Signing in with Facebook

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Jim_DarkTonic, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. Coldar

    Coldar Well-Known Member

    Dec 26, 2008
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    I'd be willing to buy a premium game at a premium price. Question is can you make one good enough to forgo the Facebook integration? We then wouldn't need Facebook integration to promote the game to get more sales, right? I honestly don't believe that last sentence I just wrote as I believe there will still be a push for Facebook integration no matter how expensive the game would become. All I suggest is leave it optional and at least you'll still get a sale.
     
  2. tielore

    tielore Well-Known Member

    It's sad, but this is still wrong. It's not a question of your willingness to buy the game, so much as your ability to find the game. The crazy volume of apps out there, make it impossible for even the coolest game on the planet to be found without marketing. I'm not saying I make the coolest games on the planet, but I have made games that my fans think were cooler than the popular ones of the same genre, yet I only tend to get a trickle of sales. Despite having constant 5-star raving fans. I failed to include ample social marketing in my last game. Sure, I have a button hidden in the options screen you can click, and I've got some followers from that, but when it's hidden, it's practically useless. You can only get so far with word of mouth and being found organically via searches. You have to have marketing, and social marketing if done correctly, can be free for the Developer ( and free is great for us Indie Devs). But there's definitely gonna be a line that you shouldn't cross otherwise it becomes detrimental to the game because it pisses off the users.

    My plan would always be to leave it optional.
    I would love to be able to put in social marketing options as incentives to my players to get extra stuff in the game. But my fear is, that since my game is a premium game that I will charge for, the users won't see it as "extra stuff" but rather that they should get everything up front since they paid for the app.
    My game is a point-and-click puzzle adventure. I have tools in the game that will give hints that actually show you exactly where to click, or will solve a puzzle for you automatically. But to keep these from being too powerful and having users blow through the game and then complain it was too easy, I've got them on timers so they can only be used once a day or once every x minutes. I was planning on giving the player the option to get an instant recharge on these tools for doing some social marketing for me. The instant recharge was never intended to be part of the game, but my fear is that once I put it in, I'll get flamed for not giving it to them free without requiring the tweet or Facebook post or whatever. It's just such a difficult thing for us devs to figure out how to do properly, while still providing a decent level of potential free marketing, without pissing off the user base. Tough stuff.
     
  3. iPadisGreat

    iPadisGreat Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2012
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    Reading through that post gives me the impression that you are uninterested in making a game that players will enjoy playing and will have an enjoyable time with...
     
  4. kmacleod

    kmacleod Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    Jul 1, 2009
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    Artist / Writer / Designer
    California
    Speaking as a player and a website owner / game reviewer, I wouldn't want to pay money for that game, and that part of it would noticeably factor negatively in a review. It's just sleazy. We are your CUSTOMERS, not advertisers. Pay people to advertise for you, and charge gamers to play the game. Don't try to combine those roles.

    Stick Facebook and Twitter buttons in the settings menu. Allow people to sign in if they chose to, don't bribe them. Anything more than that is insulting to the people who paid you.

    If you really, absolutely want to push it to the very limit of good taste, pop up with a message when a player has played the game for a long time. Speak as a human, briefly talk about your status as an indie developer, and how a rating and a like on Facebook or a follow on Twitter can mean a lot. Then never show the dialog again, no matter what they choose. Be a human, and treat your customers like humans.

    I'm not saying this is an easy business - it isn't, especially for indie developers. But I am telling you how your proposed solution would make me feel, as a potential customer.
     
  5. tielore

    tielore Well-Known Member

    That's my biggest fear is that it'll seem sleazy like you said.
    So just to be clear, you're saying you'd rather wait until the hint or autoSolve bar fills up (which could take 30 minutes or 24 hrs) instead of even being presented with the option to get them instantly recharged for free.

    I purposely have the wait time on those things, so the player can't use them as a crutch. But yet, still be available for those really tough ones they can't figure out. If I don't do the incentives for the instant recharges, then there won't even be the option of an instant recharge.

    I wouldn't put it in your face. You don't have to do it to enjoy my game. The only time you would see it is if you tried to use one of these tools while it was still charging. Then there would be a popup saying it has x minutes until charged, with an "OK" button and a "Get a Free Charge" button. Ok sends them back to the game, and the free option goes to a screen explaining some ways to get a free charge-up, by sending a tweet, or posting to FB, or inviting a friend via FB.

    This is the best advice, the be human route. I'll try to implement something like this, but I'm still struggling with offering the incentives options too.

    Unfortunately traditional advertising just does NOT work for a premium game at the $.99-$2.99 range. No matter how you do it, or how you crunch the numbers it still costs between $6-20 for every sale, so you lose money.
    The freemium model with the in-game currency to speed up wait times is the current model that actually does make money. They make on average $6 for every free download, so they can afford to pay the higher advertising, plus they're big companies who can buy advertising in bulk and get it even cheaper. And I HATE this model. I hate downloading a free game, just to realize it will cost a lot of money in the long run to play the game without all the waiting. I think it's a total rip off and I've been trying super hard to hold out on even thinking about going that route with future games. I think they suck. I'd rather pay $5 for premium game all day long. But the sad truth is that the average user wouldn't, they want free or $.99.
     
  6. kmacleod

    kmacleod Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    Jul 1, 2009
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    Artist / Writer / Designer
    California
    Don't look at what the big companies are doing and say "wow, I guess people will put up with THAT crap" - they won't. Not from an indie developer. People will see you as a person, and if you try to bribe them to be free advertising, they won't like the person they see.

    The fact that you're a person is an asset, though - definitely not something to ignore. Engage the community, blog, tweet, implement feature requests (when reasonable - thats a slippery slope). You can't do the insidious stuff that the major companies do. But the best advice I can give is to engage people. Make an awesome game, and let people feel like they're a part of that process, so they'll want to tell their friends about it Build an honest fan base. The quickest way to alienate an honest fan base is trying to build a fake one.

    If you know, in your heart, that you're implementing a feature for yourself and not for your customers, you need to explain to your customers why that needs to be there. Be honest, don't get in their face about it, and let people who don't want to deal with it opt out immediately.

    I'm not saying I have an easy answer - it's hard being an indie developer - but I am saying that this will backfire. You want people telling their friends about your game organically, because it's awesome. If you bribe them into doing it, they won't think it's awesome, and they won't tell their friends organically.
     
  7. Jorlen

    Jorlen Well-Known Member

    Jan 7, 2009
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    ANY facebook integration for me IS a deterrent of purchasing the app to begin with.

    Those app that list "Like us on facebook for X amount of in-game currency" are in the same boat, IMO.

    I might be in the minority but you asked, so I wanted to be honest. Is it helpful? Yes, it is, because you must know that some of us hate this. Do I have any advice on what to do otherwise? Reddit, forums, promo codes, etc.
     
  8. tielore

    tielore Well-Known Member

    This is a real eye opener for me.

    I personally don't like to post to FB from any game I'm playing. But when I see a game offer it, it doesn't bother me at all that they do. I just don't chose to participate in it.

    I also don't care if there's a FB button after levels and stuff. As long as I can ignore it and move seamlessly through the game.

    The only FB thing that drives me nuts is if they actually do POPUPS asking if you want to post to FB, that force you to close them before moving on. And even if they only did one of those, it wouldn't bug me, but there are games that do it after every freaking level. Those I hate.

    So, it's a bit shocking to hear all the negative attitude against even having the option of it in the game, or incentives for it.

    I'll definitely take this to heart.
     
  9. Eric_DarkTonic

    Eric_DarkTonic Well-Known Member

    Nov 2, 2012
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    Creative Director at Dark Tonic
    NE Pennsylvania, USA
    Same here! Surprised, and listening carefully.

    I personally like FB connected games as long as they don't nag you as tielore said.

    I don't play FB connected in every mobile game I play that has the option, but I definitely enjoyed the friend competition in Bejeweled Blitz and I liked the way it was integrated in Candy Crush (although the paywall stopped me playing pretty early on).

    Since GameCenter is an easy option, that's great for leaderboards, which is still something cool. What we want to do, though, is let you see where your friends are on a game map, which is not something we can do with GameCenter alone, unfortunately.

    What if we did something where a FB button wasn't shown at all until you've been playing a little while (obviously enjoying the game) and then on the map screen, where you see your game progress, we simply offer "see where your friends are on the map by connecting to FB" or "never show this again" and if you select no, the button never reappears?

    Seems legit?

    How about if we name the "no" button "FB should die in a fire!"?
     
  10. Alicuza

    Alicuza New Member

    Feb 13, 2014
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    Made an account just to answer to this:

    Facebook integration doesn't bother me, as long as it is subtle, like you suggested. Hell, you can even put more "intrusive" options into the settings for people who enjoy the social aspect of games.

    Never make the integration compulsory or design the layout such that I might accidentally press the share button or whatever. I hate it when friends on FB spam me with their achievements, and I immediately block them and assume that the game is utter garbage.
     
  11. mr_bez

    mr_bez Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2012
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    This spunds like a reasonable use - it'a genuine social feature so it makes sense to link to a social network. Personally, I don't think I'd use it, but it wouldn't bother me.
     
  12. Panda Rascal

    Panda Rascal Active Member

    Feb 13, 2014
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    #52 Panda Rascal, Feb 13, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
    Personally, I would not link my fb account to a game I'm playing, even more so now, that upon linking fb to a game, they no longer ask you if you allow them to post without your permission. It's kinda annoying to see feeds that ask for something because of a game.
     
  13. Eric_DarkTonic

    Eric_DarkTonic Well-Known Member

    Nov 2, 2012
    45
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    Creative Director at Dark Tonic
    NE Pennsylvania, USA
    Thanks for signing up just to contribute here!

    And thanks everyone for your comments so far. We're carefully redesigning the integration now to make sure we don't get FB rage deleted, and also making sure the social integration we do offer is a useful/fun benefit to the players that choose to use it, and not a cheap bribe.
     
  14. Snovi

    Snovi Member

    Mar 11, 2014
    8
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    Chicago
    Great thread. I joined just to respond. My game has a "post score to FB" button after every level - never knew how annoying I was being :).

    Was thinking of adding Twitter for the next release, now I think I'll be hiding all social networking.
     

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