! I'll have to talk to the team about it and see what they think. Thanks for the feedback!

Originally Posted by Markku

This game is great when it works but its crashing all the time on my iPad 2, I was hesitant buying this game but I thought its like the price of takeout and I may like the food or hate it, right now the first bite is leaving a bad taste in my mouth and I wouldn't buy again, for this price on the iOS this app should not crash this much, I played yesterday and it crashed like 10 times, this is crazy and I'm starting to feel ripped if this dosent get addressed, I will not order desert aka dlc please fix this undercooked meal.

For iPad 1 and 2, do the following:

1) Force quit out of the game
2) Go to Settings>Fieldrunners2HD and turn off both Retina Graphics and 32-Bit Graphics
3) Boot the game again

Things should run perfectly after you do that!

We're considering a few different ways that would allow us to automate this process, but we haven't come up with a workable solution yet. Until then, manually making these changes is the only way to go. If that doesn't help, shoot us an email at bugs[at]subatomicstudios[dot]com.

Let me know if you folks have any other suggestions or feedback!

[sapphire_neo]

Originally Posted by AtomicAlec

Interesting suggestion. I'm pretty firmly in the camp that the competitive advantage someone gains by buying coins instead of building their skills and working their way up is nonexistent. If someone didn't put the time in to unlock those towers the old fashioned way, there is simply no way they will be able to compete with your scores by simply buying the towers. They just won't understand the game mechanics as well as someone who works their way up. Do you feel differently?

Well, if coins could only buy you towers as permanent unlocks then iAP would be no issue at all (given also that grinding wouldn't be excessive for later content), however in the game you can also purchase single use items. Consumable currency that can buy you single use items is what can cause a tilt in the leaderboards, even if it's only at the lower levels. This is more evident in certain other games, but I believe if that if a virtual currency can buy consumable items then we need separate leaderboards. Also, this becomes a non-issue with something like Punch Quest, which is purely freemium.

The entire crux of the problem is the marriage of premium with consumable iAP. My interest in FR2 is limited but I understand that whatever money you make from the iAP is only going to go back into development for more FR2 content, FR3 development and more projects down the line. The only question is, does this gateway consumable iAP lead to bigger changes in your game design? If the iAP turns out to be truly profitable, wouldn't it be more lucrative to gently nudge a greater percentage of customers to buying at least one or two packs?

[AtomicAlec]

Hey guys! Do you have an idea for a cool, new item you'd like us to add to Fieldrunners 2? It just so happens that we're holding a contest - submit a brilliant idea for an item and we'll add it to the game!

Click here to check out the contest on our Facebook page!

Our designers will choose the winner today, so be sure to get your submissions in soon!

@sapphire_neo - I will have to respond with an answer later. Totally get what you're saying. The answer to the questions in your last line are basically that I'm not sure - we'll have to see what happens.

[september]

When will the iCloud bug be fixed where if you reset your progress in the options it is replaced by what you had regardless?

Due to a borked save caused by a bug in the game I have to have iCloud off otherwise it restores it which isn't practical. Has been a known issue for awhile now.

[Boobi]

It's on sale for $2.99. Paid full price when it came out.

[Jet_Black]

AtomicAlec prepare for a deluge of complaints as more people have bought this because of the price drop. I just bought this & cannot believe that the loading times are painfully long & to add insult to injury it then crashes when a level loads, very poor show... I thought this game was supposed to be fixed after all this time, look at the reviews on the App Store too, they are all echoing what I've just said. What a waste of money. I've deleted it after an hour of trying to play it, I'll now wait for further updates before I play it again ( whenever that may be). I'm running this on an iPad 3 iOS 6 if that's of any help.

[MarkDF]

Originally Posted by Jet_Black

AtomicAlec prepare for a deluge of complaints as more people have bought this because of the price drop. I just bought this & cannot believe that the loading times are painfully long & to add insult to injury it then crashes when a level loads, very poor show.

I have been (still am) excited about the price drop. I've been running the iPhone version of FieldRunners 2 on my iPad 2 for a while with no problems.

[jps1012]

Is it worth it to buy this if I have the iPhone version? I was thinking of maybe getting the original fieldrunners for iPad instead since I never played. What do u guys think?