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  #141  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:28 AM
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DistantJ DistantJ is offline
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I've always believed in selling a product, that's why all of my games are a one-off purchase with no IAP. There will be 'free to play' FreakZone games in the future but the majority will continue to be paid products for as long as that model sustains itself because it's what I believe in as a gamer.

However, what you guys have to understand is that the competition of apps has got prices down so low that even when you sell thousands of units the work doesn't pay for itself. Freemium is a sneaky free alternative to advertising. For every ten people who download a paid app about a thousand download a free one, a thousand people who would have cost you money to advertise a paid app to. Then they tell their friends, who tell their friends, and the hope is that out of the number of people who download the free app, more in total purchase an IAP than would have bought the paid app. I have a whole bunch of very original ideas which just aren't going to sell the way a Mario tribute (Awesome Land) or fake NES game with ties to a movie (MANOS: The Hands of Fate) do.

I'm in a community of developers, and out of them it's pretty much only myself and the feller behind Pocket Ninjas who have made enough money to put food on the table. Pocket Ninjas became heavily profitable when it went free to play, whilst I've continued to take more of a slow trickle of an income in order to keep MANOS and AWESOME Land's integrity. Free to play can be fair though, Pocket Ninjas is a good example of where it's acceptable - anything you can purchase with IAP you can purchase with in-game currency with a bit of grinding, and it's not grindy to the point that it's no fun, like a lot of IAP-based games. The IAP is a sort of 'skip ahead faster' option there, which I think is fine.

Consoles are terrible for it, they charge $50 for the game itself and then try to sell you the part they cut out for a further $20. Unfortunately people have got to fiddle things a bit to profit from a market who consider $2 expensive.

Last edited by DistantJ; 11-13-2012 at 05:33 AM..
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  #142  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:39 AM
Issac Issac is offline
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Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
Won't be until long into next year, sorry. Tons of stuff going in, we're really excited about it.

It's all good! I'm just happy you told me about it! (in another thread). And that you are making it!
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  #143  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:46 AM
Vovin Vovin is offline
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Originally Posted by Issac View Post
And like a lot of people here in the forums, I do feel the dev's deserve much respect for putting in soooooooooo much effort into something that - in reality - would go for $8 - $20 on PSN/XBLA/Steam/GOG/3DS etc. and then occasionally I get it for (next to) nothing. And like many in this post have pointed out, then people still bitch about it. Yikes!

^This.
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  #144  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:50 AM
Vovin Vovin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistantJ View Post
I've always believed in selling a product, that's why all of my games are a one-off purchase with no IAP. There will be 'free to play' FreakZone games in the future but the majority will continue to be paid products for as long as that model sustains itself because it's what I believe in as a gamer.

However, what you guys have to understand is that the competition of apps has got prices down so low that even when you sell thousands of units the work doesn't pay for itself. Freemium is a sneaky free alternative to advertising. For every ten people who download a paid app about a thousand download a free one, a thousand people who would have cost you money to advertise a paid app to. Then they tell their friends, who tell their friends, and the hope is that out of the number of people who download the free app, more in total purchase an IAP than would have bought the paid app. I have a whole bunch of very original ideas which just aren't going to sell the way a Mario tribute (Awesome Land) or fake NES game with ties to a movie (MANOS: The Hands of Fate) do.

I'm in a community of developers, and out of them it's pretty much only myself and the feller behind Pocket Ninjas who have made enough money to put food on the table. Pocket Ninjas became heavily profitable when it went free to play, whilst I've continued to take more of a slow trickle of an income in order to keep MANOS and AWESOME Land's integrity. Free to play can be fair though, Pocket Ninjas is a good example of where it's acceptable - anything you can purchase with IAP you can purchase with in-game currency with a bit of grinding, and it's not grindy to the point that it's no fun, like a lot of IAP-based games. The IAP is a sort of 'skip ahead faster' option there, which I think is fine.

Consoles are terrible for it, they charge $50 for the game itself and then try to sell you the part they cut out for a further $20. Unfortunately people have got to fiddle things a bit to profit from a market who consider $2 expensive.

Really good statement, thanks for the insights.

I guess that most of those critics, IAP and price complainers need to be devs themselves - even for just a short time - to understand how difficult the constant struggle to be successful is. And what it takes to make a game.

I remember one developer saying: "Now that my game is finished, the real work begins."... I think he meant all that advertising stuff, bug fixing, adding content - and in general: making money with the game. I guess he's right.

Last edited by Vovin; 11-13-2012 at 05:57 AM..
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  #145  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:00 AM
defred34 defred34 is offline
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Originally Posted by Vovin View Post
No, Lad. It's YOUR rep which just went down the drain completely.
Calling people "idiots" just because they want to support their favourite devs or simply appreciate the devs work is more than dumb.
Even I asked a few developers to add IAP to have the chance to donate some money to them - I got their games for free but wanted to give them at least a token of appreciation for their good work. Two friends of mine also did asking for IAPs.
An example? I got ARC Squadron for a lousy buck - and I felt I've somehow robbed the devs cause I played the game two complete evenings with lots of fun and I am still playing it. I was actually glad to have the chance to buy the 550,000 ARCBucks pack - even tho I didn't need the in-game money. I also was really impressed by the devs donation to Red Cross and wanted to give a bit back. I just hope the devs earn enough to produce more high quality games like ARC Squadron.
If that makes me an idiot, ok, so be it.
What Rubicon said is true. You are wrong.
You are missing the whole point. If that's the case, just ask them for a PayPal account and done them as must $$$ as you like.

Btw, I am not saying all IAPs are bad. But I am saying MOST are. One of my best games this year is Lili, and it had consumable IAPs. Free games like Major Mayhem and Heroes Call also rank high on my favorites list.

Still, if I wanted to support these devs, I'd either buy more of their games or donate via PayPal. In the case of Heroes Call, I bought additional characters.
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  #146  
Old 11-13-2012, 10:16 AM
CockyCulture CockyCulture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistantJ View Post
I'm in a community of developers, and out of them it's pretty much only myself and the feller behind Pocket Ninjas who have made enough money to put food on the table. Pocket Ninjas became heavily profitable when it went free to play, whilst I've continued to take more of a slow trickle of an income in order to keep MANOS and AWESOME Land's integrity. Free to play can be fair though, Pocket Ninjas is a good example of where it's acceptable - anything you can purchase with IAP you can purchase with in-game currency with a bit of grinding, and it's not grindy to the point that it's no fun, like a lot of IAP-based games. The IAP is a sort of 'skip ahead faster' option there, which I think is fine.
Thanks for the mention DistantJ Just like you stated, when I added IAPs to pocket Ninjas I did it with the specific intention of it being treated as a "skip ahead" method rather than a necessity. I've also had to go back and tweak the in game prices of items several time to make sure the user doesn't feel forced to purchase an IAP.

I think for every developer (at least for smaller ones) its a learning process that can take time and tweaking on how to keep a title profitable without hurting the end user experience. I recently added some advertising which for some seemed overboard so I scaled it back in the latest release. Its definitely a balancing act.

The best advice I've been given in regards to earning a living in this field is to spend almost as much time planning how to monetize your game appropriately as you do on the game development itself, with the thought being if you plan it right ahead of time, the player won't feel cheated and neither will the developer.
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  #147  
Old 11-13-2012, 10:32 AM
MidianGTX MidianGTX is offline
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Originally Posted by defred34 View Post
You are missing the whole point. If that's the case, just ask them for a PayPal account and done them as must $$$ as you like.
Considering IAP is almost becoming a necessity in an increasingly hostile marketplace and isn't simply an option developers choose out of greediness... why not just use it? This whole "I'll give you money for nothing, but not in exchange for goods or services" approach reeks of arrogance and is such a roundabout way of helping out it's nigh on pointless. High horse morals won't earn you any respect. If you really want to support a developer just shut up and do it.
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  #148  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:38 AM
Vovin Vovin is offline
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Originally Posted by MidianGTX View Post
Considering IAP is almost becoming a necessity in an increasingly hostile marketplace and isn't simply an option developers choose out of greediness... why not just use it? This whole "I'll give you money for nothing, but not in exchange for goods or services" approach reeks of arrogance and is such a roundabout way of helping out it's nigh on pointless. High horse morals won't earn you any respect. If you really want to support a developer just shut up and do it.

I wish I could understand if this was also pointed at me. Bashed straight against a language/slang barrier.
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  #149  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:55 AM
DannyTheElite DannyTheElite is offline
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@rubicon
Is there a sequel to great big war game coming?

About IAP I think it should be cosmetic upgrades only or if u do money once u buy it you cannot post to leader boards because people just buy their way to the top.
Also I think we, the gamers ruined the App Store with the fact we will never pay a lot of money for a game.this pushes developers down the freemium route.
Personally I would pay up to 10 if the game was worth it.
Also if I got it free i buy the extra characters if I feel that the game is good enough.

Last edited by DannyTheElite; 11-13-2012 at 12:01 PM..
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  #150  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:40 PM
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Rubicon Rubicon is offline
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Originally Posted by DannyTheElite View Post
@rubicon
Is there a sequel to great big war game coming?
One is planned after we ship our newest creation, yes. That won't be ftp but our new game probably will be.
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