Clones flooding the app store

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by TechnoNecro, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. OnlyJoe

    OnlyJoe Well-Known Member

    Sep 29, 2013
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    Cloning does actually work. I have made a few clones in the past, and you get way more download than working hard to make an original game. I don't think it is that cloners don't want to make there own games, or lack the inspiration and ability to come up with new ideas. I think it is simply that making a clone is an easy low risk option, that works. I have spent months making a puzzle game with many levels, only to see it peek at like 100 downloads in a day. Then spend one day making a flappy bird clone and see it get thousands of downloads.

    Plus you do get the situation where the clone is often a better game. Where the person has been smart, and learned from the original game and improved on it. You could argue that 2048 is a better version of threes. But the don't step on the white tile games are a better example, with many different game modes added to the clones. Now is the game really a clone any more? Or is it just the second player to the concept, like how Burger King is a clone of McDonalds? Although to be fair, Burger King didn't call themselves McDonalds+
     
  2. POLYGAMe

    POLYGAMe Well-Known Member

    Jul 3, 2010
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    Game Developer (iOS, Mega Drive, C64)
    Auckland, New Zealand
    It's called Codestorm. There are a bunch of clones out there, the template was called Deep Vortex... as the cloners never have any imagination, most of the clones are unchanged and have Vortex in the name somewhere.
     
  3. amaurote

    amaurote Well-Known Member

    Aug 30, 2011
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    Angry Birds is a clone.
    The great Minecraft is a clone too.
    Sad but true...
    I am sure the original Flappy Bird is a clone too.
     
  4. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    It's a big happy modding community.
    I would say it's interesting to observe.
     
  5. WeirdBeard

    WeirdBeard Member

    Dec 17, 2013
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    Amsterdam
    Let me say first off that there's a big difference between being inspired by and cloning something.

    Some we're inspired by, others were straight up clones. I don't think any of them were very successful. The point is that clones will appear and you can't do anything about it but try to make a better product.

    Excellent point. This is one of our biggest challenges: how do we show people 99 Bricks: Wizard Academy isn't a Tetris clone? Among other things we did the following to convince potential players of the difference:

    - In every screenshot we try to emphasise the bricks that have been placed "badly" and have fallen over.

    - In our trailer and other videos we constantly try to show crumbling towers, bricks tipping and other wizards casting spells to focus on elements unique to our game.

    - When you start the game the first brick you get to place in the tutorial is bound to tip over, immediately showing the effect of physics and why this game isn't like Tetris. Of course you only get to see this when you're already playing.

    What do you think we could do about this?

    This is sad indeed, but also due to the simple nature of the game. It's such an easy game to (re)produce which also allows for straight up cloning to happen so much.
     
  6. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    99 bricks isn't really a clone of tetris in any way other than the brick shapes, it is a clone of "Not Tetris" (look it up if you haven't heard of it) which some extra gameplay elements.
     
  7. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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  8. Touchmint

    Touchmint Well-Known Member

    Oct 19, 2011
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    Phoenix

    Yea it is too bad but its a pretty cool game you made there.
     
  9. POLYGAMe

    POLYGAMe Well-Known Member

    Jul 3, 2010
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    Game Developer (iOS, Mega Drive, C64)
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Cheers :D
     
  10. negitoro

    negitoro Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2011
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    It's really sad when these are games you would lump into 'clones'.

    I think this is indicative of a larger widespread issue that there's very little firm 'line in the sand' drawn to what is acceptably inspired vs. genre iteration vs. derivative product vs. cloning vs. outright theft. Generally, depending how strong you feel about it, the line can be, honestly, at either extreme.

    The fact that people like WeirdBeard need to feel like they need to justify his game is 'not a clone' speaks volumes... but, for me, it's entirely the wrong reasons. It's negatively impacting game development when we have to tiptoe in fear that our game feels too derivative, IMO. It affects decisions you make instead of sticking with what works and improving on it. Innovation maybe great for artistry but it's not always good for the product.

    In the end, as sad as it is, cloners have shown us that the consumers (for pretty much any product) usually care very little for truly unique experiences. They know what they like and they'll seek out more. Cloners do well because they play on human nature rather than a idealized version of what human nature actually should be.

    I think we should be concerned not to be 'anti-clone' as much as figuring out what works and then what works better and be the leader that the clones end up copying.
     
  11. WeirdBeard

    WeirdBeard Member

    Dec 17, 2013
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    #52 WeirdBeard, Jun 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
    The mobile version we've released today is based on the original 99 Bricks flash game we've released in 2008 on Kongregate. You can play it here.

    Of course we're also excited to hear what you think of the mobile version. It can be downloaded in the App Store.
     
  12. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    I am of the I don't mind about cloning so long as they aren't stealing assets. Mechanics can't be copyrighted and it would be a sad world if they were. Generally being first mover in the market sets you apart from the clones anyway if the genre is significant. All of the games become known as "flappy birds" clone which in the end just leads downloads back to the original.

    It is a market forces thing. Cloning a game you like if often a great and inspiring way to learn. I taught a group of 8-10 year olds how to make flappy birds in unity and they all had a great and fun experience. They were all very proud of their games and even in the day they took to make it were already reasonably different with their own crazy stories on a similar mechanic. They also felt different to play. Some were like "omg that is the hard one to play" or "i loved the character in that". They all had positive things to say about the clones which makes me think as older developers (who want to find a place as game developers) you often lose the joy of sharing.

    For me I love to share and educate. I have free tutorials on my youtube channel, I teach, I develop educational apps and I hope I never become that bitter about what other developers are doing and just focus on my own work.
     
  13. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    It wasn't a critique or complaint. It is just ridiculous to compare it to tetris. Not tetris is 2010 according to wiki, but when I think of tetris blocks and physics i think of that. Your game is still a lot different but the basic mechanic of stacking blocks with physics is the same.

    I wouldn't worry about tetris comparisons because they clearly haven't even looked at the screenshots if they believe that.
     
  14. WeirdBeard

    WeirdBeard Member

    Dec 17, 2013
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    Thank you for the kind words. I didn't take it as a complaint but I'm glad to hear you think of it that way :)
     
  15. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Tbh I often make games inspired by others. They normally end up pretty different because I make them because I love the game but wish it had xzy and then feature creep takes over!
     
  16. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    Do we know for sure that most users liked Flappy Bird?
    I'd say the game was tried in large quantities. If the demand was that high, I'd think the best clones would have reached near equal heights in short amounts of time.

    Actually, if you take a look at the usual amount of downloads for each Flappy clone, they're generally fairly low. Only good clones do well. So that's sort of recomforting. Example, Flappy Wing or Flappy Nyan.
     
  17. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    Indeed.
    Now Android is really a large market, and you never know what really happened.
    Yet, even if the key words in the title probably helped, that's still a huge amount of downloads.
    Most Flappy clones don't reach that high. Looks very fishy.
     
  18. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    #59 Pixelosis, Jun 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
    Most peculiar isn't the amount of downloads of the following games (2048 and clones), but their release date:

    May 5th
    May 6th
    May 7th
    May 8th
    May 9th

    Why would someone immediately jump onto cloning 2048 specifically, within 24 or 48 hours for some of the clones (the most successful), while the "original" game has just been published and hasn't even been out long enough to provide any decent reading on its performance? Why the surge of 2048 clones and not, say, breakinfinity clone, or any other odd simple game that gets on top day one but for some reason gets ignored?
     
  19. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    Likewise, you should be able to mimic very closely the art of some other product and get a free pass, then.

    I also have issues with mass cloning. Many of these clones rely on the ads to obtain their cash. Yet there's not an infinity of cash to be had from the ads. The more leechers on it, the less per impression.

    Which, again, encourages the scammy mass downloads to catch as many "real" engaged users as possible.
    You're way too focused on the arts and ideas part but largely disregard the business side.
     

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