iPad Stair Dismount - The Official thread of Love and Fractures

Discussion in 'iPhone and iPad Games' started by Frand, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. monk666

    monk666 Well-Known Member

    Nov 16, 2008
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    #81 monk666, Nov 27, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2009
    Trademarking the word "dismount" is a waste or money. You can't defend it. That is the reason by SciFi channel changed it's name to SyFy channel. "SciFi" is a word that had been used to death with truckloads of prior art, nobody can dream of defending it as a trademark. "SyFy" on the other hand is a new creation and totally legit. That is probably the reason why EA is confident of their lawsuit to strip Tim Langdell of his trademark "Edge".

    If secret exit had trademarked Dizmount (again my lame example), then it is different. Anyone who tries to use this new word Dizmount should just get a nice cease & desist letter from secret exit.

    In spirit, this is the same as the Langdell case. In both cases, a HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE trademark is being enforced albeit in Langdell's case much more viciously for everyone's liking.

    MidianGTX's point about "Asphalt" is very legit. Even Gameloft would not dream of enforcing that on other devs. Seach asphalt on itunes and shitloads of other games comes up.
     
  2. Frand

    Frand Well-Known Member

    Apologies, but no. We like to believe our game has value :)
     
  3. arn

    arn Administrator
    Staff Member Patreon Silver Patreon Gold

    Apr 19, 2008
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    If I create an operating system called "Windows", is that a highly questionable trademark since "Windows" is a common word? Of course not. Apple is also a common word, but not in the context of computers.

    The ridiculousness of the Langdell case involved the fact that it was a 20 year old game that had no chance of confusion and clearly was not an intentional move by Mobigames to profit off of the original game's name. Which is not a claim that can be made in this situation.

    arn
     
  4. Frand

    Frand Well-Known Member

    This thread is turning into an education on the relevance and regulations of trademarks, and there seem to be a lot of false assumptions. If the above claims would be true, only gibberish could be trademarked, and that is clearly not the case.

    Whether or not a trademark can be granted is decided only be the official organization of any particular country or business region based on the application sent to them describing the context and use of said trademark. Once applied and approved, the trademark goes through a period when it's made public in order to be contested. If nobody contests the trademark, it is granted to the applicant.

    Should the trademark be defended or not after it has been granted is up to the trademark holder. But the trademark holder must defend the trademark from violations, else the trademark can be contested to be invalid or expired.
     
  5. monk666

    monk666 Well-Known Member

    Nov 16, 2008
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    That is a very good point arn. There is a clear background difference to whether the trademark holder is suffering any loss of revenue from the infringement. Tim Langdell obviously don't while Secret Exit probably did. Maybe in this context, the defense of the word dismount is more acceptable. But again, you can't blame anyone from taking this the wrong way. All in all, bad PR for Secret Exit, but as they always say, no PR is bad PR.

    Peace.
     
  6. JanB

    JanB Well-Known Member

    Dec 21, 2008
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    Frand if you have a sale tomorrow, or in the next week YOU OWE me a promo code for your next game! Im buying this now!
     
  7. monk666

    monk666 Well-Known Member

    Nov 16, 2008
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    Well, no disrespect, but you guys probably wanna hire someone else to do your external communications. A lot of the replies came across as slightly aloof.

    Again, being granted the trademark doesn't mean you can defend it. EA is very confident of stripping Tim Langdell's trademark and you cannot reason why SciFi channel had to change their name to SyFy before trademarking it. Their representatives said that it is the only way to hold onto the brand.
     
  8. JanB

    JanB Well-Known Member

    Dec 21, 2008
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    NO!!!! Why 3.1 WHY!!!
     
  9. Boardumb

    Boardumb Administrator
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    Apr 14, 2009
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    THE BOSS
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    Well, SciFi can be related to A LOT of things. If they SyFy channel had "SciFi" trademarked in regards to a cable channel, and another cable channel tried to be called something with SciFi in the title, then they would not allow it due to their trademark. I think they changed their name to Syfy (stupid name IMO) to set themselves apart from the millions of things that have to do with science fiction in general. If I googled "SciFi" before, I'd probably get a million things as well as the cable channel. Much like Asphalt. But if you google SyFy, you'll get almost nothing but things related to that particular cable channel. I think that's what they were going for, rather than the inability to enforce a SciFi trademark. Although this is just my opinion, I don't actually know any of the circumstances from why they changed their channel name. But I still think SyFy is stupid :p
    But it's not as cut and dry as that. If EA came out with a street racing game called Asphalt Racing, Gameloft surely would do something about that. If they came out with Burnout: Tearing up the Asphalt, then I'm not sure what Gameloft would be able to do. I don't understand trademark laws that in depth. I'm genuinely curious about a situation like that, but it may come down to the opinion of a judge anyway. All I know is it's just not black and white.

    The only similarity between this and the Edge thing is that a party is actively trying to defend the use of a word that they have trademarked. The difference is that Langdell's entire argument is based on vaporware and bullshit, whereas Secret Exit has a tangible and successful franchise related to their mark. And more importantly, their mark is relavant in this current gaming era. I just think they're being unfairly and prematurely burned at the stake here.
     
  10. Frand

    Frand Well-Known Member

    No offense taken. However I am here to talk about our games, our company, and apparently of the way we do business in a direct and frank manner. Corporate sweet-talking is not our way, and trying to please people who are already holding pitchforks due to hasty assumptions generally leads to things being blown out of proportion.

    I've tried to explain how trademarks work, and this argument still goes on. Claiming a trademark means you must defend it or risk losing it. Whether or not a claim has merit is ultimately decided through legal venues, not on internet forums.
     
  11. Frand

    Frand Well-Known Member

    Stair Dismount uses the new features of the 3.1 firmware for performance reasons. Our engineers know the specifics, I'm unfortunately just the messenger :)
     
  12. mek

    mek Well-Known Member

    so i played it for a bit
    its fun...
    it is a nice lil stress reliever

    i could care less about online leaderboards, i actually despise them..and never use them...that is just me

    achievement tracking would be nice

    more levels obviously

    mini games would be appreciated, which can be either various achievements, and that would be a mini game, or have a long staircase, and the mini game would be to get the longest distance

    maybe optional objects that would affect the dismount, optional that you can turn them on and off

    i dunno...it def. needs something more...but i agree that just adding more stairs would be pretty much the same thing...
     
  13. eggzbacon

    eggzbacon Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2009
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    The Golden State
    Aww man....
     
  14. monk666

    monk666 Well-Known Member

    Nov 16, 2008
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    Nope, the only reason they changed it to SyFy is because they have no hope of defending a SciFi trademark. They would LOVED to trademark SciFi if that is actually enforceable. Who wouldn't!?!?!


    Well, the other ragdoll games didn't call their game Max Dismount or iDismount so the example about EA doing Asphalt Racing is moot. Do a search on Asphalt. Games such as Rally Master, Fastlane, Burning Tires and Moto Racer showed up. Did Gameloft try to get them to remove the keyword Asphalt???

    Like meridianGTX kept pointing out. It is always the weaker product that is trying to get a leg up with sidewinder tricks like these and it isn't good PR for gamers who follow the news. I respect their right to pursue but they should also respect that this case do has some points similar to Tim Langdell's case.

    You're right, it is not all black and white. If Tim Langdell is on the black side, Secret Exit would be somewhere on the gray side and not the white end of things.
     
  15. JanB

    JanB Well-Known Member

    Dec 21, 2008
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    Well you lost a purchase here XD
     
  16. eggzbacon

    eggzbacon Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2009
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    The Golden State
    Yeah :(
    And that the graphics looks really good too!
     
  17. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

    Jun 16, 2009
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    hmm? :rolleyes:

    Secret Exit, I want to apologize for hijacking the topic quite so much. I do feel that you made a strange move and that perhaps it was the wrong thing to do, but I'm certainly not gonna boycott you for it 'cause I appreciate how tough it can be on the App Store and the gaming world in general. Regardless of my personal opinions, it probably wasn't a great idea to stick it all in this topic and if a mod or admin wants to move it all somewhere that's fine by me, I don't want to cast a shadow over your game or put other people off buying it. If everyone else would care to get back to discussing the game itself then this will be my last post on the subject :)
     
  18. Frand

    Frand Well-Known Member

    We're sorry to hear that. But on the positive side, Stair Dismount will be ready and waiting with more fancy features and levels in the future, should you decide to update your device ;)
     
  19. Blueseas25

    Blueseas25 Well-Known Member

    Dec 21, 2008
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    Aka, done for anti-piracy reasons.

    Good move I say.
     
  20. Frand

    Frand Well-Known Member

    Apology accepted and no hard feelings. It's definitely been an interesting time discussing the subject, and definitely a learning experience about the difficulty of communication for us. It's probably good to leave the discussion in place, because at the very least there's plenty of stuff to chew on regarding trademarks for anyone who's interested in the topic.

    About the game... stand in awe of the majestic:
    [​IMG]

    And with this, I'm off to sleep. Good night all, and thank you for the discussion. Despite the differences in opinion, I tip my hat to TA that even heated topics are discussed with courtesy and respect.
     

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