I hope apps become more expensive.

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by Alittletf, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Alittletf

    Alittletf Member

    Dec 5, 2012
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    Marketing at Tiny Factory
    San Diego
    Since taking a job in marketing for an application design and development team company back in august, I have learned what the behind the scenes development looks like for app developers.

    I, like many on outside the tech world, thought that developers could create apps in weeks and people could build websites overnight. I have since become educated on the art and delicate precision it takes to create beautiful, engaging, and creative apps.

    The amount of time, energy, commitment and perseverance it takes to create these apps is mind boggling. Its only more confusing to me why developers have continued to create great apps and still price them at practically nothing.

    Its a vicious circle since I believe it was stemmed from the beginning of apps in which the market was dominated by free and simple games. As the app market grew and more time and development was put in, the quality of apps has sky rocketed. However prices really havent. Consumers laugh at an app that costs 2$-5$ they get for life, when their lunch is over 10$. And 5$ is on the extreme high end for an app outside of the "productivity" category.

    In the end I hope developers charge more for their apps. Its the only way the app industry will attract more talent and new ideas by people who can see a profitable result. I dont want to say its all about the money, I just see the quality and time put into some of these apps and would like to see those developers rewarded better for their work.

    Am I wrong in believing this?
     
  2. tofusoup

    tofusoup Well-Known Member

    Aug 23, 2010
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    Game Designer
    San Francisco
    Yup, people are spoiled.
     
  3. Wizardo

    Wizardo Well-Known Member

    Jul 30, 2012
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    Starving indie developer
    New Jersey!
    Well, I've been working on my game for 3 years now, and I'll be damned if I sell it for a dollar!

    But I might end up selling it for a buck if sales are terrible... :(
     
  4. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
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    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    I remember that speech. So, a buck it is then. :s

    I'm obviously with the O/P here, bias notwithstanding. I think it's too late though tbh, one dollar is the expected price point and anything more than 3 won't get looked at unless it's a humungous brand. And I'm talking Halo or Pokemon here.

    Large sales volumes may make up for it to some extent, but it's risky relying on it - especially with so much good stuff coming out week on week.
     
  5. bramblett05

    bramblett05 Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2012
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    #5 bramblett05, Jan 3, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
    Hope you don't mind me in here but maybe more advertising on here would work not just a week after but longer. I'm a 99 cent and up gamer and some games I got I heard from people because no developer had advertise the games they just disappeared.

    Also is the price drops which sometimes hurt depending on price. Its good though because supporting the devloper but if a 17.99 game goes free the week after release then it kinda stings.
     
  6. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
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    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    iirc, a site takeover for a week is about 10-20K. Something like that.

    That means you need a shitload of extra customers from it and I'm not sure how that math works - bloody expensive risk to take even if you have it spare, which most of us indies sadly don't.

    It's a toughie for the (I expect large majority of us) indies, sitting somewhere in the full time job but not a big publisher seats.
     
  7. bramblett05

    bramblett05 Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2012
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    Developers can't make a thread to advertise for free?
     
  8. iPadisGreat

    iPadisGreat Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2012
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    Advertising is a skill, just like coding, which some developers lack. It isn't just simply going online and mingling with the users.

    How will the developer manage his followers when he is challenged by one or more of his posters? What about jealous posters who start rubbishing the rest of the community when he starts to feel neglected by the developer? Or when mischievous posters deliberately cause a rift in the developer's thread?

    A seasoned Public Relations practitioner can handle these with ease, and that is why they make big bucks working for politicians and MNCs.

    Now, does the developer really want to subject himself to the stress of dealing with all that, or would he choose to focus on his core competency and outsource the rest?

    It is his money on the line, so only the developer himself can decide.
     
  9. Hambo12

    Hambo12 Well-Known Member

    Jul 23, 2012
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    on the internet
    Hope you don't mind me in her either, but actually look at Simogo. they price bumpy road and beat sneak bandit at 3$ and they make money :) if your lucky just to get to the front page of toucharcade your sales will boost further. Have some unique art and that's another plus.
     
  10. R3v

    R3v Well-Known Member

    Sep 17, 2012
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    CMO @ PIXEL FEDERATION
    Apps won't be more expensive. Market is chief here and market wants freemium apps with additional features. I have worked in ad agency some time ago, made plenty of apps and yes - it took weeks and months. And what. Customer does not care. There is freemium on mobile, PC, consoles. The biggest game at all these days (LoL) is freemium.

    Either you learn how to profit on that or you can charge whatever price you want and blame everyone else of not being successful.
     
  11. Foursaken_Media

    Foursaken_Media Well-Known Member
    Patreon Indie

    Haha, aint that the truth. "No seriously, I'm going to stick to my guns with this game. Just look at all the other crap out there - I KNOW this game is worth at least 10 bucks, but we'll sell for 3... anything but a buck! We spent so long making it, its so unique, it looks awesome, and it just IS awesome!"

    x months later said game is permanently at $.99 :p

    In the end, you can argue all day about worth, but from a business perspective you've got to do whats best... if that means a $.99 sale (or permanently $.99), I don't think developers should beat themselves up about the vocal minority, or selling their game for 10x less what its worth, IF its the right business choice.

    Thankfully, IAPs have been a very nice way to kind of skirt around the whole "race to the bottom" pricing effect. With N.Y.Zombies 2 for ex, 33% of our revenue has been from IAPs (in a non-obtrusive, cheap IAP scheme), with 25% of our total "downloads" being IAPs. You'll hear the vocal minority of people complaining about IAPs in paid games, but its a fact of life for developers now in order to mitigate the fact that they have to charge dirt for their games up front... I'm not saying put in lame IAPs to force spending, but extra unlockable content on the side that costs extra seems to be a great way to make extra $$.

    Heck, in the IAP market there is an even greater case for a cheaper cost up front... more people downloading = more opportunities to sell IAPs... and if our numbers are any indication, paid customers are actually MORE likely to get IAPs vs free downloaders, percentage-wise (you already know they are willing to spend money, unlike in free games), as long as they are fair and priced accordingly.

    Anyway, I know it sucks but ultimately its up to developers to adapt to the market, and unfortunately the market is only getting cheaper (moving quickly towards freemium) :( Its already such a different game than it was 2 years ago!
     
  12. bramblett05

    bramblett05 Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2012
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    Sad to hear that. Love your games and would gladly pay more and same for rubicon. Both great developers. Its just people rather shell money for dragonvale but complain when a app is more then 1.99
     
  13. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
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    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    A popular myth. We hit the front page for both our war games when they first came out, both earning 5 star reviews and glowing copy, for which we were grateful and happy.

    However the sales spikes were worth somewhere in the region of $1-2K over a couple of days, over and above the average sales we were usually getting. After a couple of days, back to normal. So that was a nice one-off boost for sure, but it had practically no effect in terms of long lasting business building.

    For discovery purposes, it's basically word of mouth or nothing. (Which is at least free if you can get it working for you.)
     
  14. Blackharon

    Blackharon Well-Known Member

    Mar 15, 2010
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    Game Designer for Ludia
    Canada
    Which, sadly, lends itself best to free, ultra casual games. Like Dragonvale.
     
  15. Foursaken_Media

    Foursaken_Media Well-Known Member
    Patreon Indie

    #15 Foursaken_Media, Jan 3, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
    Actually, I think you'd be surprised at how BAD of an idea that could be for smaller indies (Punch Quest is a good example).

    For freemium to work, you really need HUGE download numbers, bc the IAP conversion rates are so low with free games - its just when you have huge numbers of people downloading the game, even 1-2% conversion rate will get you some nice return... but, high download numbers are very difficult to get... especially when you're "just another casual game" buried in the sea of other casual games. Its even harder to maintain a relatively decent position on the free charts.

    For us, our 2 casual games (which are actually pretty unique, and really good games, in my bias opinion :p) have done so much worse than our mid-hardcore games it isn't even funny at all... needless to say we will never be making another casual game again :p
     
  16. bramblett05

    bramblett05 Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2012
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    Well I would have gotten most games sooner but my little 8 gig is full so I have to debate what to delete (don't use a computer) but if I read reviews and watch videos (TA plays,sanuku or some random person) and I like it I'm getting it regardless of price I don't wait for sales. But sadly most games that are super good go under radar. Great big war game and NY zombies both perfect fit. I hope we don't go the freemeium route but sadly if so then do it right dont do it dragonvale and simpsons tapped out style.
     
  17. Alittletf

    Alittletf Member

    Dec 5, 2012
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    Marketing at Tiny Factory
    San Diego

    Totally agree with you. And I actually dont see anything wrong with the feemium model. That is how we structure our pricing plans. I think there is an opportunity to become very profitable offering a breadth of options to the consumer. On the consumer side, I like the freemium model as it gives me an opportunity to test the game before I buy it.
     
  18. bramblett05

    bramblett05 Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2012
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    Yea but to get the most out of it you need to pay as you play or fork over money for crystals or doughnuts or whatever to get the most out of it. Sorry I wasn't gonna pay 150$ for a laser to get a character. Also freemeium games have a harder time being time consuming because they get boring fast. I'm testing out blockheads right now and its freemeium but done right and forsaken media is releasing a freemeium TD/minecraft game and from the previews I seem it is done right (also can't wait)
     
  19. Pman

    Pman Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2010
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    Texas
    You have to count in app purchases. All those games with numerous hours put into them usually have some sort of iaps.

    But they will never go up in price.
     
  20. bramblett05

    bramblett05 Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2012
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    I want iap like how DLC is with ps3 and 360 added levels more story and so forth. Few games here do that just iap for crowns,money,and that BS
     

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