Hi guys, I wanted to post this here to let fans of the game, as well as other gamers and developers, know what's going on. This might affect the future of Alien Space Retro as well as other retro-styled games in the AppStore. What's happening is that on Thursday I received a letter from Atari (forwarded to me by Apple) demanding that my game be taken down from the AppStore for copyright violation. They claim that I'm infringing on their ASTEROIDS copyright, whatever that means exactly. They didnt specify whether there are specific elements in the game, or if it's the entire game itself, that they claim infringes. However I do know that Alien Space Retro is a completely different game from Asteroids. And, while the game is obviously inspired by such classic vector-graphics games as Space Wars and Asteroids, I think it's clear to anyone that it's a different and unique game. Also of interest, Atari seems to have recently been sending out letters to websites, for example: http://www.asteroids.co.uk/atari I guess they claim this website cant use the word "asteroids". Granted I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure "asteroids" is a word that people can use, especially if they have a website that tracks asteroids in the inner solar system. They are also attacking those who would be their strongest supporters, the retro gaming community: http://gamepolitics.com/2011/08/23/atari-lawyers-take-aim-retro-community-developers I havent looked further, but I'd bet there are other examples of this behavior recently. I also dont see what Atari hopes to accomplish with this. Is my game such a threat to them? They surely cant expect to get any money from me, since I make a very small amount from the game and I'm just a one-person developer. My feeling is that whether in the right or not, they believe that they can just bully me into pulling my game from the AppStore because they dont think I can defend myself. Personally, it's sad and frustrating to see this happening, regardless of whether it's happening to me or to another developer. I would like to think that game studios and publishers would want to embrace the customers, fans, and indie developers who are their most loyal and vocal supporters. We are a community that can get stronger and help each other to grow, but not if we attack and undermine each other like this. Alien Space Retro is an homage to those classic games from the late 70's and early 80's, it's not a threat to them. In doing this, Atari puts itself firmly in the camp with companies like Sony who regularly dismiss and attack it's fanbase. Atari needs to pay attention to recent history. For now, my game will remain in place, but I cant say what will happen if Atari continues to pressure Apple. I dont know what Apple's policy is, but I have hopes that they will do the right thing. Thank you, Owens Developer, Alien Space & Alien Space Retro
Wow, That is just not right and very sad and frustrating. I don't see how that could stick. Asteroids? Really? I don't see the connection at all. I am going to guess that they saw the "spaceship" and then said "Hey, that is asteroids!". As for Apple's policy when it comes to copyright infringement, it is take down now, let it settle itself later. I really don't want to see Alien Space Retro taken down from the appstore, but knowing Apple, that is what will happen, unless they changed their practices after Jobs left. I wish you all the best Owens, and pray that this will all just go away without you having to do anything.
You think they'd go after all those Llamasoft games that have stock copied (or very close) Atari (2600) asteroids, Berzerk Robots, etc... instead. They're probably after your ship design, which does look like the asteroids ship a bit. Your asteroids look nothing like the asteroids in the arcade game.
I don't see why they would suddenly be doing this - unless they want to release something of their own. How long has ASR been on the App Store? App Shopper says just over 2 months...
Well, without getting into the merits of the action they've taken, Atari is probably - and quite legitimately - seeing similarities to the original game in screenshots like this one from ASR: For comparison, Atari's original Asteroids game: Are they pursuing Alien Space as well, or just Alien Space Retro?
Maybe they should just change the ship and maybe make the asteroids a bit different... they do look VERY similar
I'm fairly certain it's the visual element. The game icon, player ship, and the asteroids in game. I doubt Atari even played the game as that's irrelevant to them if they believe they have a case on the point of visuals. If/when you enter into negotiations with them, keep that in mind. I doubt gameplay is the issue at all. Also, yes, if past history is a guide, Apple will simply remove the app and let you and Atari sort things out between yourselves.
Yes, about 2 months. Just Alien Space Retro. I'll grant there are similarities. There's really only so many ways to draw a simplified outlined rock. As far as the ship, mine is sort of arrowhead shaped, while the one in Asteroids was an "A" shape. And, both are similar to the ship in Space War, which predates Asteroids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Wars Luckily they didnt. They emailed me and asked me to tell them if I'm infringing, to which I replied saying that I'm not. As far as just generally similarities in games, there's always bound to be some similarities in elements from different games. I dare anyone to look at screenshots of Battlefield 3 and Modern Warfare 3 and tell me which game is which. I dont see how Atari could claim to have a copyright on an outlined triangle-shaped spaceship.
The new Atari are known to be legal bullies. They work by intimidating small companies by using close association that holds close to zero legal weight. See this thread on AtariAge; Get some helpful legal advice from credible sources; Do NOT use legal advice taken from an internet forum that could compromise your business; Do not bend or show weakness to Atari. My own personal opinion is that your product does not infringe on any of Atari's trademarks. Obviously, this is not legal advice and I am not a lawyer.
Hmmm... The dev from Asteroid2012 got the same letter, but then they retracted it. Same thing might happen here... But this is just wrong. Hate to see this kind of thing happen.
I looked at that asteroids website and they just had a little "legal note" on the bottom stating that they are in no way sponsored by or related to atari. You could probably just put a statement similar to that in the games description, something along the lines of "this game is in no way based off of or borrows visual material from the atari game 'Asteroids' and is based on retro vector graphics in general. All visuals were created by me and are unique to this game only" Something like that would probably do the trick. I'm not a lawyer, but I can't see how they could legally do anything after something like that is stated as nothing in the game is actually directly copying from their game, it's only similar.
It occured to me that it would be good to point out that this screenshot of Asteroids is not really from the original game. Looks more like from one of the many, many clones. I think this is important because the asteroids in the original Asteroids were actually a more distinct concave shape, significantly different from mine. If you really compare videos of the games I think it's pretty clear how different they are:
Try to see it from their perspective: Atari is a company that went from the leading brand in video games with their dominant line of consoles and millions in game sales, to a mostly irrelevant one with little to show for it beside pumping out 'anniversary' versions of decades-old games that long ago recouped their cost. If they don't resort to copyright trolling, what else is there for them? Coming up with new ideas? And it is hardly Atari's fault that the smartypants developers who used to work for them just had to name their games with such general terms. It was a different time! Our companies simply had not fully realized the value in grabbing everything they could and screw everybody else. But now it's 2011 and we know better! It means they have a copyright on the game, of which yours is similar. There's no question Alien Space Retro is a ripoff both in design and gameplay, but that alone does not constitute infringement any more than Nintendo can claim a game featuring a guy who runs and jumps infringes Super Mario Bros. They cannot copyright a triangle or crudely drawn polygons, and they cannot copyright the purely conceptual _style_ of the game beyond a point. You might help yourself by removing the trademark Asteroids from the app description. And slap a bunch of "too hot for Atari!" banners all over it and milk it for some sales (not really--do not attempt this) That is a great example of just how shameless Atari's legal department must be--Keller seems to be proposing that their trademark overrules the existence of natural phenomenon. So if Atari makes a game called "Earth", do we all have to vacate the planet? What if they make a game featuring a genome? Must I forfeit my DNA? It's clear that they wanted the domain, but there are repurcussions to this sort of bad-faith intimidation. Knowing the state of copyright enforcement today, it's likely they never even bothered to look at the site before firing off the letter. I almost wish they would pursue it, just to see them get slapped down by a judge. Of course it is: you took their idea and ran with it. So if they want to put Asteroids on the app store, they would have to compete. Competition is very anti-American: we prefer bludgeoning people into compliance with one sided laws and the we-say-so attitude that has endeared us to the rest of the world for centuries.
Dib just earned 10x to the third power (on iPod, sorry) uber k points... Anyway... I just bought the Lost In Space Mode... Just in case it does get pulled... Wanted to somehow show support other than just sitting here saying Atari (circa 2000+) sucks. Really wish you the best of luck with this BS move.
Thank you! I really appreciate all the support guys, and just generally everyone on this forum has been super supportive of Alien Space and Retro since they came out. Also, I know a lot of people have been suggesting that I make changes to try to avoid problems with Atari. But, I have to say that I wont do that unless there's absolutely no other choice. It's kind of a matter of principle. You cant appease people making unreasonable demands, they will only make new unreasonable ones later.
This is correct; I've changed the original image to one from the actual game, as follows: The irony here is that the ships in this case basically are both the same shape, unlike the first picture I had linked. The fact that the video for your game ends with the exact quote "It's like Asteroids on steroids" also shows that you clearly acknowledge the gameplay similarities and inspiration. Now, whether or not Atari can - or will - do anything is another matter entirely.
I don't think you should alter the game--just remove the trademarked name Asteroids from the app description. The only real issue Atari has to stand on would be whether your game could reasonably be misconstrued for their copyrighted work, and marketing it with their brand in your description will not help you. Incidentally, I opted to buy Alien Space Retro (despite my longtime distaste for Asteroids) because 1) hopefully the more it sells, the more reluctant Apple will be to pull it, and 2) because seriously: #### you, Atari. You just made somebody a sale for the sake of your frivolous threats, and I will be happy to support any other game you attempt to destroy.
Wow I honestly thought Atari was classier than this. I guess they need every sale they can get now from that Atari greatest hits pack that works with the iCade. Anyways I opted to show support by buying the non-retro version as that appealed to me more. Looks like you are getting a bunch of sales you would otherwise not have gotten thanks to Atari! Good luck
