Games that don't want you to win.

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by nothingtoplay, May 1, 2013.

  1. nothingtoplay

    nothingtoplay New Member

    May 1, 2013
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    When i wanted to start this thread, my initial intention was to name it "Are there any hardcore games for iOS to play?". But then i thought that "hardcore" is not what i actually meant. I'm just looking for a game that does not want you to win. It pretty simple. Most of current mobile games are casual and/or "pay-to-win" titles. They simulate player's success by giving him stupid achievements/bonuses/congratulations/whatever ("I've got an ACHIEVEMENT for completing the tutorial level, oh yeah, I'm great!". Player feels good about his "accomplishment" and wants to play the game, but did the player actually ACHIEVE anything? NO, he just pressed 5 buttons while he had no other choice), or lowering the difficulty to a point where a red-butt baboon could win^W succeed at this "game" (hello Infinity Blade 2) or balancing the game where time invested in the game is much more valuable than players actual skill or decisions he made. I don't even want to start a discussion on Freemium^W Pay-to-Win type of games, whole purpose and game design of which are built around getting as much money as possible from the player (f**k you^W^W Hello Gameloft!).

    So the question is: ARE there still deep games that provide challenge to a player and not to his wallet? Or is it just a lone voice of an old-school gamer that thinks that games should be difficult to be actually fun, as they were before?

    p.s. Two questions i want to answer beforehand:
    1) Yes, i understand that this is a "market" and casual/freemium games bring MUCH more revenue than their counterparts.
    2) No, i can't "just play without buying anything with in-apps", because the reason there are in-apps is that those parts of the game you want to buy something with in-app for are MADE tedious and boring so the players purchase stuff more often. They are not "balanced" game wise.
     
  2. Blackcat1313

    Blackcat1313 Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2013
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    Heart of zarzar on nightmare mode, 'nough said.
     
  3. Sheinfell

    Sheinfell Well-Known Member

    May 14, 2012
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    What exactly are you looking for?
    I can mainly comment on RPGs and strategy games.
    King of Dragon Pass is the first thing I can think of, going by your post.
    For some bloody hard SF realtime strategy, go check out Galactic Conflict and Imperium Galactica 2.
    Ravenmark for fantasy strategy, Spellcraft for CCG.
     
  4. smegly

    smegly Well-Known Member

    Mar 27, 2012
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    It's the deep games that want you to win. What's casual? A lot of games that are accessible to all skill levels are impossible to win and can be hard to be a top scorer in. Anybody can beat an RPG though, given the patience.
     
  5. Exact-Psience

    Exact-Psience Well-Known Member

    Jan 12, 2012
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    The Work-At-Home Guy
    Philippines
    Here are a few of my favorite pure high score games.

    Slayin
    Fireball SE
    Eve of Impact
    The Blocks Cometh
    Mr. Ninja
    Monsters Ate My Condo
     
  6. nothingtoplay

    nothingtoplay New Member

    May 1, 2013
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    #6 nothingtoplay, May 1, 2013
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
    Ok, let me clarify a little how do i define "deep and challenging":
    ...
    Dark Souls
    Dwarf Fortress
    Space Chem
    Organ Trail
    The Quest
    FTL
    Teleglitch
    ...

    They all are very different games, each is one of a kind, but they all have one thing in common - they want to see me fail.

    p.s. I'm not the guy who follows 20 iOS Gaming blogs to test every release, i'm just looking for hidden gems, and because of what i've seen - 99% is not what i'm looking for.
     
  7. Andy C83

    Andy C83 Well-Known Member

    Oct 20, 2010
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    Over the Rainbow
    Super Hexagon.
    Bobbing.
    Eek!

    You will cry. A lot.
     
  8. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

    Jun 16, 2009
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    Any of the roguelikes, or roguelike-likes. Dungeon Plunder and Brogue are the newest ones to spring to mind, but the latter is iPad-only.

    Also 100 Rogues, Sword of Fargoal, Knights of Pen & Paper... all the others...
     
  9. nothingtoplay

    nothingtoplay New Member

    May 1, 2013
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    did a little less than 2 minutes on second difficulty of super haxagon and got bored =/ on PC version tho.
     
  10. saansilt

    saansilt 👮 Spam Police 🚓

    Mar 23, 2013
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    I second Dragon pass. Really tough game.
     
  11. Baron Cappuccino

    Baron Cappuccino Well-Known Member
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    Aug 1, 2011
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    Member-Owner Steampunk Cafe, LLC
    Plainfield, CT
    The Last Rocket hates you and would sooner crash into the sun than see you earn every gear - even beating the game is a throwback to yesteryear.

    Ms. Particle Man is to The Last Rocket what your grandpa's stories are to yours. Ms. Particle Man walks through a foot of snow, uphill, both ways.

    Of all my hard games, those two seem to take a pleasure in their challenge.
     
  12. Add Mos Speedrun to that list...damn that game.
     
  13. ThisIsAUsername

    ThisIsAUsername Well-Known Member

    Dec 26, 2012
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    Yep, King of Dragon Pass.

    Also suggest:

    Great little war game/great big war game (got completely stuck on a level in the first one, maybe it was just me being dumb)

    Bobbing

    Either Wesnoth port, although I have only used Kyle Poole's

    Majesty (maybe not *hard*, but the characters doing whatever they feel like is entertaining and it can be challenging at times when your base is being destroyed and they are wandering around at a far corner of the map)
     
  14. saansilt

    saansilt 👮 Spam Police 🚓

    Mar 23, 2013
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    Umk3 grandmaster is merciless, then again, it is mk.
     
  15. Sheinfell

    Sheinfell Well-Known Member

    May 14, 2012
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    @nothingtoplay:
    You list TheQuest (me likes those too), so I guess you could have a look at the Spiderweb games (Avadon, and especially the Avernums). Avadon is more streamlined and "modern", but in a good way. The Avernums have a very captivating story, and at least I found them challenging and a great experience.
    Baldur's Gate or some of the iOS gamebooks might also be to your liking.

    Someone else mentioned Majesty: Worth a shot, it is fun.

    If you want to try Wesnoth, go for the newer port than Kyle Poole's , it uses a more recent Wesnoth engine.

    If you have a PC, go play Nethack in any version: That game more or less defined "bloody hard" for the genre and is the first dungeoncrawler ever. If "wants to see me fail" is your yardstick, Nethack should be just the thing for you. No idea if there is an original one on iOS.
     
  16. ThisIsAUsername

    ThisIsAUsername Well-Known Member

    Dec 26, 2012
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    There are a few ports, and at least one net hack like game (specifically developed for iOS), but I forget its name.
     
  17. shawnbuddy

    shawnbuddy Well-Known Member

    Jul 10, 2012
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    #17 shawnbuddy, May 2, 2013
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
    Mos Speedrun is the best game of this type I've played on IOS. Everything in the game wants to kill you, some of them even smile big grins when you die. There's also a lot of challenge involved in collecting everything and beating the Speedrun times.

    The Other Brothers, too. The enemies in that one don't screw around.
     
  18. Echoseven

    Echoseven Moderator
    Staff Member Patreon Silver Patreon Gold Patreon Bronze

    Jul 19, 2011
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    The red Skittle
    Dungeon raid. You will fail.


    It's a match-3 roguelike, which is an interesting combination, and it gets progressively harder as you play. Damn good game.
     
  19. Montanx

    Montanx Well-Known Member

    Mar 3, 2012
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    There are plenty of people that achieved a status where they could not die eventually.

    I get frustrated too easy sometimes. Played about 1 min of super hexagon and rage deleted it.
     
  20. kioshi

    kioshi Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2011
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    Brazil
    Games that are hard regardless of genre:

    Space Tripper
    Fangz
    Meganoid 2 (haven't played the first much)
    Mutant Mudds
     

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