Developer/Publisher Split

[Zenout]

Originally Posted by mr.Ugly

if you play poker with your liveelyhood then thats your fault.. if it ruins you, there is only one to blame and its surely not someone else. when i read such stuff i shake my head in disbelieve.. and ask myself why oh why..

If a publisher had time to acknowledge my efforts / then I would be happy to not waste time going in this alone. As it is publishers would rather ignore emails so I don't even bother asking. I've used this time to make games but have not been able to communicate effectively, that's where the waste is: seems pompous to me.

My point was that no publisher deserves half of the revenue when they haven't been involved in development at all. So why would anyone give 50% to someone's greedy 'boss' because they think they can just take advantage like that. It's daylight robbery mugging of developers for an equal split.

It saddens me too that next year will be finding the time I've had to make updates, while returning to the dayjob just as I'm getting somewhere.

[mr.Ugly]

Originally Posted by Zenout

If a publisher had time to acknowledge my efforts / then I would be happy to not waste time going in this alone. As it is publishers would rather ignore emails so I don't even bother asking. I've used this time to make games but have not been able to communicate effectively, that's where the waste is: seems pompous to me.

acknowledge your efforts? who cares about the efford it took to create product x or y.. the result matter nothing less.. if a customers buys a videogame for 60$ he does not ask how much it cost to develope..

also the mobile market out there does not care if you spend a week or a year on making mobile game z. they care about the result and thats where anyone need to shine to get some heads turning your way.

you must realize that everyone effort are meaningless if the outcome is something that the market is most likely not interested in. One can sink tremendous amounts of labor into a project and it can still be crap.
again the resulting product counts not the effort that went into it.

My point was that no publisher deserves half of the revenue when they haven't been involved in development at all. So why would anyone give 50% to someone's greedy 'boss' because they think they can just take advantage like that. It's daylight robbery mugging of developers for an equal split.

greedy boss.. lol.. greedy developer, greedy customers.. all non sense..

any publisher offers you something in return for their shares. it can be a big deal it can be a small thing like just their brand slapped onto your game..

but thats up to the developer to negotiate.. advance payments, pr campaigns, developement help etc. etc.

no one robs a developer since its his free choice to sign a contract or not.
if he is not fine with it don't sign it.. contact someone else, self publish or get out..

indie or not this is a business not kindergarden, most devs are here for a profit as are publishers.. calling anyone greedy is childish at best..

It saddens me too that next year will be finding the time I've had to make updates, while returning to the dayjob just as I'm getting somewhere.

so whats wrong about actually earning money (in a dayjob) saving up some cash, hiring a game designer an artist and whatever else you need to get your games to a level that get some heads turning your way?

who on earth forces you to go bankrupt being an indie if not you yourself alone.

again why oh why..

if you are a decent programmer become a freelancer.. do projects , earn some money .. get a steady income and on your feet and then make some time for your own projects.. there is no miracle to it.. i know tons of people who do it that way..

this does not mean your own projects need to make you any money, but this way your own projects don't bankrupt you.. i mean sometimes it feels to me (from purely reading between the lines) that you drive directly at a wall.. can see the wall.. know that you will hit the wall.. but still don't want to push the breaks because you think you are supposed to drive down this road.. except that there are endless others avaiable you could take if you want to..



cheers pal

[Zenout]

Well I didn't intend to go off topic. Negotiating a deal is the thing which the OP claims his boss won't budge on, no matter what.

I care about effort involved during production - Hand crafting many engines - I think players appreciate it too.

Gah I give up trying to do everything the 'right' way. The alternative-routes are in my rear-view mirror

[Moonjump]

Originally Posted by mr.Ugly

acknowledge your efforts? who cares about the efford it took to create product x or y.. the result matter nothing less.. if a customers buys a videogame for 60$ he does not ask how much it cost to develope..

I think he was referring to the fact that many publishers will ignore the initial contact by email, despite requesting on their website that developers contact them about their games.

It is very hard to negotiate with publishers if they do not acknowledge your first contact.

I am currently pushing 2 games to publishers. Most of the replies have come from top-end publishers, although many of them involved personal contacts. That is fine for one of my games. It is what they want and I am getting a lot of interest. But the other is a small scale shoot-em-up. The replies from the large publishers have been that it is interesting, but not the type of game they want. The smaller publishers who might like this type of game just don't seem to be bothered replying to emails.

You are talking a lot of sense in this thread mr.Ugly. The important thing is would you earn more money using a publisher or self-publishing? I think an experienced publisher will almost always be the better option. Especially as having someone else doing the publishing leaves more time for the developer to do what they do best: make games.

But a publisher without a track record has got to sell themselves to developers before they can sell games to the public. A publisher can only expect to get a large percentage when they can demonstrate that they will earn the developer significantly more than they would doing it themselves. Chillingo were asking for smaller percentages when they started, and that worked out well for them.

[mr.Ugly]

Originally Posted by Moonjump

I think he was referring to the fact that many publishers will ignore the initial contact by email, despite requesting on their website that developers contact them about their games.

It is very hard to negotiate with publishers if they do not acknowledge your first contact.

well if its about first contact its the same fight for attention. they get swamped with requests on a daily base so your pitch must be good to turn some heads..

so zen if people on this board show lack of interest the same can happen with anyone else, may it be press, publishers or the app store crowd.

your product needs to shine to get noticed.. or you have a track record that speaks to yourself.. soo? shine !

I am currently pushing 2 games to publishers. Most of the replies have come from top-end publishers, although many of them involved personal contacts. That is fine for one of my games. It is what they want and I am getting a lot of interest. But the other is a small scale shoot-em-up. The replies from the large publishers have been that it is interesting, but not the type of game they want. The smaller publishers who might like this type of game just don't seem to be bothered replying to emails.

well the size of the publisher is a factor of course, if you have a department who takes care of incoming publishing requests or if your a team of 3 doing everything things can be quite different.

You are talking a lot of sense in this thread mr.Ugly. The important thing is would you earn more money using a publisher or self-publishing? I think an experienced publisher will almost always be the better option. Especially as having someone else doing the publishing leaves more time for the developer to do what they do best: make games.

most of us where never in the position to need to sell a product.. so getting help in that department at least once can be an interesting journey.

the question which way earns more money cant be really be answered, but the chances will be higher with a high profile publisher of course and can open doors you would never be able to unlock, like direct contact to apple etc.

But a publisher without a track record has got to sell themselves to developers before they can sell games to the public. A publisher can only expect to get a large percentage when they can demonstrate that they will earn the developer significantly more than they would doing it themselves. Chillingo were asking for smaller percentages when they started, and that worked out well for them.

fully agree, everyone needs to negotiate to terms he finds fair. Every Publishers capabilites are different, as are their offers, so anyone interested in getting published should contact as much publisher and check his options carefully.

Publishers are not evil, you find a bunch of good ones being active on this very forum.

[Zenout]

Originally Posted by mr.Ugly

so zen if people on this board show lack of interest the same can happen with anyone else, may it be press, publishers or the app store crowd.

your product needs to shine to get noticed..

Shine! This sh1t already shines

I've been polishing up the graphics, too
Attic_Eyes_1_(Zenout).png

Publishers are just scared of Attic Eyes
Attic_Eyes_2_(Zenout).png

[MarkFromBitmenStudios]

Originally Posted by Zenout

Publishers are just scared of Attic Eyes

I can understand why. Scare-Eye balloons are used to scare off birds and those eyeballs sure are scary. Ontop of it, it's hard to understand what the game will be like.

Anyway, getting publisher attention and then negotiating splits are different topics.

If you can't get the attention of a publisher then probably there's something wrong with either your pitching or your game.

If you can't get a good split then there's something wrong with your negotiation skills or your game.

In both cases, there may be a potentially huge difference in how you see your own game and how others do, as already pointed out above.

[Zenout]

I've only recently gone down the 'eye' route. Must be the other stuff then

Also, it's hardly scary relative to the children's cartoons. Birds get conditioned to scare-crows easily, kids love this theme - and will more so soon (time of year).


edit: Rating of 9+ (Mild horror theme) seems appropriate.

[FlowStudioGames]

I would recommend to contact developers who already have games published with a company you are considering. Ask them about publisher's involvement, advices, strategy, investments and the general relationship. This is very often the key thing of the business, it is all about people.