Should IOS games be more expensive?

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Bronxsta, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. Bronxsta

    Bronxsta Well-Known Member

    #1 Bronxsta, Jan 5, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
    I think this issue was made most apparent to me while reading through the Tiny Thief forums on Steam and really made me think about the state of IOS gaming.

    For those who don't follow PC gaming, Tiny Thief was put on Steam in December for $15. Now if it hadn't been a mobile title, no one would have a problem with that. But it was and people think the game should be free, or $1, $3 or at most $5. Personally I think $10 would have been more reasonable, but that's besides the point.

    I would like to see IOS games be more expensive. This is my personal opinion but I think it's an utter travesty and disservice to the incredible experiences that these hard working developers create that they have to devalue their games to a $1, maybe $2 or $3, to even have a chance at being a success on the App Store. IOS games like Penumbear, which has over 100 levels, unique visuals, innovative gameplay, or Badland, or Starborn Anarkist would easily be priced at $10, maybe even $15 if they were PC games or indies on XBLA or PSN and could be a success on those platforms as well.

    IOS gaming has long since evolved into more than just causal games. We've seen games with hours of content, with deep gameplay, with engaging stories and unique visuals. IOS is as valid a gaming platform as a Vita or PC, just as diverse, and yet still seen as inferior and overwhelmingly causal. It's not uncommon, in fact's it's sadly quite prevalent, to see games worth $1 go free within days or weeks, or people say a game is priced too high at $2 or $3. That's the kind of attitude that IOS gaming and App Store has fostered and continues to nurture due to the ever-growing success of freemium practices

    ---

    Edit: would be cool if some devs would comment, maybe even the TA guys. Quite interested to hear their opinions as well. I really think this is an issue that affects IOS gaming as a whole from the gamers to the developers to the App Store itself, and sadly it's an issue that, expect for the rare exception of recent ports and premium games, continues to go in the wrong direction.
     
  2. DannyTheElite

    DannyTheElite Well-Known Member

    Oct 13, 2012
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    If it means better games then yes. But a higher price market would just result in the complete take over of freemium games.
    For example if there was 2 racing games - one was Real Racing 3 and the other was Racing Sim Pro for £10 the person would get RR3 every time. The market is separating at the moment. We have awful Iap filled casual games at 69p or free and we have the new premium market (Stealth Inc. , XCOM , Ocean horn)
     
  3. Larni

    Larni Well-Known Member

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    I'd be happy to pay for games of Xcom or KOTOR quality.

    The bottom line is that the cost will be just what the market can bear once the freemium models have bedded in and devs have a better idea of what to aim for.
     
  4. slamraman

    slamraman Well-Known Member
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    Aug 27, 2011
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    Yep - I'd love minimum price a fiver and no free games. I'd take more care buying and decent developers would get more of my money for decent games in the long run.
     
  5. DannyTheElite

    DannyTheElite Well-Known Member

    Oct 13, 2012
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    What would happen to the apps already on the market? I mean people have spent lots on those and would lose everything if they were removed.
     
  6. slamraman

    slamraman Well-Known Member
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    I think we can safely say that it isn't going to happen.
     
  7. Panicci

    Panicci Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2012
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    Well i could put my games for $10 no problem, but nobody would buy them :D atleast i think. Hero Siege was my first premium game ever, and its doing pretty well. But yeah, i dont think there are enough quality games to raise the overall bar. Most of the top chart games are terrible and really not worth that much money. There are some gems. One of the reason we made Hero Siege was the fact that we didnt have anything to play on our phones, so we made it and now we can enjoy our own game lol :D (I'm an android player tho). I should buy an iPad so i could enjoy some Oceanhorn. But yeah, free to play needs to die that is one thing.
     
  8. dancj

    dancj Well-Known Member

    Jan 25, 2011
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    This topic comes up quite frequently. Personally I have no complaints with the current status quo.

    Games sell for small amounts, but the successful ones sell in such huge quantities that that still brings in a healthy profit. The idea that $1 is somehow "insulting" just seems silly to me. If that's the price that brings the developers the most profit then that's the right price.
     
  9. Bronxsta

    Bronxsta Well-Known Member

    Panicci's game Hero Siege is $12.99 on PC. On IOS, it's 2.99.
    They're the same game, same content.
     
  10. smegly

    smegly Well-Known Member

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    I think a higher minimum price would harm small developers who are already having trouble trying to get out from under the radar. A lot of very good games have very little quantifiable justification for a high price until the market tells them so.

    Additionally, I don't think it would help any other aspect of the industry.
     
  11. PeteOzzy

    PeteOzzy Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2013
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    As most people here, I've been gaming well before the mobile age so I'm absolutely used to paying up to £45 for a single game. Whilst I'd argue that's too much, certainly if it were a set medium price for all games I definitely think the current price system on iOS is unfortunately insulting to devs.
    The indie scene on PC has it perfect for me - games release around £5 - £20 and will drop to sale at some point for up to 80% off. I think it's really sad that we should expect to ever get someone's hard work for free, as much as I enjoy finding a freebie.

    If I look back through my more successful games and value the time I had with them it would go something like this: 9th Dawn - £10. ICycle - £8. Asphalt 8 - £8. I know it's relative and frankly pretentious to value something like enjoyment but you can see where I'm going with this. I would be perfectly happy to drop a fiver on each game and it would hugely help with free updates and future support; you can't expect a dev to slave away for weeks on a free content update in the hopes that maybe they'll make maybe £20 in boosted sales

    You could argue that people will buy less and be more cautious with their money but honestly - go look on the freebies thread and see how many people are indecisive about buying something that costs nothing, it's frankly shocking. I'm expecting the status quo to remain but I think people could do with at least appreciating how good the consumer has it these days in mobile gaming

    I know this can be a volatile and passionate discussion so please don't think I'm attacking anyone with different views to mine.
     
  12. DannyTheElite

    DannyTheElite Well-Known Member

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    #12 DannyTheElite, Jan 5, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
    But if you wanted to give them more you can just buy iaps . In my opinion higher prices would have to come with better refund systems.
    When you buy a bad cheap game you can say : well, that was rubbish. At least I only spent a buck.
    If that same game cost $10 you would say : that was rubbish, I want a refund now!
    Plus you could spend $200 on games and they might not work with iOS 8/9 etc.
    Here's apple response to a refund on something I got for £2 ($4?)
    We are sorry but apple do not give refunds if an app does not work on iOS 7. (Not a direct quote)
     
  13. PeteOzzy

    PeteOzzy Well-Known Member

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    Personally, no I wouldn't. If the game were faulty then I'd want a refund but I've never once asked for a refund for something I didn't enjoy - food, movies, gigs etc. I get that it's a personal decision though but I'd rather leave a bad review and contact the dev to suggest fixes; nothing gets better by just walking away from it
     
  14. DannyTheElite

    DannyTheElite Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about the scam type apps where they look better than they are
     
  15. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    I think games should be more expensive. Its depressing hearing about devs who have slaved away on a game for months and months, release it for $1.99 and then theres loads of 'impressions ?' - i mean its 2 dollars ! Take a 'risk' !! Or people wait for the price to drop as 2 dollars is 'too expensive'.

    I come from a generation where games were expensive in the 80's, most games on tape were £7.95 ($12) or more and i dont know about other brits but i was on low pocket money (£1 a week !) so despite buying as many games as i could it took a while ! 2 months for a full price game !

    Mobile games have come a long way from 'casual gaming', theres huge epic RPG's, many games which must have taken someone months and months to create the 3d graphics (Ravensword etc) and the game comes out for 6 dollars or so and people moan/criticise/want a sale etc. Its depressing. To me thats why there is SOO much freemium.

    I mean look at the promo code section, i could release 'nothing happens simulator' and i'll get 5 star reviews the second i offer a $10 prize draw. I mean its amazing how many young kids here must have babies here as many of the baby apps seem to have a lot of people enter the competitions !!

    To be fair devs can be blamed 'slightly', people know for many games you wait a week or so and the price drops. I always buy asap as i want the dev to get full money but its a kick in the teeth when they drop the price so quickly.

    But its great hearing about AAA titles selling very well (Star Wars KOTOR) and many others so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

    In the 80's i wasted a lot of pocket money on rubbish games, back then i couldnt take the game back because i didnt like it and ask for a refund. Now you have youtube reviews, forums, not just a few sentences in a magazine with a screenshot to base your purchase on.

    Without sounding like my dad i dont think many people realise how good they've got it with iOS gaming. But its depressing hearing about people waiting for a price drop on a $2 game.
     
  16. C.Hannum

    C.Hannum Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2011
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    I think you're confusing "most revenue possible on app store under current market constraints" with "profitable"; they are only related by happenstance. A lottery system where a couple of dozen games a year go onto to sell a few million copies "justifying" the $0.99 price tag while 20,000 games lose the developer's investment is not a good system. While some of that is "just the breaks" of the app store because the fee to develop for Apple is a whole $99/year and so anybody who can code their way out of a paper bag can sell stuff there, that doesn't make it a good system for us or the devs. You can't look at the fraction of the 1% that are making Angry Birds money and declare the system is functioning well.

    Unless it's a calculated effort to maximize profit through flexible pricing models from a big publisher, we don't see games put together by teams of half a dozen or more experienced professionals who worked full time for 1-2 years, instead we get what 1-4 guys were willing to do on their own dime in their spare time over 6-9 months. And while there are the miracle teams like Foursaken and MikaMobile, these are exceptions.

    Between competition, appeal, etc.., regardless of price, most games have a functionally finite cap of how many copies they can move. There's only so much effort someone can afford to put into a game if they can't expect to sell more than 50K units in the best case scenario if the sticker price is all of $2. When the best case 4 people can expect is to be splitting up $75K, and the expected case even worse, they cannot afford to go all in on such a project.

    So long as the system remains like it currently is, the "best" projects are going to continue to be the ones that best make money in this crazy market of hundreds of thousands of titles sitting "side by side" for less than $5 starting price. So if what you love is $0-$3 throw away titles that you delete after a week or two, perfect. But if what you want is to see a system where huge-by-iOS-standards games like Warhammer Quest don't have to be sold piecemeal (and can afford someone who fluent in grammar to proofread the flavor text ;)), or to see platform first projects on the scale of Nintendo's IPs instead of clearly cut rate imitations, then, no, this is a terrible economic system.
     
  17. DannyTheElite

    DannyTheElite Well-Known Member

    Oct 13, 2012
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    I think the main reason for the "ill only spend a buck" mentality is that anyone can code a terrible game and release it on the App Store. If you don't believe me download the last 5 newest releases in any category and tell me how good they are.
     
  18. Snozberry

    Snozberry Well-Known Member

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    #18 Snozberry, Jan 5, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
    If AppStore games were commonly priced at $10-$15 I don't think they'd get many purchases at all.
    They'd probably make around the same net profit..I think it's actually better for them to sell MORE copies at a lesser price, rather than more copies at a higher price, as word of mouth is basically free marketing, and absolutely invaluable and priceless.

    Since the AppStore is already cheap, it could never change, people would be too stubborn to pay the high prices and would simply jailbreak.
    I'm pretty much broke all the time, yet my guilty little pleasure is spending a few bucks per week on iOS game releases.. I can't afford to spend much more, especially because I almost never actually play the game for long, if not at all.. So I wouldn't be happy spending much more anyway, even if I were a millionaire, because I simply don't get enough gameplay hours out of it. Each paid game I download probably gets played an average of 5 minutes, so 99c for 5 minutes of gameplay really isn't so bad for the developer. I think it's a fair price.. I am very picky and don't often find a game that scratches my itch..but I'm happy to spend a few bucks to take the chance.. If I find something that I enjoy I am happy spending more, and buying all the IAP to support the developer! but 95% of the time I just don't feel compelled to open the app for a second time.. Even if I semi enjoy a game, coming back to it is something that barely occurs to me, probably because I've got thousands of games on my purchased list and don't have the time to play them all, so 5 minutes each is all they get..so I sure as hell wouldn't want to pay $15 up front for a game I quite possibly won't enjoy or even play longer than 5 minutes. I purchased that castle of illusion games and again, have only played it for a few minutes. The quality is high but I just don't feel compelled to return. I feel like level design has taken a huge arrow to to knee on iOS.. I guess on consoles, they actually test each level to ensure it is fun and intuitive for the player, but on iOS it just seems levels are thrown together for the simple fact of being a filler, and being able to say "Over 200 levels!" When most people won't make it over the 50 mark anyway, so I'd really prefer quality over quantity. 100 good levels beats 200 filler levels any day.
    It's more of a cheap throwaway retail therapy gratification.. I'm basically just collecting app icons.
    If my device were jailbroken, I'd lose the addiction, and small gratification high because I don't feel that feeling when downloading free games.


    And that's another thing, we love in the era of freemium, and most games are even paidmium, so I sure as hell don't want to pay $15 for a game with IAP, developers can't help themselves, most games, even premium pricec, are still littered with IAP and even ads, we can thank Ubisoft for this atrocity.

    So personally I don't think a thing should be changed , many indie devs, and even big publishers, struggle to even make back their production costs.. So imagine the struggle when charging such a premium price!

    In my opinion, the AppStore needs to change in others ways, such as giving good games a platform to be seen, instead of being buried under the rubble of new junk every week, and every day actually, tons of gamesalad games enter the AppStore with terribly low standard.. I think the AppStore needs to better their standards in a way, but it couldn't be regulated and some good indie games would probably be overlooked, so I don't recommend that method, but I just wish somehow worthy games could be discovered.. With a whole section dedicated to them...
    And I also think apple should contract a developer team to make worthy high quality games from an official apple account, to be used as an asset to their company.
    Real console quality games, which we unsurprisingly have a huge lack of in the AppStore, but with the few dollar price tag, I'm satisfied with the mini bite sized entertainment we get for our buck, I only wish developers would be more motivated to make sequels and part 2s instead of flurry about to their next game and ditch the other.
    Apple should also loosen their 30% cut! the AppStore is the sole reason I buy apple products! otherwise I'd spend half the price and just get a decent android based phone and tablet, so apple should really look after their main asset, and allow the third party developers more freedom and less restrictions and pay cut in an already struggling market, or else someday we will have no quality I did games, because all of the indie devs would have given up after fail after fail. And instead the AppStore will just be filled with f2p garbage.
     
  19. Bronxsta

    Bronxsta Well-Known Member

    Also started this discussion on NeoGAF:

    Someone's comment on the Tiny Thief price change:
    My response:
    What do you think about this? More IOS games are heading to PC, and more PC games are coming to IOS, so it'll be interesting to see which way the trend goes, and if opinions on the PC side change eventually
     
  20. PeteOzzy

    PeteOzzy Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2013
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    I can't fathom why someone would think a game should be cheaper when they port/release it to iOS. They hardly ever remove features yet they have to code in touch screen UIs, screen optimisations and take a larger hit from Apple's percentage share.
    If you consider iOS to be on equal footing with other platforms and that it should be seriously considered as a gaming machine then I don't see why it should be considered differently in price respect either. Don't get me wrong, I love paying less because I'm a greedy child but I'm aware it's not fair on the developers, big or small.
     

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