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  #11  
Old 12-11-2013, 03:13 AM
sepych sepych is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
How far did you get in the game? For the later puzzles (world 3 and higher), how many moves do you need to solve?

I, too, use the same strategy of imagining the "next to last" step. However, for at least one puzzle, I have been able to find more than one working configuration for this "next to last" step. Consequently, this means that some of the puzzles can have more than one distinct solution paths.

I am sitting on the fence on whether or not I want to continue tackling this game to the end. Like Sokoban and other variants, this is the type of puzzle games in which a puzzle is easy to make but difficult to solve. This is because one can easily start out with a solved configuration and then just work backward to come up with the initial configuration. I wonder if this is what the authors of this game did (to some extent). Doing so will NOT give you the optimal solution, as it may be possible that the initial configuration can be solved faster. This explains why for some levels I was able to beat the level with less than half of the allowed moves (as you pointed out, I also discovered that the minimum intended number of moves is half of the allowed moves for a star).
I'm one of the authors of this game. Some backgrounds how levels were done: we have code that generates levels depending on difficulty and some options. So for puzzle mode levels we just searched and picked up levels with progressive difficulty. When we did found all the levels, we solved them and believe me or not it took 4 weeks for me to solve all the levels with minimal amount of moves.

How far are you now in the game?

All I can say that game requires a lot of practice to master it, so don't give up just yet
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:35 AM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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Fantastic to hear from the game's creator directly!

Boy, this is embarrassing... I misread your previous post and mistakenly thought that you are one of the players. Hence, the rambling...

I am only into the second world. Since I played Trainyard, I have always used Trainyard as a sort of measuring stick against which I compare other logic puzzle games. As you know, the later puzzles in Trainyard are notoriously difficult. With your game, I am feeling that I might be hitting that wall of difficulty soon even in the second world. I still have yet to encounter a puzzle that I can't get pass (many came pretty close), and I was able to solve all of them with half or less than half of the allowed moves. But I can't help to feel that I am barely staying afloat on this one...

In this sense, I am glad to learn from you that even the game's creator took 4 whole weeks to solve all of the game's puzzles. I am encountering levels now whereby the minimum number of moves is above 10. To me, such puzzles are TOO long. The puzzles should be clever but short.

Can you tell me, for the later levels, what is the highest "minimum number of moves" needed to solve?



Quote:
Originally Posted by sepych View Post
I'm one of the authors of this game. Some backgrounds how levels were done: we have code that generates levels depending on difficulty and some options. So for puzzle mode levels we just searched and picked up levels with progressive difficulty. When we did found all the levels, we solved them and believe me or not it took 4 weeks for me to solve all the levels with minimal amount of moves.

How far are you now in the game?

All I can say that game requires a lot of practice to master it, so don't give up just yet
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2013, 02:34 PM
sepych sepych is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
Can you tell me, for the later levels, what is the highest "minimum number of moves" needed to solve?
In the last pack number moves varies from 10 to 20, but these levels are so difficult that it could take hour to solve them. Last level is most difficult one that I did found and I think even my co-worker haven't found solution to it yet
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2013, 04:36 PM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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Yikes! You are scaring the players.

When you say 10 to 20, do you mean the MINIMUM NUMBER of moves to solve the level or the ALLOWED NUMBER of moves? I found, in my experience, once the MINIMUM NUMBER is above 8-10 moves, the puzzle becomes very difficult to locate the correct sequence.

I am wondering if you can program an algorithm to "systematically check" all possible moves given a certain number. This way, you can be certain that you truly have hit the minimum number of moves needed to solve a level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sepych View Post
In the last pack number moves varies from 10 to 20, but these levels are so difficult that it could take hour to solve them. Last level is most difficult one that I did found and I think even my co-worker haven't found solution to it yet
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2013, 09:08 PM
Bronxsta Bronxsta is online now
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Hi, just got your game. Saw it on TIGForums and the trailer was great.
Love the aesthetic and style but I can't wrap my head around the puzzle mechanic yet

Take this early level:


Why is the top rectangle affected by the other shapes? Why can't I just expand it? What restricts a shape from being expanded or not?

Also it would be nice to be able to see how many stars I have on a level from the level select screen. So I know which I have to replay when I go back to them later

But overall great game, challenging, and nice minimal style
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  #16  
Old 12-14-2013, 09:41 AM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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I agree, Bronxsta.

There are some very clever mechanics going on in this game. The problem is that these mechanics are not well explained at all in the game, some of which cannot be deduced clearly just from observation. One example is the rule by which some pieces shrink or expand when there are CLEARLY multiple ways that these can be done. The game always chooses the same way, so there must be some hidden rules that the game is adhering to but that are entirely opaque to the player.

My feeling on the time trial as a star reward is different from that of yours. Because you can just instantly replay a level, this challenge is completely useless because you can always re-execute the moves extremely fast to beat the clock once you memorize them. The challenge does not add value to what is a purely "skilled" game.

The opaqueness needs to be addressed, because I don't think it should be part of the challenge of this game. Rather, the puzzles themselves should be the focus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxsta View Post
Hi, just got your game. Saw it on TIGForums and the trailer was great.
Love the aesthetic and style but I can't wrap my head around the puzzle mechanic yet

Take this early level:


Why is the top rectangle affected by the other shapes? Why can't I just expand it? What restricts a shape from being expanded or not?

Also it would be nice to be able to see how many stars I have on a level from the level select screen. So I know which I have to replay when I go back to them later

But overall great game, challenging, and nice minimal style

Last edited by y2kmp3; 12-14-2013 at 09:44 AM..
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  #17  
Old 12-14-2013, 10:18 AM
Duke12 Duke12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxsta View Post
Hi, just got your game. Saw it on TIGForums and the trailer was great.
Love the aesthetic and style but I can't wrap my head around the puzzle mechanic yet

Take this early level:


Why is the top rectangle affected by the other shapes? Why can't I just expand it? What restricts a shape from being expanded or not?

Also it would be nice to be able to see how many stars I have on a level from the level select screen. So I know which I have to replay when I go back to them later

But overall great game, challenging, and nice minimal style
Unless im mistaken when you triple star a level it gets golden borders on level selection
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  #18  
Old 12-15-2013, 10:53 AM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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UPDATE: Absolutely amazing puzzle game. Deserves much more attention that it is currently on TA. Must buy!

+1

But as I also said in my previous post, the time trial achievement is largely meaningless since you can just repeat a level immediately after you solved it and be quick enough to score the achievement. This is unless you stumbled upon the solution and cannot remember how to got there (which actually happens quite frequently for me, forcing me to work backward to rediscover the solution).

The game gets extremely hard extremely fast. I can't recall another "casual" pure logic puzzle games in recent years in which the difficulty ramps up so quickly.

How far are you along? How many levels were you able to solve with LESS THAN HALF of the allowed moves, meaning that you were able to beat the developer's own solutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke12 View Post
Unless im mistaken when you triple star a level it gets golden borders on level selection

Last edited by y2kmp3; 12-21-2013 at 11:02 AM..
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2014, 04:43 PM
GaZ-OiD GaZ-OiD is offline
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Just bought and enjoying, I can tell this is going to get hard!!

The main puzzle screen should have an optional timer on screen AND a move counter/move target number on screen as well

Any chance in an update?

Edit, just found asked for info in pause menu? Why is it there? I pause every new level to find the goals, just have relevant info on game screen

Last edited by GaZ-OiD; 02-09-2014 at 04:52 PM..
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  #20  
Old 03-05-2014, 02:22 PM
GaZ-OiD GaZ-OiD is offline
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Been playing other stuff but back to this now, it's a great game, I have only just finished the intro pack but triple starred the lot and now looking forward to moving on.

Highly recommended but it won't be everyone's cup of tea but it is mine.

I would like to know if there are any other plans or expansions for this title planned for the future?

Gaz
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