would you accept offer from a big publisher?

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by Bmamba, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. Bmamba

    Bmamba Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2009
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    Game dev
    Canada
    What are the advantage of being published by big publisher?If a big company ask to publish your game would you accept?

    I understand they would pay for marketing... but how much % do they take? those it worth it???

    Any experience to share?
     
  2. AssyriaGameStudio

    AssyriaGameStudio Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    On an iPhone game typically 20%-40%, if it's less than 20% then chances are there ripping you off as they wont have a high enough percentage for it to be worth their marketing spend. And over 40% there ripping you off by taking too high a percentage.

    Most have a good relationship with Apple and will help get you featured (if you don't have a good relationship/ any relationship with Apple yourselves). So theres that...

    I would also say the larger publishers really know what works and what doesn't and have made all the mistakes already; so if you approach them with a puzzle game, then they have probably have published a number of puzzle games in the past and will really know where to best situate their marketing spend, and where to focus their PR efforts to maximise revenue etc...

    Up until now we haven't used a publisher. I am considering it for our next game however; and am in discussions with a few publishers about this.
     
  3. FredrikReinius

    FredrikReinius Well-Known Member

    Jun 7, 2010
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    Head of Digital Marketing
    Stockholm
    I work for a publisher so I'm probably a bit biased ;)

    There are definitely advantages of having a publisher (marketing, know-how, etc) but it's not for everyone. In my opinion it depends on what type of game you are making and how well you think you can handle marketing etc yourself.
     
  4. NickFalk

    NickFalk Well-Known Member

    I've been a iPhone developer for nearly two years and I have yet to see any returns what-so-ever.

    [musicPlayer playSadViolins];
    [self cryLikeABaby];


    I am also currently demonstrating, yet again, that I know nothing about advertising.

    The App Store is an extremely competitive market place and the share number of titles means that the majority of developers won't see big returns on their investments. Doing OK'ish is probably good enough, though, and as long as you can keep your head above water you can keep the dream alive that you will be the one with the next sleeper-hit (Doodle Jump, Canabalt etc.)

    The way I see it, if you can get a contract with a publisher you won't be able to cash in big time if you get that one monster hit, but you might get a somewhat healthier return on the titles that would not otherwise have made it...
     
  5. RevolvingDoor

    RevolvingDoor Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2009
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    @NickFalk:

    Consider this: You make a mega hit, something truly comparable to Doodle Jump. You go through a publisher who takes a good 40%, but in exchange, that publisher helps your hit make its way up the charts, and consequently you get more sales. Let's say that an experienced publisher does twice as good a job as you would have done yourself -- your hit game is twice the success.

    Your profits without the publisher (after Apple takes their cut: ) 100%
    Your profits with the publisher: (100%-40%)x2 = 120%

    When you think about the fact that the publisher has much, much more marketing experience than your run-of-the-mill indie dev, and probably has better marketing resources at his disposal, the odds of that effort at least doubling your sales doesn't seem terribly unrealistic.

    Just something to think about. :)
     
  6. NickFalk

    NickFalk Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I still believe that if you have that one run-away hit that catches the eye of the press it is the one case where you really don't need a publisher.

    I do believe however that a good publisher could help you get from "good game, not getting enough attention" to "rather successful title". If it help you feel better I believe the second scenario is the most likely. ;)
     
  7. Kyle Poole

    Kyle Poole Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2009
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    Also consider that publishers only want to publish quality titles. They know what will sell, and what is worth their marketing $$$. Don't forget the power of cross-promotions like "Other Apps By..." that will help your published app get a lot more exposure than it could on its own
     
  8. Mr Qwak

    Mr Qwak Well-Known Member

    May 23, 2010
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    Also consider the longer term implications..

    If you go it alone, you will have plenty of opportunity to learn and to develop marketing know-how, and to grow your press contact-list, all of which will help with your future products..
     
  9. Stroffolino

    Stroffolino Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    Apr 28, 2009
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    Software Engineer
    Pennsylvania
    I think the whole idea of using a publisher is a bit strange, considering that traditionally their main purpose has been distribution - the one thing Apple does for us.

    A publisher is no substitute for having an appealing app, and the fact that publishers are picky makes it tricky to judge the value they add. If you compare a random set of games pushed out through big-name publishers with a random set of games that were self-published, chances are that the publisher-associated titles will do (much) better, but is it because of marketing magic, clout, and/or publisher feedback during the dev process, or the fact that the publisher was just more selective to start with?

    There have been examples of games distributed through publishers that have flopped, as well as games distributed without publishers (Daredevil Dave!) that have soared. Once an app has achieved a good chart position, the visibility benefits from the AppStore itself take over.

    If you go through a publisher, you'll be all but guarenteed to get timely front page coverage at review sites like TA. This can make all the difference at that critical juncture when an app is first released, but needs a critical number of concentrated downloads in order to first chart.

    But if you truly believe in your app, and think it needs that extra boost at launch, doing extended beta testing, buying ad space, and (if needed) hiring someone to help with promotion isn't all that expensive.
     
  10. d0nskii

    d0nskii New Member

    Jun 14, 2010
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    Cross promotion is incredibly important in the app world, IMO. It's so easy to get lost in the massive sea of apps, with over 200,000 right now and 350,000 by the end of the year. While publishers can help you gain popularity and ultimately profit, new startups offer a similar service for free. From what I understand, you just implement an SDK ("More Games") in your app, and in return get featured in the "more games" section of other apps.
     
  11. jak56

    jak56 Well-Known Member

    i think cross promotion really helps.
    if an app looks good, yes, i'm interested, but when i see it's released by chilligo, i know it's got a standard of quality, which makes me more inclined on purchasing it.
     
  12. Frand

    Frand Well-Known Member

    If you can write polite and informative emails to the relevant websites.
    If you can make a marketing plan to release screenshots and youtube clips.
    If your game is interesting enough to grab headlines on iPhone review sites.
    Then there is very little a publisher can do for you on the App Store.

    It's all just work, and you can choose if you want to do it yourself or want someone else to do it. If you pick someone else, your confidence in the quality of your app must determine what you consider their service to be worth. And developers are often quick to devalue their own work.
     
  13. Astraware

    Astraware Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2010
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    Games Studio
    UK
    I think that's the key - it's whether you just want to design the game and code, or if you want full ownership of the project from start to finish. We've published games for other developers in the past who simply didn't want to do PR & Marketing, they just enjoyed creating the games but wanted someone else to handle the post-development work like QA, submission and marketing. Every developer is different.
     
  14. Mondae

    Mondae Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2010
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    Perv, why do you care?
    Wait so it is not like 100%-30%(Apple)-40%(Publisher)=30%(You)? They take instead 28% of your profits instead like: 100%-30%=70%_____70-28%=42%?
     
  15. Frand

    Frand Well-Known Member

    Note, this post assumes a situation where the developer has made the game without funding from the publisher:

    Publishers take however much you agree to. Never accept a standard publishing contract without negotiations.

    Usually publishers will want to hold on to as much money as they can for as long as they can, it's how their business works.

    Expect to see initial contracts drafts with a 40/60 split from net revenues, with publisher recouping marketing costs and other costs from the money they receive from Apple before sending you a sales report, which gives you the right to invoice them for the sum they report. Then the contract will state a payment schedule of 30-60 days after they've received your invoice. Some publishers don't require you to invoice, but still add their own payment schedules, so you'll get your money weeks or months after the publisher has received it from Apple.

    Given that a publisher's marketing efforts tend to be limited to couple of web banners on launch week, a possible magazine ad and a single marketing assistant posting screenshots you've grabbed and trailers you've created over to the websites you could email yourself... their actual costs for publishing would be in the range of a few thousand dollars.

    So think hard what the development costs of your game have amounted up to, what the actual costs of the publisher are to perform their service, and then consider how you want to split the income from the sales of your game.

    Also make sure when you negotiate the contract to get the publisher to commit to publishing activity and a promotion budget in writing. What you as a developer want is constant publicity and improved long-term visibility. Unless you get the publisher to agree to a steady promotion campaign over the product lifetime, you'll only see effort at launch followed by nothing at all. At that point you've only agreed to lose a share of your revenue every month for what benefit?

    Remember, if you self-publish and take care of your marketing, the money from game sales comes from Apple directly to your bank account, every month. Not to mention most iDevice gaming websites are much happier discussing directly with the developers instead of publisher marketing assistants who don't really know anything about the game they're promoting.
     
  16. MrBlue

    MrBlue Well-Known Member

    Sep 3, 2008
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    iPhone Developer
    Excellent post Frand.

    Just want to add that this is true for all services as well.

    About a year ago, a publisher approached one of my other entities and offered their services for 20% of the cut. I managed to negotiate it down to 10%, but eventually decided to go at it alone. I couldn't see enough value in their services. It varies from game to game so who knows what they're offering now.
     
  17. ultimo

    ultimo Well-Known Member

    May 5, 2009
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    How much do Banners @ TA cost?
    Ur Banner's are awesome btw :)
     
  18. NickFalk

    NickFalk Well-Known Member

    Let me put it like this: I now have a wooden leg, but at least one of my arms is still intact. Just send a mail to [email protected] for the going rates and availability. Oh, and thanks! I'm fairly satisfied myself but fear the banners' entertainment value are probably higher than their commercial value. :eek:
     
  19. BlueSolarSoftware

    BlueSolarSoftware Well-Known Member

    Oct 9, 2009
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    iPhone Developer
    Austin
    If you're short on cash, that's one point to consider. Most companies have accounts payable A/P and accounts receivable A/R. It means companies can play accounting tricks to delay payment to you, or book sales that they haven't been paid for. It's not something iphone devs have to worry about since apple pays on time. But if you deal with any other company, you have to watch out for that.
     
  20. Grumps

    Grumps Well-Known Member
    Patreon Indie

    Feb 2, 2009
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    iOS Game Developer
    If you're lucky and you think your game have a good shot in success, you can always publish yourself and still make it to the top. So what happen when you're not featured by Apple or first week of sales didn't really pick up?

    What could have been done for your game if you had the spending power of a publisher to maximize it's potential? You should totally signup with one if you're offered a reasonable deal.
     

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