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  #31  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:06 AM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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Since the developer has previously claimed that no testers of his game has ever managed to solve any of the last 5 levels (I think that was what he meant in his previous post) in final release version of the game, here is a *non-spoiler* screenshot showing completion of Level 58.



Obviously, I have covered up parts of the map to prevent spoiling the puzzle. The rest of the open areas in the map are not used in the puzzle (at least in any solution I can forsee), so it is safe to see.

I chose this level as my "final" attempt because it is the LAST LEVEL in the game without having to deal with uncaged werewolves.

I agree with the developer that this is yet another puzzle with a truly ingenious out-of-the-box thinking and unusual application of known mechanics (in this case, the balloons) in the game. This level is also manageable to play because the "synchronization" element only exists in the last part of the solution and there is only a single element which you need to focus your attention. As explanation previously, this makes the experimentation more manageable and doable with only a single save state.

Last edited by y2kmp3; 01-18-2014 at 11:12 AM..
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  #32  
Old 01-19-2014, 02:10 PM
Connector Connector is offline
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Tried the game, interesting puzzle game, would there be any chance for a vstick control option?
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  #33  
Old 01-19-2014, 06:13 PM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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I can understand it. For this game, I've been designing the levels for quite a long time. I didn't record the solutions initially, because I thought I could easily remember them. However, when the game was almost finished, I needed to retest everything and found out that I forgot the solutions of some of the really hard ones completely! So I needed to go through a similar process as a normal player But I can understand your point and will think about improving the playing experience from this point of view.

As one of the keys to this game, you can take the following: Every level is built around some (I hope) elegant main idea. So you can think what this could be. This was my approach to solving the forgotten levels - what special idea could be incorporated there? No need to test too many options.

For example, when you find yourself fighting with werewolves too much, then this is probably not the intended way of the level solution. This game is mostly logical, the werewolves are there as a kind of obstacle you have to deal logically with (e.g. lock them, hide yourself, have enough time for escape at the final stage of the level, etc.), not to fight with them too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
For a puzzle game, there are always two gameplay components: experimentation to locate a solution, and implementation of a found solution. For a developer who created the puzzle, it is easy to forgot the former and make the game hard just to increase playability of the latter. However, this approach is faulty as it ignores the massive burden increase placed on the player to experiment with the game to locate said solution. Making the process of experimentation overly tedious and punishing difficult will not make the game fun. Even for Super Meat Boy, with its extreme difficulty, the restart is near instantaneous, thus allowing for extreme rapid experimentation.

Edit: Removed my comments about Level 60 since werewolf informed that it appears the stock solution is different from my partial approach.

Last edited by werewolf; 01-19-2014 at 07:02 PM..
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  #34  
Old 01-19-2014, 06:16 PM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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Congratulations! You must be very smart.
Maybe you could still try 59 and 60 ... they are built on some really interesting ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
Since the developer has previously claimed that no testers of his game has ever managed to solve any of the last 5 levels (I think that was what he meant in his previous post) in final release version of the game, here is a *non-spoiler* screenshot showing completion of Level 58.
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  #35  
Old 01-19-2014, 08:46 PM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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I really like the analysis of your approach. This is almost exactly what happened to me. In fact, when I tried to replay some of the later levels just a few days later, I frequently found myself not being able to reproduce my solutions. Again, it truly speaks to how clever your game is!

One difference between you and us (the players) when approaching a level is that you ALREADY know the clever idea for each one, even when you may not remember exactly the steps needed to reproduce it. By contrast, we DO NOT know what clever idea is behind each level. Thus, we need to experiment to find out which one. It is a subtle but critical distinction.

PS: Thanks for the kudos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by werewolf View Post
I can understand it. For this game, I've been designing the levels for quite a long time. I didn't record the solutions initially, because I thought I could easily remember them. However, when the game was almost finished, I needed to retest everything and found out that I forgot the solutions of some of the really hard ones completely! So I needed to go through a similar process as a normal player But I can understand your point and will think about improving the playing experience from this point of view.

As one of the keys to this game, you can take the following: Every level is built around some (I hope) elegant main idea. So you can think what this could be. This was my approach to solving the forgotten levels - what special idea could be incorporated there? No need to test too many options.

For example, when you find yourself fighting with werewolves too much, then this is probably not the intended way of the level solution. This game is mostly logical, the werewolves are there as a kind of obstacle you have to deal logically with (e.g. lock them, hide yourself, have enough time for escape at the final stage of the level, etc.), not to fight with them too much.
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  #36  
Old 01-20-2014, 07:32 PM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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Hi Connector, thank you. I will think about the controls optimization. However, in this game, you mainly tell Fred where to go, not how to make each step. So not sure how this vstick control would work. Anyway, I might consider it as an alternative to "tap and Fred will walk there" style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Connector View Post
Tried the game, interesting puzzle game, would there be any chance for a vstick control option?
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  #37  
Old 01-20-2014, 07:34 PM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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I think I know how is solving a hard level. First, it seems impossible, then you start seeing outlines of a possible idea hidden there ...
After few months, I forgot even main ideas of several hard levels. So really had to execute the regular level solution process. For one level, I even didn't find this idea and had to redesign it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
I really like the analysis of your approach. This is almost exactly what happened to me. In fact, when I tried to replay some of the later levels just a few days later, I frequently found myself not being able to reproduce my solutions. Again, it truly speaks to how clever your game is!

One difference between you and us (the players) when approaching a level is that you ALREADY know the clever idea for each one, even when you may not remember exactly the steps needed to reproduce it. By contrast, we DO NOT know what clever idea is behind each level. Thus, we need to experiment to find out which one. It is a subtle but critical distinction.

PS: Thanks for the kudos.

Last edited by werewolf; 01-21-2014 at 06:27 AM..
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  #38  
Old 02-04-2014, 10:08 AM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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Having now solved all 60 levels of the game (finally), I want to leave a final word of my impression of this wonderful game.

Don't be dissuaded by the seemingly cutesy graphics and the easiness of the tutorial levels, the later levels in this game are truly brilliant and clever (and very, very hard). This is absolutely a gem of a game for any puzzle fan. The solutions for many levels frequently require out-of-the-box thinking and use of multitude of clever tactics.

Despite the fact that the later levels may at first appear to be seemingly "impossible" to complete, they are also immensely satisfying to solve once you see the "trick" to the solutions behind them. Few puzzle games can deliver this level of satisfaction. Moreover, many of these levels can be surprisingly solved in different ways (confirmed with the developer). While these alternative solutions may not be what the developer intended, it also speaks to be cleverness of the level design in this game that allows for different strategies to be used.

A must buy for any diehard puzzle fan. A true hidden gem (pun intended) of a puzzle game.
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  #39  
Old 02-08-2014, 07:17 PM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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Thank you, y2kmp3, for your nice words. I'm happy that you like our game so much.

The last levels are indeed very hard. Very few people can go beyond level 47.
However, don't be afraid, dear players. If you get stuck and really want to go further, contact me. I'll help you with some hints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
Having now solved all 60 levels of the game (finally), I want to leave a final word of my impression of this wonderful game.

Don't be dissuaded by the seemingly cutesy graphics and the easiness of the tutorial levels, the later levels in this game are truly brilliant and clever (and very, very hard). This is absolutely a gem of a game for any puzzle fan. The solutions for many levels frequently require out-of-the-box thinking and use of multitude of clever tactics.

Despite the fact that the later levels may at first appear to be seemingly "impossible" to complete, they are also immensely satisfying to solve once you see the "trick" to the solutions behind them. Few puzzle games can deliver this level of satisfaction. Moreover, many of these levels can be surprisingly solved in different ways (confirmed with the developer). While these alternative solutions may not be what the developer intended, it also speaks to be cleverness of the level design in this game that allows for different strategies to be used.

A must buy for any diehard puzzle fan. A true hidden gem (pun intended) of a puzzle game.
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  #40  
Old 02-19-2014, 05:21 PM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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Default Free promo codes

No more promo codes available.
If you are interested in our game and not sure you have enough money to buy it, contact me and I'll generate another one for you

Last edited by werewolf; 02-21-2014 at 06:32 AM..
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