The demise and doom of RPGs

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by BirdieNZ, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. BirdieNZ

    BirdieNZ Member

    Apr 25, 2012
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    On the lamentable state of games in which one plays a role
    And the downfall thereof
    And potential salvation


    Infinity Blade, Inotia, Illusia, Zenonia, Destinia, Dead Space, World of Magic, Order & Chaos, Aralon: Sword and Shadow, Battleheart, Braveheart, Crimsonheart, Dungeon Hunter, the list goes on. One thing all these games have in common is the acronym RPG, or Role Playing Game. And some of these games have been highly praised as RPGs, some gaining 5/5 stars pr scoring very highly. But I've played the RPGs which have been deemed "the best" out of all the RPGs, and found that there was something lacking in almost all of them.

    Roles.

    More precisely, interesting roles.

    How many of you remember that the main character of Infinity Blade II's name is Siris? What about the main character of Dead Space? Why did you leave your little village in Aralon?

    I don't remember. Because I didn't care enough about the different characters, because there WAS no backstory, there was little to no character development, the overarching plot was shallow and predictable, the character had no real effect on the plot, there was no motivation behind what each of the characters did, et cetera. Not for just one of those RPGs but nearly ALL of them.

    The first RPG I ever played on any device was The Elder Scrolls III : Morrowind. To this day, it stands out as one of the best RPGs in the history of RPGs. Perhaps that meant I set the bar too high.

    The first RPG on iOS I ever played was Wild Frontier. So far, in terms of an interesting backstory, it's still one of the best RPGs on iOS. It wasn't great otherwise, but it had a story and some basic character development and a backstory and was quite interesting. But I'm not a huge fan of the graphical style and top down playstyle; I wanted something more Western.

    So the next RPG I tried was Pocket Legends. Reviews said it was one of the top 3 MMORPGs! It must have an amazing story, considering the graphics don't look that great!

    Nope. I don't recall...well...any story at all. It's possible there was one. Maybe my memory's really bad. But it can't have been much of one. I can remember Morrowind's story quite well, I can remember Wild Frontier's story to a certain extent. Pocket Legends seemed to be about grinding. And not much else.

    OH WELL, I figured, there surely must be some good RPGs out there SOMEWHERE. After all, a game on the scale of Pocket Legends is certainly full of potential for good story; I can't blame it on the limited device.

    Next up: Yslandia MMORPG.
    Didn't get very far because the gameplay disgusted me. Maybe the game's become better, if someone could let me know then I might try it out.

    Then I found Order & Chaos. I could see it was a WoW clone, but hey, WoW had characterization and story, and I never played WoW so maybe this would be fun! I bought it, downloaded a rather large game (which made me excited for what it had to offer), and started playing. Gameplay wasn't toooo bad, although the actual fighting didn't really take any skill. And it seemed like it might have a storyline...until I finished that quest.

    ...

    So many levels later, after joining a clan and running through much of the world I realized that the game was comprised of small quests and slightly larger quests. There was no main plot, no main quest as such, just little uninteresting quests to give you experience for the next level. It was the most bonedry excuse for an RPG on that scale that I've ever seen. The only thing that took me through it for that long was being part of a clan.

    OK THEN, iOS MMORPGs officially suck. But that single player RPG, that wasn't too bad. Let's try another one:

    Dungeon Hunter 2. Horrible gameplay, horrible story, no characterization, no thank you.

    And then I found it, the game I had been looking for: Aralon: Sword and Shadow! A Western RPG, decent graphics, it looked like the Morrowind I grew up with. Surely this would finally be the RPG I've been looking for! Yeah...no. If it was a proof of concept for how an iOS device can handle a largish world then it succeeded...but it brands itself as an RPG. Not much role playing going on there, other than grinding through some stuff, leveling up some skills, and moving on to the next excrutiatingly mind numbing story segment. It was about here that I realized that these RPGs, the best iOS had to offer, simply didn't have any meaningful content to them. So from this point on I became rather pessimistic about iOS RPGs.

    Which is funny, because the next few games I played actually weren't as bad as the previous ones in terms of story.
    NOVA 2. Terrible plot but it had one and it was interestingish not really. Still, it was a shooter, I wasn't going to complain. Much better than no story at all, and the multiplayer is excellent.
    Infinity Blade I. Not much of a story, graphics were good, gameplay was ok if repetitive.
    Infinity Blade II. Much better plot, I only guessed what would happen at the end about 15 minutes before it happened, and the character actually had a name (Not that I remembered it; he wasn't much of an interesting character. Radriar, on the other hand...)
    Dead Space. I didn't finish it although I still mean to, as it actually had a story! And characters! With backstory and motivation for what they did!!!! Still not near as good in terms of what story I could see as PC RPGs, but certainly making me a bit less pessimistic.
    Backstab. Backstab made me happy. Lots of fun to run around on rooftops, there was an overarching plot and story, character development, backstory, motivation, stuff that happened besides what happened to your character. The world seemed closer to a real world where people did stuff than any other iOS RPG so far. Sure, the different things I mentioned were not 10/10. And it's not entirely a traditional RPG (I didn't even see it on that list of RPGs on this site). But it had the things that make RPGs have the word "role" in their name, so it made me happy.
    Superbrothers: Sword and Sworcery. Amazing game. Certainly not a traditional game, more of an experience. It wasn't a huge game so the story wasn't much but it was well executed and had excellent characterization.
    Dark Meadow. Certainly this game had potential. It didn't max it out but it was interesting enough, if it didn't end up being a grindfest then I'd probably think of it more highly.


    I played a few other RPGs of course, most of them terrible. Not necessarily un-fun, as it were, but they totally missed the plot. Literally.
    I know I'm not the only person who has seen this about iOS RPGs; I've seen similar sentiments expressed elsewhere.



    So, to the purpose of this meandering tale of misery and woe!
    RPG makers of the world. Please. You make some amazing gameplay, amazing graphics, and amazing games. But you're missing the amazing stories that we want to hear. We want to be sucked into the world you made, to cry when the characters cry, to laugh when the characters laugh, to feel emotions other than loss and victory. We want to FEEL. We want to know why it is that the hero of the tale does what he does, and why the villain is so villainous. Make us hate that villain. Make us care about the hero. We have level progression; give us story progression! Give us your Shakespeare and your Milton, tell us about Hamlet and the paradise which is lost, give us Orwell and give us Lord of the Flies, give us your poets and your bards and your stories that fill your minds when you're trying to go to sleep at night.

    We have Angry Birds to test our skill at tapping a screen; test our ability to be moved.




    Thank you for reading. If you have any games which you think have something of what I'm looking for, please, inform me. I'm currently looking at buying Chaos Rings; any advice on whether that is worth my money for the story would be appreciated.
     
  2. Royce

    Royce Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    It's too bad you don't have an iPad because you'd probably love avernum (and avadon for that matter). There are good iOS RPGs with good stories, but most of them are "retro" if you know what I mean, a lot of 2D dragon warrior lookalikes like the ash games, and some even older school like silversword. Just try searching the forum for RPGs with good storylines and you should find recommendations.

    To your post in general, I can only say the disappearance from RPGs of actual role playing has been happening for a long time, with many genres emerging (to which most of your examples belong) that preserve only the level progression and/or character customization aspects and leave the actual RP out of the G. As far as I am concerned, actual RPGs became a niche genre decades ago :(
     
  3. sizzlakalonji

    sizzlakalonji Moderator
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    All three of the Chaos Rings games are worth every penny. They are truly worthy of the Square Enix brand.
     
  4. bighi

    bighi Member

    Jan 2, 2011
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    No, they're not. They have the exact same problems he's been talking about.
    Bland unsatisfying story, bland characters, no real story or meaning. It hurts even more because it comes from Square, a company that once knew how to make great stories.

    Even if Chaos Rings were $1.99 games I still would not recommend them.
     
  5. sizzlakalonji

    sizzlakalonji Moderator
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    Yes, they are. See, I can state an opinion as if it's fact too. If you think they have bland stories and characters, I truly wonder what you feel are better on this platform.
     
  6. SkyMuffin

    SkyMuffin Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2010
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    #6 SkyMuffin, Apr 25, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
    Crimson Gem Saga
    Final Fantasy 1 + 2
    Final Fantasy Tactics: WotL
    Baldur's Gate (coming soon)
    Dungeons of Dredmor (coming soon)
    Avernum
    Avadon
    Undercroft
    100 Rogues
    Sword of Fargoal
    Powder
    Legends of Yore
    Dink Smallwood
    Mage Gauntlet
    Secret of Mana
    Swordigo
    Ash 1 + 2
    Chrono Trigger

    Conclusion: You're wrong, there are lots of good RPGs on iOS. From this list alone you can get well over 2000 hours of gameplay. Yes, lots of these are remakes or ports, but the market is quickly growing and only promises to get better in the future. It's certainly not the "demise and doom" of RPGs or something as melodramatic as that.
     
  7. JindoFox

    JindoFox Well-Known Member

    Dec 21, 2008
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    Such negativity. You want a good story, and you seem to have time on your hands, so why not just read a good book?
     
  8. BirdieNZ

    BirdieNZ Member

    Apr 25, 2012
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    I read plenty of books :p I want to be able to play a game which has good graphics, good gameplay, AND good story, and so far iOS is lacking the story part and often the other two parts in the majority of its RPGs. Not all, but most.

    SkyMuffin, I don't especially want to play ports and remakes of games which I've already played, and I prefer Western style RPGs, ideally 3D although that's not a requirement.

    And the style of what I wrote was meant to be overly melodramatic, in case that wasn't picked up.
     
  9. drelbs

    drelbs Well-Known Member

    Jun 25, 2009
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    And here I thought Doom RPG was pretty good! :p
     
  10. SkyMuffin

    SkyMuffin Well-Known Member

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    I think that's the problem then. There aren't really very many good WRPGs, period. And most of them have been on platforms that have much better hardware. Give it some time and it will happen (especially now with much better devices). It's still a very new market. I think it's going to be mostly indies for now though...you'll probably be interested in Grimrock and Baldur's Gate when they come out. Avernum and Avadon are good if you have an iPad.
     
  11. crex

    crex Doctor of Game of the Week-ology

    Oct 18, 2010
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    *cough*YouShouldTryMageGauntlet*cough*
     
  12. Echoseven

    Echoseven Moderator
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    So... You come to a gaming ecosystem where $10 is considered a rip-off no matter what and expect the same depth and satisfaction as Morrowind - a game which, according to Wikipedia, took a lot of people 5 years to make?

    If you pardon the expression, that's wack.
     
  13. smegly

    smegly Well-Known Member

    Mar 27, 2012
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    I'm seeing very little to indicate what you'd consider a good story. Most WRPGs are too open-ended to have a particularly strong central narrative and plenty of people who do table top roleplaying don't really jive with JRPGs because the stories are too spelled out and wouldn't consider that actually playing a role.
     
  14. BirdieNZ

    BirdieNZ Member

    Apr 25, 2012
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    EchoSeven, it's not that I'm expecting a game on the scale of Morrowind; just better quality writing and plot than, say, Aralon. It isn't that Aralon doesn't have any writing, plot, and voice acting, just the quality is far worse than it could easily have been without significantly more time and effort put in.

    Smegly, while I prefer the WRPG playstyle, a good JRPG is fine with me as well, as long as the story is solid and there's real character progression. I can't see how these are especially difficult things to add in.
    Good WRPGs such as Morrowind have strong central plots but it's not a requirement that you follow it through to progress in the game.

    A good story is something a little more complicated than "Kill the Godking because he's a bad dude, oh and your descendants will be doing the exact same thing" (maybe a little harsh but you see my point). Infinity Blade II at least had a plot twist.

    I daresay there probably are several RPGs out there which have good story, but they also have to have good gameplay and at least "okay" graphics. Infinity Blade has the graphics, MUDs have the story, and several games have sufficient gameplay. It's games which form a cohesive whole out of those 3 which form really good RPGs, and I haven't seen any which do that really well. Backstab did all of them to some extent, as I said, and I'll try out a few others which people in this thread and elsewhere have suggested.
     
  15. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Agree with Echoseven, its funny what people expect now for a few dollars and theyre probably the ones to wait till its half price anyway !

    Aralon is superb, cant wait for Ravensword II.

    I still would love a port of Ultima IV which had basic graphics but just a huge deep storyline, graphics dont have to make these games, just huge long epic non-linear quests would be great.

    Again i find it laughable how anyone can say theres no decent RPG's out or expect some huge great 3000 hour storyline from their 99c RPG they've just bought.
     
  16. Gabrien

    Gabrien Well-Known Member

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    Actually, a decent storyline would amount to by far the least portion of any RPG's budget. I'd even go so far as to say the extra expense would in most cases be negligible. Lack of developing funds is absolutely not the reason so many games (not just RPGs) lack a decent story and/or decent writing. And that's all the original poster was lamenting; not Morrowind-like production values in general.
     
  17. violentv

    violentv Well-Known Member

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    #17 violentv, Apr 25, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
    kukuku... how many of these are actually ports? The op only brought up original ios RPGs in his lamentations. It only goes to show that ...there just aren't any original ios RPGs with well developed lore and plot. The meaning and essence of 'RPG' has been warped so badly in the appstore that anything with a level up window and some customization is dubbed a RPG.

    I suppose lore, plot and writing are just so very under appreciated/valued by most gamers nowadays that they are fine with playing in an empty world.
     
  18. Echoseven

    Echoseven Moderator
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    That "least" would quite often cover the WHOLE budget of a mid-range iOS game. Good (read: accomplished) writers are far from cheap.

    Sure, you could find cheap budding talent and cut various corners, but there is a huge difference in the levels of talent (and therefore cost).
     
  19. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

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    I think as theres sooooo many apps out there a lot of people just want to play a game and arent so bothered about a huge backstory or intro scene as they used to be.

    Theres still a ton of variety out there, how about all the gamebooks ? Different style of game i know but a lot more detail and you use your imagination more. I would love the ultimate RPG with a huge back story and huge non-linear world but i cant see that dream RPG happening. But i cant complain as i'm spoilt with games such as Aralon, Ravensword and many others. Had 3 months of Order & Chaos addiction last year as well.

    Theres lots of smaller based RPG's out there, but a lot of it is down to cost/time when it comes to huge back stories/writing etc as these devs need to sell units. Plus i think a lot of gamers move quickly from one game to the next due to the amount of games getting released weekly and the cost being so cheap so devs want to grab their attention quickly.

    If you want a major RPG then its a console or PC i think, but considering how cheap iOS RPG's are i still think you get a lot for your money
     
  20. GeekyDad

    GeekyDad Well-Known Member

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    It's one thing to want all those things mentioned; it's another to not want to pay for them.
     

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