Retro Racing Mr Qwak Limited From the same developer behind the classic Amiga racers, Nitro (Psygnosis) and ATR (Team17). Choose your car, then skid… TouchArcade Rating: $1.99 Buy Now Watch Media DetailsFrom the same developer behind the classic Amiga racers, Nitro (Psygnosis) and ATR (Team17). Choose your car, then skid, slide, spin and drive around the track at break neck speed, collecting power-ups as you go. Master the perfect racing line, avoid other cars and cones, and speed your way to victory in this adrenaline pumping top-down racer for iPhone, iPod touch and iPad. Just how fast can you go? FEATURES Universal App. Awesome Gameplay. Silky Smooth 60FPS Action. Two Player Split-Screen Mode. Information Seller:Mr Qwak Limited Genre:Arcade, Racing Release:Feb 23, 2012 Updated:Sep 06, 2019 Version:1.5.1 Size:10.0 MB TouchArcade Rating: User Rating: (8) Your Rating:unrated Compatibility:HD Universal Habakuk Well-Known Member Dec 11, 2008 4,779 9 38 Vienna, Austria http://rossau.wordpress.com #2 Habakuk, Aug 30, 2012 Don't support this dev! He promised in Feb. 2012 that the IAPs will be obtainable through playing the game ("unlockable by skill") and not only for real money in a next update. But it never happened. Quote in the original thread: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2152786&postcount=31 Gabrien's answer: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2244299&postcount=122 Not recommended. dylanmannen Well-Known Member Aug 19, 2011 107 0 0 sweden #3 dylanmannen, Aug 30, 2012 Too bad about the iap :/ awp69 Well-Known Member Oct 30, 2009 8,249 0 36 Greenville, SC #4 awp69, Aug 30, 2012 That sucks. Had thought about trying this, but can't stand when IAPs are implemented in a way that it affects leaderboards. If they're unlockable through game play, that's fine. If they're just cosmetic, that's also fine. But even if it is just another $.99, it makes the game imbalanced. I'd rather have had them charge $1.99 for the game than do this kind of crap. Mr Qwak Well-Known Member May 23, 2010 179 0 16 #5 Mr Qwak, Aug 30, 2012 Let's dig a little deeper shall we, rather than just cherry picking one or two posts; I think it only fair people read that thread from say here: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=123441&page=12 To get a more accurate idea of what went on. Greyskull Well-Known Member Dec 13, 2009 5,588 1 38 Photographer/Social Sciences adjunct/sweet sweet l Fort Lauderdale #6 Greyskull, Aug 30, 2012 Last edited: Aug 30, 2012 Thanks Habakuk. Unfortunatly the dev alread added a notch to his DL count thanks the me. I'll delete it before launching though, if that helps I was considering going into the Eternal Warriors thread to plead with TA members to boycott Glu (thanks Glu for pulling the Glyder series, Beat It! and dungeon Solitaire, along with buying once storied studios ), but decided it would be best to avoid starting a potential flamewar. awp69 Well-Known Member Oct 30, 2009 8,249 0 36 Greenville, SC #7 awp69, Aug 30, 2012 Last edited: Aug 30, 2012 I DID read through the thread and even though you first mentioned it back in February. It never happened. The page you cited was from April! And it's been more than 4 months since then. I think there's a valid complaint to be had if a total of six months have passed and you never made a change to address the issue. Obviously addressing your customer's requests, not in additional content, but in fairness when it comes to leaderboards, isn't a primary concern. Mr Qwak Well-Known Member May 23, 2010 179 0 16 #8 Mr Qwak, Aug 30, 2012 Does anyone feel that what happened with Apple is a consideration in all this? Or is that irrelevant? Mr Qwak Well-Known Member May 23, 2010 179 0 16 #9 Mr Qwak, Aug 30, 2012 You know what happened between February and April then? I agree, addressing customer requests and concerns is one priority. Do you have any idea of what happened with Apple? The extent to which I got screwed over? Do you know what they did for a good will gesture? awp69 Well-Known Member Oct 30, 2009 8,249 0 36 Greenville, SC #10 awp69, Aug 30, 2012 Last edited: Aug 30, 2012 Huh? What happened with Apple that could possibly affect an update that was promised months ago? I don't know. Guess I'm talking to a wall. There's plenty of other devs who have made updates to their games due to players complaints. Heroes Call comes to mind...removing wait times and other things that players thought were going overboard. And that's a free game! Anyway, I'm not completely against IAPs. I just hate any IAP that can affect leaderboards. "Shortcuts" to unlock things without having to earn them or addtional content is fine. But you're free to do what you want. It just another dev that I cross of the list for future games. The mindless droves of iOS users who don't see the issue, well, you'll probably get their money. EDIT: Well, the only thing I could find was your issues with changing from a personal to business account. So you lost like 3-4 days of sales, but Apple featured your game afterwards to help with the issue. Don't see how this is relevant as you got more exposure for the game. Anyway, I don't want to go back and forth on this. I and others on this forum have opinions on what constitutes valid IAPs. So, I'm not likely to be swayed. And you likely aren't going to be swayed by our opinions. Just doesn't seem like how you were "screwed" by Apple should have anything to do with an update promised six months ago. shakermaker New Member Aug 30, 2012 3 0 0 #11 shakermaker, Aug 30, 2012 Don't you think you're being needlessly unkind to what is basically someone who is spending lots of time and effort to make a product you might enjoy. This isn't EA or Activision your singling out, but one person who has also taken the time to answer you personally. You call him out for making an extra 99c on IAP like it's a war crime - can you not register for a moment that getting any extra cash and perhaps reneging on an update is the result of financial constraints? Any extra dollar being the difference between being able to spend time developing and not? Or are you really that self-centred and important that everything must go according to not slightly annoying you for a buck? Nice man. Nice. awp69 Well-Known Member Oct 30, 2009 8,249 0 36 Greenville, SC #12 awp69, Aug 30, 2012 It's not about a buck. It's just the principal that I don't believe IAPs, regardless of cost, should give an edge to one player over another. Anyway, no I don't think it's a "war crime", it's just not being honest to your consumers. $1 or $1000. It's the same thing. This dev had enough time to put out the HD version of Qwak so surely he should have had time to make some tweaks to this game to make the better cars unlockable. I'm done complaining. Just like Habakuk, Gabrien and others who see the actual issue, just expressing my opinion. It's letting little things like this slide that's leading to more and more abuse of IAPs instead of what they really should be used for. Mr Qwak Well-Known Member May 23, 2010 179 0 16 #13 Mr Qwak, Aug 30, 2012 Honestly, you are so completely way off the mark, and totally understating the situation. As if they put me back to as good as where I was, before it all happened. No. That is absolutely not the case. It's like me chopping off one of your legs, then saying it's okay, I put a band-aid on it! Apologies for the graphic analogy, I wouldn't want to chop off anyone's leg. Yes, it was 6.5 days of sales; and that's not the issue. The issue is the loss of chart position, and hence, loss of visibility. That was the real kicker. The feature I got when the game came back, made a only a slight improvement. Looking at sales stats, I would say the game will only have made about 1/3 of what it would have, had this not happened. Mr Qwak Well-Known Member May 23, 2010 179 0 16 #14 Mr Qwak, Aug 30, 2012 I agree. I am not denying that the IAP in Retro Racing is flawed. It is not at all well thought out. A lot of iOS games have really screwed up IAP systems, and they're so clearly setup to get the most money out of you, usually at the expense of game-play balance etc. It's sucky. It's also super-sucky, that those type of games tend to do a lot better on the AppStore, than well designed and balanced games. It's also not fair to draw attention to the issue, and make a few superficial observations; then disappear without really digging deeper. I'm happy to dig deeper. I want you to understand my position, and what motivated me to do what I did. I'd also like to hear more about your own thoughts on what correct and fair use of IAP is. I am not denying that I made a promise via PM, to one individual. In hind-sight, it was un-wise of me to do so. My intent was to make the changes, at the time I made the promise. I don't generally make a habit of making and breaking promises. I've learned my lesson now! People expect you to stick to a promise, and no matter how drastically things change, and make it inappropriate to for you to stick to whatever it was you promised, they still expect that you will and get pissed at you, when you don't. Please try and understand, things happened, very bad things, that stressed the hell out of me. Also, the tone that 'Gabrien' was taking with me, was seriously un-cool and demanding; esp. considering what I was going through at the time, there was no compassion or understanding of my own position. He was demanding that the modifications be made to his time-scale, and he kicked up a fuss, because they did not happen in the next update (where I had addressed other more important issues). So for a variety of reasons, I felt little inclination to carry though on the commitment. I also felt he had essentially let me off the hook, by stating that the changes would never happen, and then declared he had no more interest in debating the issue. I'm very sorry I made the promise in the first place, it was wrong of me to make it. MidianGTX Well-Known Member Jun 16, 2009 3,738 10 38 #15 MidianGTX, Aug 30, 2012 Principals are even cheaper than a buck dude, let this one go and maybe some people will get to enjoy this kind offer of a free game. awp69 Well-Known Member Oct 30, 2009 8,249 0 36 Greenville, SC #16 awp69, Aug 30, 2012 I'm not saying that the changes had to be made within a demanded time period. Just that they should have been made. Anyway, I'm not hear to argue as I don't own the game and never was affected by the situation. I just honestly hate the iOS economy in general when it comes to IAPs. Personally, since you asked, I think valid uses IAPs should be for things like new content (ie., expansion packs), full game unlocks and shortcuts that allow people to get access to items in the game (like faster cars in your case) that would otherwise have to be unlocked by playing the game long enough to earn them. Guess I've been soured by games that really abuse the system. Not saying yours is a big "abuse", but it does break my theory that IAPs shouldn't be a way to basically buy higher scores on leaderboards. It just makes things out of wack. If you can earn the same things in-game, then that's a different story. Sorry if I come off as brash, others on the forum have a much more stringent position against IAPs AT ALL. I feel there is some good uses for them, so I'm not totally against games with them. Mr Qwak Well-Known Member May 23, 2010 179 0 16 #17 Mr Qwak, Aug 30, 2012 There's a lot that could be better with the AppStore. A lot of crappy games get high chart position, yet, they often have a loads of 1 star reviews! Plus, you get farm-ville type games, that get you hooked on a task-reward cycle, then get you to fork out for in game currency to speed things up. Not a big fan of that particular genre. Then you get a lot of well thought out games, with great game-play, that do nowhere near as well. Thank you. I pretty much agree with every point you've made there. A lot of games use IAP to buy in-game currency, that can be used to buy power-ups and stuff in game, that will improve your performance etc. You can usually collect the currency though play though; for example, Jet Pack Joyride does this; do you think that IAP mechanic works? I guess that works both for paid and for free apps. Then there is 'freemium' or 'free-to-play', apps. How do you feel about those? I think they often has the most cynical use of IAP. Like the whole game is designed around IAP. It's tricky though, and I can understand that developers want to feed their families, but you also want to be making decent games that play well and make sense. Well, you feel strongly about it, and a lot of others do too. How you, and others have responded to this, well, it's certainly going to shape how I approach IAP in future. I don't mind if you don't want to download the game; but no hard feelings eh? Connector Well-Known Member May 6, 2012 15,512 1 0 In the Chatroom http://thechatroom.freeforums.net/ #18 Connector, Aug 30, 2012 Mr. Qwak, Game is decent, kind of reminds me of doodle kart a little. Why not just convert this to freemium if you don't want all this contraversy? If it was freemium probably people wouldn't be concerned about all the IAPs in the game. awp69 Well-Known Member Oct 30, 2009 8,249 0 36 Greenville, SC #19 awp69, Aug 30, 2012 Last edited: Aug 30, 2012 Games like JJ and others that use currencies for unlocks are ok as long as you can earn that currency in game. I put those games in the "shortcut" category. If you want to skip grinding for currency, you can buy an IAP for that. No, earlier in history of IAPs, I probably wouldn't have liked that approach either. But I've learned to live with it. I do, however, really dislike games with dual-currency systems that make some items unattainable thru gameplay. Same goes for freemium games. If there's some sort of one-time unlock or a one-time purchase of currency that allows you to complete the game, I've learned to live with that as well. BUT any game that appears to have a never ending cycle of IAPs to progress, I skip them all together. I can't stand games that you don't really know how much you're going to spend on them. I guess I'm an old-school gamer who got used to the days of paying for a game and being able to play through the game without having to worry about hitting paywalls, etc. I'd rather pay a "premium" price for a game period. I know devs have to make a living, but I'd rather see them succeed based on the merits of their game and getting duly rewarded with word of mouth purchases. Unfortunately, that's not the route the AppStore is going. And it is a brutal market. I wanted to mention to you that I got the original iPhone version of Qwak and think you're a talented dev. Guess I just am opinionated when it comes to things that can make or break how you do on a scoreboard based on how much you're willing to spend. Funny thing is, I'm not a leaderboard whore, I just think it's unfair to the masses. Anyway, no hard feelings. And sorry to derail the thread so much. I'm sure a mod is ready to jump on the thread and say to keep it on track. Hope others do find Retro Racing enjoyable. Gabrien Well-Known Member Nov 24, 2009 5,148 0 36 #20 Gabrien, Aug 30, 2012 @awp69: I think he's saying him being "screwed" by Apple justifies him "screwing" his customers. He needed to make up the perceived lost profit. Any way he could. @dev: You lied to my face. Shame on you. And only you and I know what was said privately between us. (You must log in or sign up to post here.) Show Ignored Content Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next > Share This Page Tweet Your name or email address: Do you already have an account? No, create an account now. Yes, my password is: Forgot your password? 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Don't support this dev! He promised in Feb. 2012 that the IAPs will be obtainable through playing the game ("unlockable by skill") and not only for real money in a next update. But it never happened. Quote in the original thread: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2152786&postcount=31 Gabrien's answer: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2244299&postcount=122 Not recommended.
That sucks. Had thought about trying this, but can't stand when IAPs are implemented in a way that it affects leaderboards. If they're unlockable through game play, that's fine. If they're just cosmetic, that's also fine. But even if it is just another $.99, it makes the game imbalanced. I'd rather have had them charge $1.99 for the game than do this kind of crap.
Let's dig a little deeper shall we, rather than just cherry picking one or two posts; I think it only fair people read that thread from say here: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=123441&page=12 To get a more accurate idea of what went on.
Thanks Habakuk. Unfortunatly the dev alread added a notch to his DL count thanks the me. I'll delete it before launching though, if that helps I was considering going into the Eternal Warriors thread to plead with TA members to boycott Glu (thanks Glu for pulling the Glyder series, Beat It! and dungeon Solitaire, along with buying once storied studios ), but decided it would be best to avoid starting a potential flamewar.
I DID read through the thread and even though you first mentioned it back in February. It never happened. The page you cited was from April! And it's been more than 4 months since then. I think there's a valid complaint to be had if a total of six months have passed and you never made a change to address the issue. Obviously addressing your customer's requests, not in additional content, but in fairness when it comes to leaderboards, isn't a primary concern.
Does anyone feel that what happened with Apple is a consideration in all this? Or is that irrelevant?
You know what happened between February and April then? I agree, addressing customer requests and concerns is one priority. Do you have any idea of what happened with Apple? The extent to which I got screwed over? Do you know what they did for a good will gesture?
Huh? What happened with Apple that could possibly affect an update that was promised months ago? I don't know. Guess I'm talking to a wall. There's plenty of other devs who have made updates to their games due to players complaints. Heroes Call comes to mind...removing wait times and other things that players thought were going overboard. And that's a free game! Anyway, I'm not completely against IAPs. I just hate any IAP that can affect leaderboards. "Shortcuts" to unlock things without having to earn them or addtional content is fine. But you're free to do what you want. It just another dev that I cross of the list for future games. The mindless droves of iOS users who don't see the issue, well, you'll probably get their money. EDIT: Well, the only thing I could find was your issues with changing from a personal to business account. So you lost like 3-4 days of sales, but Apple featured your game afterwards to help with the issue. Don't see how this is relevant as you got more exposure for the game. Anyway, I don't want to go back and forth on this. I and others on this forum have opinions on what constitutes valid IAPs. So, I'm not likely to be swayed. And you likely aren't going to be swayed by our opinions. Just doesn't seem like how you were "screwed" by Apple should have anything to do with an update promised six months ago.
Don't you think you're being needlessly unkind to what is basically someone who is spending lots of time and effort to make a product you might enjoy. This isn't EA or Activision your singling out, but one person who has also taken the time to answer you personally. You call him out for making an extra 99c on IAP like it's a war crime - can you not register for a moment that getting any extra cash and perhaps reneging on an update is the result of financial constraints? Any extra dollar being the difference between being able to spend time developing and not? Or are you really that self-centred and important that everything must go according to not slightly annoying you for a buck? Nice man. Nice.
It's not about a buck. It's just the principal that I don't believe IAPs, regardless of cost, should give an edge to one player over another. Anyway, no I don't think it's a "war crime", it's just not being honest to your consumers. $1 or $1000. It's the same thing. This dev had enough time to put out the HD version of Qwak so surely he should have had time to make some tweaks to this game to make the better cars unlockable. I'm done complaining. Just like Habakuk, Gabrien and others who see the actual issue, just expressing my opinion. It's letting little things like this slide that's leading to more and more abuse of IAPs instead of what they really should be used for.
Honestly, you are so completely way off the mark, and totally understating the situation. As if they put me back to as good as where I was, before it all happened. No. That is absolutely not the case. It's like me chopping off one of your legs, then saying it's okay, I put a band-aid on it! Apologies for the graphic analogy, I wouldn't want to chop off anyone's leg. Yes, it was 6.5 days of sales; and that's not the issue. The issue is the loss of chart position, and hence, loss of visibility. That was the real kicker. The feature I got when the game came back, made a only a slight improvement. Looking at sales stats, I would say the game will only have made about 1/3 of what it would have, had this not happened.
I agree. I am not denying that the IAP in Retro Racing is flawed. It is not at all well thought out. A lot of iOS games have really screwed up IAP systems, and they're so clearly setup to get the most money out of you, usually at the expense of game-play balance etc. It's sucky. It's also super-sucky, that those type of games tend to do a lot better on the AppStore, than well designed and balanced games. It's also not fair to draw attention to the issue, and make a few superficial observations; then disappear without really digging deeper. I'm happy to dig deeper. I want you to understand my position, and what motivated me to do what I did. I'd also like to hear more about your own thoughts on what correct and fair use of IAP is. I am not denying that I made a promise via PM, to one individual. In hind-sight, it was un-wise of me to do so. My intent was to make the changes, at the time I made the promise. I don't generally make a habit of making and breaking promises. I've learned my lesson now! People expect you to stick to a promise, and no matter how drastically things change, and make it inappropriate to for you to stick to whatever it was you promised, they still expect that you will and get pissed at you, when you don't. Please try and understand, things happened, very bad things, that stressed the hell out of me. Also, the tone that 'Gabrien' was taking with me, was seriously un-cool and demanding; esp. considering what I was going through at the time, there was no compassion or understanding of my own position. He was demanding that the modifications be made to his time-scale, and he kicked up a fuss, because they did not happen in the next update (where I had addressed other more important issues). So for a variety of reasons, I felt little inclination to carry though on the commitment. I also felt he had essentially let me off the hook, by stating that the changes would never happen, and then declared he had no more interest in debating the issue. I'm very sorry I made the promise in the first place, it was wrong of me to make it.
Principals are even cheaper than a buck dude, let this one go and maybe some people will get to enjoy this kind offer of a free game.
I'm not saying that the changes had to be made within a demanded time period. Just that they should have been made. Anyway, I'm not hear to argue as I don't own the game and never was affected by the situation. I just honestly hate the iOS economy in general when it comes to IAPs. Personally, since you asked, I think valid uses IAPs should be for things like new content (ie., expansion packs), full game unlocks and shortcuts that allow people to get access to items in the game (like faster cars in your case) that would otherwise have to be unlocked by playing the game long enough to earn them. Guess I've been soured by games that really abuse the system. Not saying yours is a big "abuse", but it does break my theory that IAPs shouldn't be a way to basically buy higher scores on leaderboards. It just makes things out of wack. If you can earn the same things in-game, then that's a different story. Sorry if I come off as brash, others on the forum have a much more stringent position against IAPs AT ALL. I feel there is some good uses for them, so I'm not totally against games with them.
There's a lot that could be better with the AppStore. A lot of crappy games get high chart position, yet, they often have a loads of 1 star reviews! Plus, you get farm-ville type games, that get you hooked on a task-reward cycle, then get you to fork out for in game currency to speed things up. Not a big fan of that particular genre. Then you get a lot of well thought out games, with great game-play, that do nowhere near as well. Thank you. I pretty much agree with every point you've made there. A lot of games use IAP to buy in-game currency, that can be used to buy power-ups and stuff in game, that will improve your performance etc. You can usually collect the currency though play though; for example, Jet Pack Joyride does this; do you think that IAP mechanic works? I guess that works both for paid and for free apps. Then there is 'freemium' or 'free-to-play', apps. How do you feel about those? I think they often has the most cynical use of IAP. Like the whole game is designed around IAP. It's tricky though, and I can understand that developers want to feed their families, but you also want to be making decent games that play well and make sense. Well, you feel strongly about it, and a lot of others do too. How you, and others have responded to this, well, it's certainly going to shape how I approach IAP in future. I don't mind if you don't want to download the game; but no hard feelings eh?
Mr. Qwak, Game is decent, kind of reminds me of doodle kart a little. Why not just convert this to freemium if you don't want all this contraversy? If it was freemium probably people wouldn't be concerned about all the IAPs in the game.
Games like JJ and others that use currencies for unlocks are ok as long as you can earn that currency in game. I put those games in the "shortcut" category. If you want to skip grinding for currency, you can buy an IAP for that. No, earlier in history of IAPs, I probably wouldn't have liked that approach either. But I've learned to live with it. I do, however, really dislike games with dual-currency systems that make some items unattainable thru gameplay. Same goes for freemium games. If there's some sort of one-time unlock or a one-time purchase of currency that allows you to complete the game, I've learned to live with that as well. BUT any game that appears to have a never ending cycle of IAPs to progress, I skip them all together. I can't stand games that you don't really know how much you're going to spend on them. I guess I'm an old-school gamer who got used to the days of paying for a game and being able to play through the game without having to worry about hitting paywalls, etc. I'd rather pay a "premium" price for a game period. I know devs have to make a living, but I'd rather see them succeed based on the merits of their game and getting duly rewarded with word of mouth purchases. Unfortunately, that's not the route the AppStore is going. And it is a brutal market. I wanted to mention to you that I got the original iPhone version of Qwak and think you're a talented dev. Guess I just am opinionated when it comes to things that can make or break how you do on a scoreboard based on how much you're willing to spend. Funny thing is, I'm not a leaderboard whore, I just think it's unfair to the masses. Anyway, no hard feelings. And sorry to derail the thread so much. I'm sure a mod is ready to jump on the thread and say to keep it on track. Hope others do find Retro Racing enjoyable.
@awp69: I think he's saying him being "screwed" by Apple justifies him "screwing" his customers. He needed to make up the perceived lost profit. Any way he could. @dev: You lied to my face. Shame on you. And only you and I know what was said privately between us.