Circix - Proof of why Windows Phone is a must for indie devs

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by kinoro, May 1, 2014.

  1. kinoro

    kinoro Well-Known Member

    Mar 5, 2014
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    #1 kinoro, May 1, 2014
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  2. Touchmint

    Touchmint Well-Known Member

    Oct 19, 2011
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    I would love to get started on windows devices. I actually was approached by msft at some point to port a few of my reg apps over but it just didnt seem worth it for a free phone and design support.

    I guess the only thing that bugs me is not knowing how fragmentation works over there. Will I be able to design for iphone and it will work on ipad and reg computers as well? I remember at one time they were trying to do that but not sure if that ever happened or what.
     
  3. slothwerks

    slothwerks Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    I use Unity for Tales of the Adventure Company and the porting cost for Windows Phone is literally zero. I have a couple lines of code to handle the fact that Windows Phone doesn't use Game Center/Google Play, but other than that, the code is 100% identical.

    I do think Windows Phone is an untapped market, and while the revenue just isn't at iOS level, it's true that there is a lot less competition. With multi-platform frameworks like Unity, there's no excuse not to hit every major platform these days. I suspect that the 'ceiling' (the maximum amount an app can make) is a lot lower on Windows Phone, but that the 'floor' (the minimum/average amount an app can make) is probably not too different from iOS. In other words, you'll make way more on iOS if you have a hit, but perform similarly across platforms if your app is 'average'

    Thanks for sharing the numbers!
     
  4. kinoro

    kinoro Well-Known Member

    Mar 5, 2014
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    From a technical point of view, we wrote the WP8 version in C# using the monogame framework. I definitely want to look into using Unity going forward though - maintaining 3 different sets of source code for the same game is exhausting!
     
  5. slothwerks

    slothwerks Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    Can't recommend it highly enough. The whole "write once, run everywhere" paradigm has never been more true with Unity. It even deploys as a Windows 8 Store/Modern UI app, with universal app support (wp8/win 8) coming soon. It's really remarkable what Unity has accomplished.
     
  6. shanadeshana

    shanadeshana New Member

    May 3, 2014
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    I'm interested in porting one of my games. What's a good phone for testing?
     
  7. Xaron

    Xaron Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2013
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    Not only Unity, there are other frameworks as well. For 2d games I still prefer Monkey X which has much more platforms than Unity and is much easier to handle.
     
  8. Moonjump

    Moonjump Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2010
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    Windows Phone 8 doesn't seem to have the really weak phones like Android does, so pretty much anything will do. The Nokia Lumia 520 is a cheap phone that has one important feature of WP8 that you want to cover: The 15:9 aspect ratio screen, which is common.
     
  9. slothwerks

    slothwerks Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    I second the 520. Nokia has a solid majority marketshare, so some kind of Lumia makes sense. The 520 is also a low-end device as far as Windows Phones go (while still being quite captable), and so if it runs great there, it'll run great on higher spec phones. Lastly, it's dirt cheap; ~150 off-contract, and I think you can get it even cheaper sometimes.

    @Xaron: Hadn't heard of that, but that's cool that there are an increasing number of platforms like Unity. fwiw, Unity runs on pretty much everything under the sun as well. I can't think of any major platform not supported by Unity.
     
  10. Xaron

    Xaron Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2013
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    Yep I agree. I love Unity for its simplicity but for 2d only apps I still prefer Monkey-X which is quite powerful and has lots of targets.
     
  11. Planetman

    Planetman Well-Known Member

    May 3, 2014
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    ?

    What is Monkey X?

    How can I learn Unity?
     
  12. Xaron

    Xaron Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2013
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    Monkey-X: http://www.monkey-x.com

    Basically it's a cross compiler. You do your code once and create native target projects for almost every platform out there. For 2d stuff very, very powerful!

    Unity: http://www.unity3d.com

    Well that is a completely different visual editor based approach. Pretty easy to learn and nice to use for 3d and 2d games.
     
  13. slothwerks

    slothwerks Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    To be honest, this is probably a bit involved as an 'intro to Unity' but it does a good job of showing Unity 4.3's support for 2D games. Personally, I use a different solution in Unity, 2D Toolkit, which is available as plug-in on the Unity Asset Store (basically, like an appstore for plugins that enhance Unity's capabilities)

    http://www.raywenderlich.com/61532/unity-2d-tutorial-getting-started

    Unity, by default, is very 'visual'. As a developer, I initially found this a bit off-putting; I like to do things in code. When you become more proficient, you'll start to learn how to do things in code, but also leverage Unity's visual editing as well. I still do most of my stuff in code, but the concept of 'prefabs' in Unity is very powerful/helpful.

    (Sorry for derailing this thread!)
     
  14. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    On Unity3D the visual editor is cool but I would never consider something that isn't code heavy. It is awesome for quickly prototyping.

    Unity 4.5 about to come out and will feature more 2D features and 2D learning materials.
     
  15. Pixelosis

    Pixelosis Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2013
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    Unity 4.x for the 2D still remains hungry on resources though, so you really want to keep an eye on the RAM limitations on smartphones and their use.
    I'd say go with old-school coding. Unity's internal 2D support was added late and leaves something to be desired. 2Dtoolkit might be better though. Solid optimization will require going down into the code. Plus any Unity build will already eat nearly 7~8 Mb even if nearly empty, which is nothing to scoff at on some GSM networks.
     
  16. Xaron

    Xaron Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2013
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    Yep, that's why I use Monkey. I know the name is ... well... but it is the most powerful cross platform solution out there. You always get a native target solution. Anything is possible. An empty project is about 60kb Android APK size (yes, kilobyte).

    Monkey has the following target platforms: HTML5, Flash, Android, iOS, Windows 8, Windows Phone 8, Mac, Ouya, PSM, XNA...

    So for 2d I use Monkey, for 3d I use Unity.
     
  17. kinoro

    kinoro Well-Known Member

    Mar 5, 2014
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    Hey everyone,

    Firstly I've no problems with this thread moving away from the original OP. The current discussion is one that I am currently trying to make my mind up on myself.

    Circix, as you may know, is currently on three platforms and was written three times:
    - ObjC for iOS (with Cocos2d)
    - Java for Android (with libGdx)
    - C# for Windows Phone 8 (with MonoGame)

    For future projects, I would very much like to avoid writing the same code three times for obvious reasons.

    I have looked into using Cocos2d-x but i do not want have to worry about memory management and other extra complexities - it is however looking like the best choice until someone can convince we otherwise.

    Unity is quite a step away from normal coding methods. I have done a couple of tutorials and I've been very impressed at the speed i can create stuff - but the "youth" of the 2d toolset puts me off a present.

    Monkey is something i have been researching heavily recently and I very nearly made my mind up to take the plunge - however, recent news that the creator is going to be ditching it has put me right off - shame.

    Another consideration is to use html5 but i have my reservations there too.

    Therefore, cocos2d-x is looking like the way for now - at least until the 2D toolset of Unity is more mature.
     
  18. Xaron

    Xaron Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2013
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    Don't even think he will ditch it. I know this guy, he's doing this for dekades now (no joke). All he has is a small motivation glitch. His former products are still supported with fixes - for years now!

    All he really lacks is marketing. He's a compiler god, not a marketing guy.
     
  19. kinoro

    kinoro Well-Known Member

    Mar 5, 2014
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    Mark? Is that you? :p

    Ok well you seem very confident and I must admit that I like what I have seen so far. As someone coming from Cocos2d, would you be able to advise on any modules to get me going - the ones batted about seem to be diddy, ignition or phantomengine.
     
  20. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Your comments on unity interest me. Why do you think that? C# of js?

    Unity is so popular because you can code everything and it has the visual editor to increase speed.

    If your looking for the build once, release everywhere then unity is the best and safest solution. The 2D tools aren't young (there were in development for over a year and just got a nice update).
     

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