Dear DRM-using companies...

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Soarel, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. Soarel

    Soarel Well-Known Member

    Sep 13, 2012
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    Stop. Stop it now. I do not need an Internet connection for a single player game. Gamevil, always on DRM was fine in Dark Avenger because of the online chat, but Zenonia 5 is only using DRM because you guys are greedy and need to make sure that the big bad users are--god forbid-- not pirating a game that's already free!

    Triniti interactive isn't off the hook either. TinyLegends: Monster Crasher was a fun game with no need to connect to the Internet other than the reasons stated above. Stop the DRM BS now.
     
  2. undeadcow

    undeadcow Well-Known Member

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    #2 undeadcow, Aug 15, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
    Apple and it's App Store is a form of DRM itself. They won't even let you customize software on your own iDevice without jailbreaking. It's sort of ironic for Apple fanboys to complain about DRM. Always connected game requirements are annoying but so is the 95%+ piracy rate for $0.99 games. I am a big fan of the DRM free movement but think Apple is an odd format to have the DRM-free discussion on.
     
  3. Soarel

    Soarel Well-Known Member

    Sep 13, 2012
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    It's always on DRM that irritates me, not the customization crap. I hate in depth customising and how it wastes my time.
     
  4. That is true, DRM and inapps and freemiums at some point will bleed into the console market as it has in the Apple store.
     
  5. Nobunaga

    Nobunaga Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2012
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    #5 Nobunaga, Aug 15, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
    And that'll be the day that a lot of people drop out of gaming. On consoles and mobile devices anyway.
    In response to the anti piracy DRM argument, it's BS. Digital rights/restrictions management in it's current forms impacts legitimate users and not pirates.

    The future legislation regarding DRM is something people should educate themselves in. It WILL affect your future if you have anything to do with digital media, if you're here I assume you have a vested interest in the subject.

    If Companies continue down the path of managing/restricting how I interact with digital media, I will stop paying companies for media. Take what you want from that statement.

    In the case of forcing me to have an online connection to access media I have paid for, unless there is a direct and clear reason for it, I'm not buying.

    Edit: I'd like to see where this 95% piracy rate comes from. That seems incredibly high to me.
     
  6. dancj

    dancj Well-Known Member

    Jan 25, 2011
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    That might be true on Android - but I'm pretty sure it's not on iOS.
     
  7. Nobunaga

    Nobunaga Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2012
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    #7 Nobunaga, Aug 15, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
    I seriously doubt it's true on android. Many companies that have released on both platforms have stated that sales on android have been nearly comparable. Even with a wider user base, had 95% of people been pirating, the reports of income from android would be nowhere near comparable. I'm not arguing against android having higher piracy rates. I just believe they could not be that high.

    Edit: I found the 95%. It's a quote from butterscotch shenanigans about towel fight 2 on android. The same article also said the rate was 1/14 of that on apple devices. I found other sources regarding piracy, the highest was 80%(for Apple devices). Again, that seems very high. Especially given number of jailbroken devices. Seems to be a consensus that the number is around 10% of Apple devices. Maybe if everyone who was jailbroken pirated every App the numbers would be that high. It's also suggested that much of the piracy comes from china where, it seems from what I've read, people will not pay for games. Only IAPs they can not pirate due to DRM "features".
     
  8. Appletini

    Appletini Well-Known Member

    Jan 8, 2011
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    From Lucky Frame, the folks behind the game Gentlemen!:

     
  9. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

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    They seem to be isolated cases, but we've had a few developers here who've said their sales are in the dozens while thousands of players flood the leaderboards. 95% is very high, but for games that don't get much exposure for legitimate customers, people looking for free apps will still take an interest. You could argue that means they weren't going to make the sale anyway, but that's where the high percentages come from.
     
  10. Yeah, for the most part I agree with you.

    Don't like online only cause I play mostly offline, often away from home. Portable games should be played anywhere, unless there is a clearcut reason for it like a mmo.

    All those online games, I just delete, just like alot of the new freemium games after I try them out.
     
  11. undeadcow

    undeadcow Well-Known Member

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    As much as I dislike DRM I think it may be a mistake to under-estimate the role of piracy in mobile gaming. For example, Battle Dungeon was initially pulled because sales were not sufficient to support the server load from so many users, a large majority, that were pirating the game [Source: toucharcade.com/2012/12/03/battle-dungeon-pulled-due-to-piracy/‎Cached. Developers aren't always transparent about piracy rates like Butterscotch Shenanigans so it's hard to clear patterns other than to say often iOS development doesn't seem to pay the bills.

    Even the freemium/IAP push we are seeing now is somewhat related to the issue of users demanding lowest possible price point for mobile games, which while legal devalues games on this format.

    As evil as DRM is, I think it's essential users take a serious role in the obligation to "play fair" and support reasonably priced well made products. In some cases, i.e. 90+% piracy rate, it's hard to blame developers from protecting themselves at the cost of user enjoyment.
     
  12. DannyTheElite

    DannyTheElite Well-Known Member

    Oct 13, 2012
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    Hopefully iOS 7 will be impossible to jailbreak.
     
  13. undeadcow

    undeadcow Well-Known Member

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    I like the ability to jailbreak, I just wish the community at large took developer support more seriously. I think users should be empowered to do what they want, I just wish there were better morals from society.
     
  14. oleander

    oleander Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2013
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    I bought a banana...

    The seller of the banana told me that I should eat it in a certain way and I should not share my banana. I also cannot modify the banana to create a banana split. I cannot use the banana peel as compost.

    DRM - Digital Restriction for Monetization
     
  15. Primoz

    Primoz Well-Known Member

    Aug 14, 2012
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    Are you nuts? Me and around 10% of iOS users would switch to android in a heartbeat.
     
  16. Zeldaniac

    Zeldaniac Well-Known Member

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Amen. Jailbreaking != piracy. Piracy may be popular among jailbreakers, but it's not the only thing we do, and you can pirate games without being jailbroken. (not going to say how, of course)
     
  17. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
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    If you don't understand the difference between buying an object and buying a license to use software, there is much that you need to learn about commercial law. And capitalism.

    I have no problem with jailbreaking per se. But anyone who thinks that they have a "right" to do so is sorely mistaken.
     
  18. Cadenza

    Cadenza Well-Known Member

    Jun 11, 2013
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    Out of curiosity, are there other forms of DRM iOS apps use other than requiring constant internet connection?
     
  19. undeadcow

    undeadcow Well-Known Member

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    #19 undeadcow, Aug 16, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
    Apple's default DRM is not intrusive when working within their App Store ecosystem. However it can restrict user access to content. In practice it might not have people up in arms but there are some disturbing themes related to users not being in actual control of their purchases.

    App Store terms of use refer to users "licensing," not purchasing, games allowing Apple to "terminate the license to the software" and "preclude access to the App and Book Services." By your consent, although not often practiced, Apple remains in control of your account although they do encourage you to back up downloads. Genius for Apps also collects App usage information if you opt to use it. [Source: https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/us/terms.html#APPS.

    App Store is a form of digital rights management; each App Store account has an identification that can be associated with the apps purchased/downloaded. I'm not entirely sure how it works but at one point when there was a problem with Apple's DRM [FairPlay?] server causing a lot of apps to crash [Source: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/5/3140100/apple-app-store-update-glitch-fixed-drm-to-blame.

    Even fair freemium games intend IAP to be a form of restricting user ability to manipulate software (breaking Apple's DRM will still require the user to IAP purchase game rights/content, limited digital rights).

    On iTunes there's FairPlay for video and books. [Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay.
     
  20. Royce

    Royce Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    #20 Royce, Aug 16, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
    A banana is a physical object that you buy and it becomes your property. Apps are digital products that are "licensed, not sold, to you". I'm not saying I like it, or that I agree with DRM, but there's a clear distinction there.

    Edit: I should have read SZ's post before responding.
     

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