TouchArcade uncomfortably subjective/promotional

Discussion in 'Site Feedback and News' started by Jensen, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. Jensen

    Jensen Well-Known Member

    Jul 2, 2009
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    #1 Jensen, Aug 6, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
    I have read touch arcade for several months and, while I enjoy the amount of content, I am uncomfortable with the subjectivity portrayed by the authors. Here are the issues I have:

    - often it is hard to tell whether an article is a news announcement or a review, especially considering the amount of subjective words ("you have to buy this," "it seems worth the money," etc) in each article

    - The amount of positive press you give games before giving them an initial review or even first look is surprising. It's almost as though you are gaining some kind of benefit if any game (even a mediocre one) is bought when clicked through from your site.

    - The number of times I have seen that a game is a "must buy" at a certain price, or similar language, is astounding. If I bought every "must buy" game recommended by your website, I would be several hundred dollars in the hole. Why not put games to a higher standard and only recommend those that truly stand out from the pack?

    - Reviews seem to be intent only on getting the user to purchase, not helping the user figure out if this is the right game for him/her. For example, in the article http://toucharcade.com/2009/08/06/spy-bot-chronicles-just-go-ahead-and-buy-it-now/ you give a blanket recommendation to buy before discussing the game whatsoever.

    Again, while I appreciate the amount of content you put out, I am put off by how eager you are to recommend seemingly almost any game out there. This is exactly the kind of thing that will cause developers to continue developing mediocre, uninspired games for the platform. I hope you change your direction as your site evolves.
     
  2. Booch138

    Booch138 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'll even admit that the article you sited's (Today's Spybot Chroicles) first paragraph did irk me a little. Just seemed a tad unnessisary for the first paragraph. I have seen some other unfavourable material, but for the most part I kind of dismiss it. A lot of the time thier main reviews are generally decent. I usually don't like someone telling me to go buy something vs telling me why I would want to, but most of the time they mix the 2 up a little.. heh

    Brave thread though, I applaud that.
     
  3. Thorero

    Thorero Well-Known Member

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    Jensen, You've put into text what's been running around my head for quite some time. And I agree wholeheartedly. Whilst, as you say, there's a good ammount of content, the constant positive press and "Buy it now" attitude is a bit much.

    In short, I back everything you've just said, and couldn't have put it better myself.
     
  4. arn

    arn Administrator
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    We've covered this before. Front page game selection is primarily decided upon by games we like and therefore recommend. The fact that most of the reviews that we post are positive is by design, not by accident. Developers often email us asking us to review their game. Our primary reason not to review a game is that we simply didn't like it.

    The exceptions to this are big name titles that tend to get reviews (positive or negative) regardless of whether we like them or not.

    If you want to read article after article about games you've never heard of that suck... well, that's a site that no one else is going to want to read.

    Yep. that's what we do.

    arn
     
  5. DaveMc99

    DaveMc99 Well-Known Member

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    There are over 8000+ paid games in the store now. TA has recommended under 800. That is the top 10%.

    It would help if you linked to a mediocre game that TA recommended. Spy Bot is 5 star game in iTunes. In the Spy Bot review he did write this for people that want to know why buy it. "If you still must be convinced, here's the spiel:"
    A number of people here only read Big Albie's rating on a game and don't read his whole review. Why does it matter if the recommendation is the first paragraph or the last?
     
  6. VeganTnT

    VeganTnT Moderator
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    Actually that's called my Twitter feed, haha. The games that request reviews but are completely unplayable or need work usually get a shout out there
     
  7. Stroffolino

    Stroffolino Well-Known Member
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    I wouldn't mind seeing occasional reviews of bad games.

    Not only could this be entertaining (i.e. failed American Idol auditions), it could stimulate discussion and most importantly would provide nice counterpoints to the endless reviews of "must have" games. If every article strikes the same tone, it lessens the impact of an actual endorsement.

    A good analogy is professional movie critics. They don't go and review every direct-to-dvd movie that churns out, but they present a nice mix of positive and negative reviews, while always making sure to review any "big name" movie.

     
  8. arn

    arn Administrator
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    actually, that's kind of inflated.

    There are 11574 games (link) in the app store. The 800+ count is from various TouchArcade article pricing categories including free, but we didn't recommend them all, and a game we cover multiple times gets placed in the categories multiple times.

    arn
     
  9. silentdante

    silentdante Well-Known Member

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    #9 silentdante, Aug 6, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
    ok lets look at it like this, this is a blog review site with forums, on a blog, they arent IGN or another gaming website that HAS to or SHOULD review everything. they are a blog by some guys that love iphone gaming, and offer impressions thoughts and reviews on things that interest THEM, you know, how a blog usualy works. just because they are the best and an extremely popular blog does not make them into a full blown review site. they owe nothing to anyone just because they are popular. thats my opinion on it, i enjoy the forums because you get lots of peoples thoughts, you get thier front page reviews of games THEY love, and suggest you buy them to so you can share in the enjoyment they are getting. they have no interest to blog about games that arent great or to help hype something just because a company asks them to.

    if you go to www.appshoper.com and look at the last 10 hours, you will probly see about 20 NEW games that have come out without a mention at all, though one like dungeon scroll, whose topic i started would be one of those "missed" games that got a front page article because it's a fun game with a twist. they say go out a buy it because it is a cool new type of word genre game. there are a ton of other topics created for games that people swear are 5 star games that never see the front page, probly because the blog owners and writers didnt enjoy it. they also try to cover news like bubble bobble and upcoming games, which often dont come with the GO BUY IT NOW hype.

    just because i'm rambling i'll end with this. i see warpack: grunts as an advertiser all over the site (or used to) and if i rememeber correctly when they reviewed it, it really didnt have that "this game is awesome go buy it" type of review, to me it was more of a "this game is pretty fun, some faults, get it if it interests you" type of thing. maybe i am remembering wrong, but that at least lends some honesty to a blog where they dont owe any honesty to us the readers.
     
  10. DaveMc99

    DaveMc99 Well-Known Member

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    I was going by apptism's number of paid games 8939. Just making the point there is a process before games are recommended and there are literally hundreds of 4/5 star games in the store now.
     
  11. Booch138

    Booch138 Well-Known Member

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    Good point. I guess looking at it like that makes it more appropriate.

    The reviews arn't nessisarily why I post here though, it's definitely the community :)
     
  12. silentdante

    silentdante Well-Known Member

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    #12 silentdante, Aug 6, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
    I agree wholeheartedly, when i first got my iphone in june, i searched for every site i could find on apps, not just games, but everything. i now have 17 sites bookmarked that i do check on a regular schedual, and while some are great for reviews on everything, some are great on reviews for just games, some are just a blog about the iphone itself (apples tuaw).

    the reason this site stays important to me is the community they provide through the forums, the reviews or news on the front page just serve as an axtra thought by the forums hosts. plus they get some nice interviews with game creators (rogue planet, the sega 2d retro engine guy, ect.) because of the popularity you get extra stuff like that.

    you have big albie, devilishly good(sp?) and a couple other people that often give great reviews or impressions of games too. the community is strong, and often not to biased (though i am looking at you minigore) plus you have to have your own common sense and sense of value and what your into.
     
  13. yourofl10

    yourofl10 Well-Known Member

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    +1 You have guts dude. I'm here for the forum because there are awsome people here and its fin and keeps me up to date. I read the home page reviews sometimes but not to much.
     
  14. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
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    Arn, I think your response to Jensen is a bit too mild. Here you have someone who has been lurking on the site for months and uses his second (second!) post to question your integrity and that of the other contributors -- and does it in the most mealy-mouth way possible ("I appreciate the amount of content you put out..except that it's bought and paid for").

    I guess it's good that you are a tolerant and patient soul; I, for one, would have told him to go to hell.
     
  15. Jensen

    Jensen Well-Known Member

    Jul 2, 2009
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    For one, I wish you wouldn't troll. From my position the main objection was not being critical (criticism in the literary sense...a solid analysis), though the propensity of "you have to buy this right now" commentary did leave me wanting an explanation of any relationship between advertising and editorial content. And, I do appreciate the website, I would (as a reader) like to see it evolve in beneficial ways.

    Lastly, I do not "lurk" on the site. I use the RSS feed to read reviews and do not normally post on the forums. I saw that there was a forum for feedback but not direct email contact link, or ele I would have sent the feedback directly to the staff.

    Any good website should welcome constructive criticism and interaction with its audience, and I'd like to hope that they took my feedback in the way it was intended.
     
  16. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
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    Jensen -- there is only one logical conclusion of your "criticism": that Arn, Hodapp, etc are on the take from developers (you even suggest it on your post). That would mean that the opinions offered are not honest, and that, essentially, the Touch Arcade crew are a bunch of liars. That is not constructive criticism -- it's character assassination, which makes you the troll in this conversation.

    I use an RSS feed too -- that has nothing to do with being a lurker. According to Answers.com: "A lurker is one who sits in an internet chat room, message base or newsgroup , but does not participate." The fact that you choose to "participate" by questioning the honesty of the moderators is, in my view, pretty offensive. That's not trolling, that's expressing an opinion -- something that you invite when you make your views public.
     
  17. I read the original post as mostly complaining about the overuse of calls to action (eg "Buy this now") instead of actual descriptions of game play pros and cons.

    I agree with that to some extent, and I think it is part of the reason for the hype backlash that I have been seeing in the forums.

    I would prefer if reviews stuck to giving descriptions of game play, and letting the readers know about the good and bad points of a game, and the features and bullet points, and let the reader decide for themselves if they think the game is worth the money.

    It seems like a majority of the forum posts most days are people asking if they should buy one game or the other, so maybe the TA readership in general likes reviews to have an "OMG, buy this game now" element.
     
  18. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
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    From the original post: It's almost as though you are gaining some kind of benefit if any game (even a mediocre one) is bought when clicked through from your site.

    Longer, more in-depth reviews are appreciated, but unless you're reading something like the New York Review of Books, there's an expectation that a reviewer will, at some point, let us know what they think of the game. It's the same with movie reviews, music reviews (check out Pitchfork, for crying out loud), book reviews, etc.

    I'm sure it would be very difficult for Arn and co. to achieve any level of enthusiasm about this endeavor if all they did was dutifully transcribe the features of the games they cover. In any event, I find that TouchArcade maintains a pretty tempered tone: the hype tends to get built up in the forums.
     
  19. HJJ

    HJJ Well-Known Member

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    I suppose you also oppose Entertainment Weekly's "grades" and People Magazine's "stars"? I think people need to calm down and stop taking things so literally and so personally without looking beyond this insular iPhone gaming environment.

    When Entertainment Weekly gives a movie an A, I take that to mean that the reviewer generally recommends the movie to people who are interested in the genre or to those that find the preview materials otherwise appealing. I don't take it to mean that the reviewer implores every person on the planet, regardless of personal taste or circumstance, to see the movie.

    Touch Arcade has simply chosen a different approach to making general recommendations. Instead of giving a game an A or 5 stars or some other arbitrary "rating", they are straightforwardly letting us know whether they recommend a game or not. There is no "call to action." Arn or Hodapp probably aren't going to show up on your doorstep if you choose to ignore their recommendations. What about this concept is in any way difficult to understand? Part of the answer seems to be that people don't understand the point of reviews. Reviews aren't merely descriptions. How F-ing boring would that be? And how pointless, as well. Reviews are inherently flavored by the opinions of the reviewer.

    Is it so hard to think for ourselves; To take in the opinions of others and make informed decisions based on our own intellect and knowledge? Why must every external viewpoint be completely void of identity or sentiment in order for us to come to personal conclusions? What needs to be understood is that, while some reviewers are more respected and/or objective than others, no reviewer is an authority on how we, as individuals, are to behave - whether that behavior concerns which movie we see next, which game we download next or which restaurant we eat at next. Don't get me wrong: Impartiality is extremely important in these fields. But impartiality doesn't and shouldn't have to equal emptiness. If all this site did was take the App Store descriptions and fluff them out to 5 paragraph blog posts without commenting on the quality of the game or providing any sort of recommendation, I'd be gone. That "information" is worthless and a waste of web space.

    ---
    As to the other part of this "concern", I see no reason why TA should be obligated to report on every shitty game that comes out just to appear unbiased to a few 15-year-olds. As far as I'm concerned, TA is doing us all a service by handpicking the cream of the crop and presenting it to us on a silver platter. I have no use for reviews of bad games, and especially no use for reviews of bad games "just because" as has been suggested here. I realize that TA cannot provide me with all the information that I will always want or need, so for some things, I will go to other sources. But what TA does, it does very well, and I see nothing wrong with any of its thoroughly ordinary practices.
     
  20. DaveMc99

    DaveMc99 Well-Known Member

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    FYI Spy Bot is already the #63 Top Game with 10/10 5 Stars in iTunes. A few people other than TA like this game. :)
     

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