Clones flooding the app store

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by TechnoNecro, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. TechnoNecro

    TechnoNecro Member

    Apr 9, 2014
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    Aside from bots flooding the app store clones are another issue.

    Temple run and angry bird clones were fine since some of them tried to add new mechanics, but ever since Flappy Bird and 2048, all we see is copy and pasted clones with a different skin on them, barely any of them try to do anything new. To make it worst the numbers of their clones compared to temple run, angry birds and even candy crush is 4-5 times higher. Minecraft clones are little less and minecraft themed.

    This is a problem mainly in the free section of the app store especially Google play

    Splashy fish literally took the Cheep Cheep from Mario. The creator of splashy fish also made a bunch of flappy bird clones like jumpy jack, but someone decided to literally take Jumpy Jack and instead put him on a surfboard, the game doesn't even work multiple people complain about it and they get ads slapped in their face while trying to play. Which also leads to these clones not actually being functional games but just malware ad traps.

    I'm starting to question the "review" process of app store and google play. It seems nothing but robots are in charge of it, you'd think with all the money they have and the reputations they want to keep they'd hire some actual humans to actually look into the apps.
     
  2. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    There is basically no review process on amazon and pretty much anything goes until someone complains.

    It isn't apples job to police the clones. I agree that I have no problem with clones who offer a little more/different. Afterall lots of games are clones of mechanics.

    While I somewhat agree, I think clones should only be taken down if infringing. I doubt many of the clones get significant downloads.
     
  3. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    It's really up to the store holder to decide of the vision and enforcing adequate rules.
    By hammering on the clones, the message would be clear: make an effort. In the end, "developers" (who have more to do with burger swappers) would be forced to *think* about better and new mechanics.

    It's way too late and the leeway they gave to developers, perhaps by being afraid to be doubletaken by the competitor in the race for more apps, has led all of them to let any crap get inside.

    Summary:
    A flood of crapware that makes shovelware look refined and exquisite in comparison. A bloated market with many hardware manufacturers and for some of them, allowing their OS to be spread to an impressive amount of varying systems with little difference in their software offer...
    Apple, Google and Microsoft are strong, but it might turn into a redux of 1983 for the mobile market.


    Please, make it happen. For the sake of sanity (and money).
     
  4. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    It already takes over a week for Apple to approve so more barriers would increase that.

    Anyway I am all for free markets and the power that gives people to publish. I don't want apple turning into steam green light.

    Just concentrate on your own products than worrying about getting other peoples substandard products out of the app store.
     
  5. M.O.

    M.O. Well-Known Member

    Apr 10, 2012
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    The Stores

    I agree that it is ridiculous what is allowed on the various stores these days. In the big picture all that it does is diminish the perceived quality of whatever brand The store is on. If Apple took a "steam" approach and had a finely curated marketplace that only had quality software I think that everyone would be better off.
    For some reason though it seems that all of these various marketplaces think that more is better, when this is so far from the truth. When I hear that store X has a million apps, my first thought is how many of them are well designed worth while pieces of software and how many are shovelware that somebody churned out during a slow afternoon?
    I think that eventually this will change but more than likely it won't be for awhile.
     
  6. OnlyJoe

    OnlyJoe Well-Known Member

    Sep 29, 2013
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    Auckland
    So if you think of this from apples point of view its a bit different. Apple have to keep two groups of people happy, 1. the customers who download apps, 2. the developers who make the apps. As it currently is, I don't think consumers are really complaining too much yet about the number of clones, maybe they will in the future if this keeps growing, then apple will probably try to do something. Apple already controls their main page, so most consumers are not seeing the number of clones. And in the case of flappy bird it seems that most consumers enjoyed the clones.

    So the one person who is annoyed with the clones are small time indie developers, because their games are getting lost. So what can apple do:
    1. They could try and regulate the store even more. But this is hard, and makes the review process much more subjective. Its not just, does your app meet a set of defined rules. The reviewer is kind of deciding it your app is good or not, and who you get reviewing your game will make a large difference. Which could well make developers feel more annoyed, that actually solving the cloning problem. All the "That game got in, why not mine" comments they would get.

    2. They could push up the margin for entry. Maybe charge a fee for every app listed. This is going to be the more likely step in the future if they are forced to do something about the problem. Doing this forces a developer to decide if their game is going to be profitable before launching it, which will reduce the crap apps from the app store. It is the main reason why you don't get that many crap clones on xbox etc, because the cost for entry is much higher. This has two down sides, it stops creativity because the risk becomes too high. But more importantly, it pushes developers to make games for other platforms first. If the cost went up, everyone would try their game on android first and then make it for iPhone only if it is successful. And as a result, probably pushes people towards buying an android over an iPhone.

    3. The green light idea, like steam has. But in this you need a final reward that the community can give. Which in the case of steam is getting on the list of games on steam. This kind of works because you are actually able to get the game in a different way first, not being on steam doesn't stop you distributing the game, it just makes it slower. So the small group of fans of the game download alpha versions from the developers website, try out the game, and vote the game up on steam. But what happens in a market place where every download is already controlled by the app store? And it actively tries to prevent people from putting alpha versions of games on it? In this case you would have to submit games before they can be voted on, and so we just end up with something similar to what we have now.

    4. Some how increase the avenues for app discovery. Basically the main reason people are annoyed about the number of clones is because they hide good apps. A few years back, a game could be released on the app store and make it to the top just because it was a good game. This is probably because it actually sat in the new section for a good number of days, and would be the only app that showed up when searched. Now it will be in the new section for about 1 day, and in a high position for only a matter of hours. And when searched for, it may be listed in position 10. So basically no one finds it. This means developers need to find other ways to promote their games outside of just using the app store mechanics, which costs money. Or they need to try and game the system in a white hat or black hat way, much like searching for content on google.
    What I am really hoping for is that some of the concepts in youtube might get added to the app store. Things like you can subscribe to a developer if you like their games, and whenever they release a new game it will show up in a feed on your home page. I think we will see more kind of cross promotion networks between developers, where smaller groups with similar level games combine to try and increase their cross promotion power.
     
  7. POLYGAMe

    POLYGAMe Well-Known Member

    Jul 3, 2010
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    Game Developer (iOS, Mega Drive, C64)
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Agree 100%.

    As for the clones everywhere, yeah it sucks. One team made a clone of my latest game. They saw it, liked it, ripped it off and made a template so others can do the same. My game hadn't even had the time to make its mark before it got "stolen". Around a dozen clones of MY IDEA have now appeared in the various App Stores, thanks to this "template" that the developer has been bragging about being really successful. What's worse than making a clone? Making a clone, then on selling it to other "developers".

    I'm seriously considering jumping ship to the likes of GameStick and Ouya... the amount of shovelware in Apple and Google's app stores is insane. It's clear that they really don't give a crap about the quality of anything in there. And to be honest, selling to a larger percentage of a smaller audience is probably more financially viable. Though I'm not a fan of IAP, so Ouya is probably not the right place for me ;)
     
  8. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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  9. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    That's true, excepted for the fact that Greenlight has had way too many crap games validated.
    There even was that one game, what was its name?, which put Valve in a very bad light.
    And now they're going to ditch Greenlight, only to do what? Go the App Store way?
     
  10. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    #11 Pixelosis, Apr 16, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
    I wouldn't go as far as to say they enjoyed them. They looked for a fix, somehow, and ate any crap thrown at them.

    Yes and?
    Probablly coming from the bajillion devs who pollute the market or who think their app is worth something; that is, a pack of smokes at best, in terms of investment worthiness.
    But guess what, it's precisely because games are "free" on internet that we got there. That makes for an environment that calls for warped rules and massive cheating.
    With brick & mortar retails, plus with the machines games had to run on, trying to sell some fastapp would not work that easily. How the hell could have a Flappy Bird ever been sold in a box? Or at $8?

    That fee would be damned salty, because it's already expensive to develop for iOS.
    I don't think xbox has a better catalogue because it's more expensive to produce on it though (diff. than sales). They filtered ideas a lot, even during the nascent XBLA years ago.
    In other words, there was an editorial line and very subjective opinions, and in a way, this lack of liberty precisely guaranteed a certain quality of products.
    In the end, let people moan, they do that a lot. What matters is what they PRODUCE that's worth soemthing, and this forces them to work to get somewhere higher, not lower.
    So let's forget about democracy for a moment, for it is out of place.

    Greenlight goes down precisely because it's also turned into a farce.
    Giving the mob the right to vote is a tragedy. The system needs a tyrant with a vision, not to listen to every single average shmuck mewling about how his app didn't get picked.

    I'm not following you here. How a new good game would be at any advantage against a new clone/crap game, which will also benefit from the extra exposure?
    Now subscription to a dev is nice and cool, but that doesn't solve the problem of discovering the good devs, does it?
     
  11. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    The answer is if you don't like those markets there are plenty of restricted markets to publish in like xbox, play station and wii.
     
  12. POLYGAMe

    POLYGAMe Well-Known Member

    Jul 3, 2010
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    Game Developer (iOS, Mega Drive, C64)
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Sure, if you have the funds for the applicable licenses...
     
  13. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    thats what happens i highly curated environments, but you get benefits from it.


    I think in general consumers are happier with the appstore model than xbox/playstation model. It is really about the consumers. I haven't come across someone being upset at the store because of a bad app (maybe at the developer) but most people will just move on quickly because of no/low cost. Seems to be a community driven store with Apple trying to maximise the downloads (I am sure they don't care where they come from so long as they keep coming).
     
  14. Blackharon

    Blackharon Well-Known Member

    Mar 15, 2010
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    Game Designer for Ludia
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    This is exactly why the store won't change. Right now, the customers find what they're looking for (or something in the neighborhood) and they're happy. If it's buggy, or doesn't grab their attention 10 seconds after the loading screen is dismissed then they'll move onto the next clone.

    Anecdotally, my brother-in-law did exactly this before my eyes. Searching for a flap-a-like he grabbed the first one that appeared in his search, didn't like it, and grabbed another clone until he found one that he liked. In his mind cloning is a FEATURE, not a problem.
     
  15. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    Talking about clones.

    You'll love that one.

    BREAKFINITY

    An ugly clone of effin' BREAKOUT, with its first release the 10th of April, already up the highest places in the store.
    Top 10 or literally 1st in either Action or Arcade in 6 major countries on iPhone.

    I didn't see much marketing around this app to warrant such rankings, so what happened really?

    Could it be that it got promoted like mad?
    Feat. pushes: 133 countries for Best New Games and 78 countries for Great Free Games.

    Breakout with IAP?

    Didn't we already get served with that kind of stuff multiple times?
    Oh, yes, we did.

    http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/if-you-loved-breakout-then-you-ll-love-these-ios-games-1103906
    http://toucharcade.com/2008/07/28/best-iphone-arkanoid-breakout-game-roundup/
    http://radial50.com/blog/iphone-breakout-clones-a-look-at-the-competition

    Let the nth wave of Breakout clones come in hot! :rolleyes:
     
  16. Blackharon

    Blackharon Well-Known Member

    Mar 15, 2010
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    Game Designer for Ludia
    Canada
    The dev has a pretty massive following (for an indie). Also, it's breakout redone slightly so there's an automatic retro appeal.
     
  17. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    Like what? 200K~300K followers spread over six major countries?
    If things haven't changed much, it still takes at least about 50K downloads a day to reach that high, especially that fast.
    So is he some kind of yet untaped Justin Bieber of video games?
    Or is his indie cult limited to some 3000 followers instead?

    Or perhaps there's also an automatic we've seen that sh*t a billion times before since the first Breakout; who gives?
     
  18. Blackharon

    Blackharon Well-Known Member

    Mar 15, 2010
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    Game Designer for Ludia
    Canada
    Just because people don't follow him on twitter doesn't mean people don't play his games. He was pretty influential in creating #1GAM and Lundum dare.

    I may have overestimated his reach, but it seems everywhere I turn I see something he's touched.
     
  19. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    #20 Pixelosis, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    Sorry? You do realize that this can be said about anyone? :)

    Ah? How these obscure events belonging to a subgroup within a rather US-centric section of the overall industry would weigh anywhere close to a blip on the radar?
    Not to judge him, I don't know him, but he really doesn't seem to have left much of a mark though.

    I don't know where you use to turn. :p
    The vast majority of the activity on his account is strictly about him posting alone, mostly about goats.

    I have also not seen any trace of a beta of his game, yet he already had 410 reviews the 9th of April, that is, officially one day before the initial release.
    Have I missed something?

    Besides, his game gets a rather average App Store score overall, which shouldn't help at all. There's as many one stared reviews as there are five stared ones. This is quite impressive.
    The controls in the first version were also displeasing several players.
    Guy gets a couple reviews from websites (148 and iMacFeed are one and the same, TA), some of them not particularly stellar either and clearly revealing a total lack of interest from readers, considering the glaring absence of comments in the appropriate sections of said reviews.
    Globally, the app seems to be headed for an unimpressive average on metacritic score.

    Yet, here it is, up there.
    What's the secret sauce? Can't be the icon, it's quite ugly.
    Some iBlowjob perhaps? Or is it all about the goats?
    Can i Has it to?
     

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