Copying, stealing, tracing in iPhone games - WHY?

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Beto_Machado, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. Beto_Machado

    Beto_Machado Well-Known Member

    Slide to Play posted about Arena 9's tracing (Jeff Lyndon tracing ex-SNK artist Falcoon), which was brought to their attention by me. Using mine (and other fans') side-by-side comparisons.

    Here's Slide to Play's feature (which could've been a Touch-Arcade scoop, as i posted it here first, but the comments here were put into moderation):

    http://www.slidetoplay.com/story/art-tracing-alleged-in-arena-9

    It should be noted that the game also copies SVC: Card Fighters in HUD and overall art direction (and porbably gameplay, as it is the same genre), not only artist.

    Why do iPhone devs do such things? Every other week there's a copy of a copy showing up in the Apple Store. Is it the smaller costs, the ease to produce a new game, the speed of release?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. f e a r l e s s

    f e a r l e s s Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2009
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    It's not just the AppStore.
     
  3. Aurora

    Aurora Well-Known Member

    Everything in this world is a copy of something else. It's easier to research on the legal boundaries of something (and stay at the boundary, as most apps in the appstore do) and get tons of people upset but make lots of money nonetheless, than it is to create something original. I can only think of at most 10 apps in the entire store that are truly original.
     
  4. Bmamba

    Bmamba Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2009
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    Wow!! That's really lame!!! And yet they got front page cover on toucharcade
     
  5. BlueSolarSoftware

    BlueSolarSoftware Well-Known Member

    Oct 9, 2009
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    This may not be the fault of the iphone developer. It could be the artist that they hired or contracted. Some iphone devs have paid for artwork that turned out to be copyrighted.

    I'm not an artist, but most artists use source material for inspiration. That means they take elements from several different places, and combine it to create something new. In this case, it's not a big deal since the artist did significant work to create something new.

    Like others have said, almost everything is a copy nowadays. There's almost nothing truly original. Even Disney has copied scenes from their Classics, and used it in their new movies and charged you to see it again. So yes, even the great companies copy from themselves (or from their past).
    http://www.neatorama.com/2010/03/29/disneys-copypaste/
     
  6. nightbeaver

    nightbeaver Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2008
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    i dont see that much wrong with it since since the characters are modified enough to make them unique. copying an art style and copying or tracing basic body shapes isnt that big a deal i used to see it done in comics before and no one really cared. look at the art of rob liefeld and stephen platt. i dont know who copied who but no one really cared everyone just thought they both stunk.
     
  7. Fruho

    Fruho Well-Known Member

    Jan 11, 2010
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    This is not true. An original app introduces a new concept or idea that has not been used before. Just because CoD and NOVA are both FPS's, it doesn't mean one is a clone of another. They each have major characteristics that differentiate them from their competitors and allow them produce a gaming experience that has not been replicate before.
    "clones" are apps that bring absolutely nothing significantly new to the table. For example, Pocket Devil is a clone of Pocket God, as it brings nothing new except some different sprite
    by your definition, LASW is a copy of the settlers. They are both resource management RTS's, right? But no-they each offer a unique gameplay that prevents them from being clones. Like this, there are hundreds of original apps on the store
     
  8. Mondae

    Mondae Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2010
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    Perv, why do you care?
    Ya, but even though that is copying, it is Disney's, and not from another studio.
     
  9. Aurora

    Aurora Well-Known Member

    An original app is an app that does not remind you of something else the moment you see it. When you play Nova, I'm pretty sure you would think "Halo" within 5 seconds, unless of course you've never seen Halo before. When you play Zombie Infection, the first thing that comes to mind is Resident Evil 5 or the Operation Javier bonus mission in Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles. I don't expect apps to be original at all given that pretty much everything original has already been invented. But these kinds of clones by Gameloft just shows that even though the company has so much resources, they didn't put it into actual creativity. Instead they invested it all into flashy graphics, the unnecessary opening 3D cutscene and marketing.
     
  10. Fruho

    Fruho Well-Known Member

    Jan 11, 2010
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    You make some good points. Going with your original apps definition though, I can think of far more than 10 original apps on the iTunes store
     
  11. Aurora

    Aurora Well-Known Member

    What are some of the apps you think are completely original? Here are some off the top of my head:
    - Pocket God
    - Zen Bound
    - Flight Control (or whichever line-drawing game that came out first)
    - Ocarina
    - Plants vs Zombies

    Apps:
    - Redlaser
    - Handwrite Calculator
    - iCarpenter Pro
     
  12. itman

    itman Well-Known Member

    Sep 3, 2009
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    I have no problem with copies such as MC:S or NOVA as they take the same theme and genre but still make everything themselves. This is shocking. Tracing another games artwork.
     
  13. NickFalk

    NickFalk Well-Known Member

    Welcome to planet earth! Been here long? ;)

    Seriously, I agree blatant copying should be shunned but I'm not sure I'd put the mentioned game into the carbon-copy culprits. Heavily inspired for sure, but as others have mentioned the artwork is at least created with a different twist to their inspiration. My guess is that the game-artist is a huge fan of the original artist and that making artwork "like" his has been his goal. Obviously body-shapes and poses is going to make this a whole lot easier if ever so slightly shady.

    The main problem here, the way I see it, is the over-reliance of a single source.
     
  14. BlueSolarSoftware

    BlueSolarSoftware Well-Known Member

    Oct 9, 2009
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    iPhone Developer
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  15. Mr Jack

    Mr Jack Well-Known Member

    Heavily inspired is one thing; but these look like they've been traced. I think that crosses the line, personally, if it is the case.
     
  16. Eduku

    Eduku Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2009
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    I do think that the line between copying/stealing and being 'inspired' by something is very unclear. I'm not really convinced either way, to be honest.

    I'll use an example: The movie 'Ghost in the Shell' had a strong influence on the creation of the first Matrix movie. Shot by shot comparisons of each scene also shows uncanny similarities between the two, but would people call that stealing/copying/plagiarism? I'm not so sure...

    Skip to 1:26 for the shot-by-shot comparisons

     
  17. Beto_Machado

    Beto_Machado Well-Known Member

    The developer is the "artist".

    Tracing is tracing is tracing. The faces are the same, the lips, the poses, the countours. If i took Mario and simply changed his clothes, but everything was the same, Nintendo would destroy me, and for good reason. It's illegal, and ridiculous.

    The fact people are even trying to justify it just means you've never drawn anything in your life and doesn't understand how it works. Some people even think it may be a "coincidence" and that it's possible for two artists to draw something so similar since "it's just a normal pose".

    Come back to planet earth.
     
  18. c0re

    c0re Well-Known Member

    Apr 15, 2009
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    #18 c0re, Jun 14, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010
    Copying is lame, cheap, and dishonorable for the artist (and the devs).

    There's a difference between inspiration (starting from an existing concept, and doing real efforts to change it) and pure copying/tracing (like in the screenshots from the OP) : it's called honesty.
    Well no ... actually the real difference between copying and inspiration is so much about common sense that anybody (even non-artists) can see it.

    Also, real pros use inspiration, not copying.

    Anyway, in any type of work, strict copying will never make anybody progress. So don't worry too much about them, they will never last very long ;)
     
  19. KDR_11k

    KDR_11k Well-Known Member

    Jun 4, 2010
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    Low game prices meaning low budgets meaning no money for real talent.
     
  20. c0re

    c0re Well-Known Member

    Apr 15, 2009
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    Absolutely !

    That's part of why great gamedevs should really consider selling their great games more than 2$ ... The 1$ syndrome will never help quality to ramp up ...
     

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