Hey Gentlemen, Casual is Fast Food. Fast to produce, cheap to get, fast to eat and tastes good. Premium is a good restaurant. It takes time to make, time to eat, is more expensive and tastes awesome. The AppStore is 90% McDonalds. It's well known that most of the people buy apps based on the charts. Although Apple altered the chart-algorithm to be less sales-dependent (a good move, imo), the .99cent thing dominates all way long. I think the App Store has to give premium games a greater chance to gain visibility. The App Store has to be more like a luxurious restaurant. Of course, on a platform that's not primarily focused on gaming, casual games find a broader audience then on those, which are made for gaming. However, the visibility problem for premium apps because of the charts persists and that's bad for all of us who want to enjoy a really good dinner, from time to time. I know that here at touch arcade, most members don't decide what to buy based on the charts. But although TA is the major community, we're still a minority of the iOS-consumers. That's why I thought about a "Premium Games / Apps" Section in the Appstore. An easy solution, in my opinion. Like, all Games that cost more than 10$ are visible in this Premium Section, too. So People, who want to get an awesome dinner, can get this directly in the premium section. This leads to a greater visibility for big value productions and gives developers more confidence to develop big games, that break through the casual clouds, up in the sky. What do you think? Maybe we can discuss a solution and do a petition. Anyway, it's damn interesting to know what you think about this. regards!
And this is the dead of the poor indies companies. This is the same idea as 2 years ago and Apple won't really care. For Apple, the "Premium" is the featured / What's Hot / ... games.
I agree with you, Vetasoft. A premium section in the appstore would encourage indie devs to give their games higher price tags, which is very important for them to survive. What do you mean with "the same idea 2 years ago", though? The "featured" and "whats hot" stuff is good for new games to get visibility, but it does not help against the .99cent-war that dominates the app store.
haha, i don't really like to go to it, either, but it seems they made me addictive when i was a child every once in a while i totally enjoy it This said, I'm also a friend of casual games. But I want high value, high quality ones. And having to price the game at 99cents causes most developers to make the 1000ths touch-whack-a-mole game instead of something truly unique and original!
I quite like the McChickens sir. But on a serious note, the "Premium" section of the AppStore, i.e, the section with games hitting $10.00+ a game, was suggested a very long time ago, heck, I can distinctly remember a time in 2009 when this same argument was brought up on these forums. I was a lurker up until recently, and found the discussion quite enjoyable.
Apple probably feels it is not in their interest to promote premium gaming in any shape or form. Their current model is very profitable and entertains the consumer impression of "Wow, so many new titles all the time!". They like to keep things looking "fresh & pristine" and therefore fool people into thinking them as "state of the art" simply by shuffling the front shelves once in a while. It's working quite well too.
Well, I disagree. There are lots and lots of great apps/games on the IOS. If someone can't find them, maybe the problem is someone is not searching well enough. Or, doesn't know where to look? Or has not much experience with it! Also, lots of times, the amount charged has nothing to do with how good, well made, or fun a game is. There's free ones that are so much better than other ones that someone charges $6.00 for! The point is, "An expensive game does not a good game make". Do you think $10 means it's better in itself, or 'premium'? OR would quality be what makes a game 'premium'? See, I beg to differ here. You compare the IOS with 'cheap' McDonalds? Maybe you should quit coming here for what you consider a 'fast fix', and just stick with console games 'Spago's' you're happy to spend $60 for, get tired of quickly, then accept your $15 in trade so you can spend another $60 on another one and repeat the process? Among the reasons people appreciate the app store is bang-for-your-buck, selection, and also not having software. As a gamer, the notion that devs should charge more for their games here is absurd! Stick with your PS3, XBOX, or whatever and don't ever come back here if that's how you feel! Lots of us are fine with this restaurant and the food they serve! Don't come here and try to make them change the menu 'cause you don't like it! You have choices of where to eat! Enjoy your food!
I often hear of criticism defending the current App Store model standing on the following points: "premium titles" (meaning constituted of deep, substantial gameplay) are currently available in sufficient quantity, therefore there is no deficit of non-casual titles; gamers unsatisfied with the current ratio of premium/casual titles are unreasonable; their best interest clearly resides with per-title prices resting at the lower part of the scale; the iOS gaming ecosystem is better without premium games. Innovation can be harnessed exclusively and sufficiently from casual-focused titles. Do I have this right? I'm trying to understand the opposite viewpoint. It's hard for me to picture how someone couldn't see the long-term harm from the current pro-casual bias inherent in the iTunes Store.
I think console games and casual games both serve their functions. Having played both I find myself playing far more iPhone games then anything else. I simply do not have the time to play anything else and I can play my iPhone games on the train, bus, etc. Not sure if a "Premium" category or feature will ever happen as who would determine what makes it premium. For that matter, what determines quality? Are professional graphics and a large price tag the only way to determine if something is of quality? I would think anything fun that is not overly buggy is high quality but that could also just be my perception and determination of game quality.
Nice discussion. I'd like to see larger companies taking iOS gaming more seriously. If that means raising the bar (in file size as well, unfortunately) a bit, I'm all for it. EDIT: about the "premium" category: There is already a listing in iTunes for "Big Name Games" with sub-categories for "Blockbuster Franchises" as well as "iOS Originals." There, you can already find everything from the FF series to RR2, Deadspace and Infinity Blade, etc.
Interesting, hadn't seen that page before. I don't believe it's anywhere near sufficient to counter-balance the sheer momentum and heavy popular demand for more casual titles, but I can't say Apple is denying them anymore.
This discussion seems rather odd to me. In no other industry is there a "premium" section that I can think of. There is no "premium" district in my city where all the high-end restaurants are located (sure there are better parts of the city, but that's not a marketplace). The large number of casual games is because there are significantly more casual game customers. Even if we assume that half of iDevice users are core gamers, that's still not as many customers as you would reach by developing for the DS and PSP or for consoles. In reality I'd say that maybe 10% of iDevice users are core gamers, which makes a developers potential audience 30 million consumers, which is smaller than any console or handheld on the market today. As the number of consumers grows so will the number of developers, and that will happen organically over time. If a premium section were added in order to get more visibility for games over $10, all that would happen is you'd have a lot of people developing mediocre games and selling them for $10 so that they could be featured in the premium section. The barrier of entry to the App Store is so low that there will always be a lot of mediocrity on the App Store, and that's not a bad thing since it also allows for a lot more great indie games. Bigger budget games will be made once there are more consumers of bigger budget games.
Letting the market decide the outcome of a category of products often leads to mediocre results. Apple themselves had to fight against consumer inclination in the early 2000's (the big grey PC boxes). Truth is, if you want quality in a undervalued market segment, you have to gently guide your target market up to it. I personally believe that a large percentage of current casual-minded gamers could be up-converted to more serious ones profit-wise, sustaining games consisting of deeper gameplay than Angry Birds without falling into yesterday's hardcore diluted complexity.
I agree with Ghouls'R'us. Of course, it's obvious that the iOS Ecosystem has a large casual audience and it's hard to define a game as premium. However, I think Angry Birds and Final Fantasy are not the same league, and as long as customers mainly buy games because of the (mostly) sales-based charts, Angry Birds will always dominate. It's true that users who really want to play "premium" games can search for them, and maybe those games get featured by Apple. But you always have to think of the masses. I think there are lots of potential "premium" customers out there, and these people have to be addressed. Finally, "premium" does not mean "not-casual" for me. Casual games are easy to pick up and play. But they can also be high-value productions with lots of content. They can also be premium and worth 10$ (think of Plants vs. Zombies) Anyway, great discussion guys! Your opinions are very interesting
...but my App Store refuses to dispense 2/$1 handheld fried apple pies. What am I missing? By the way comparing things to McDonalds is real original.
iOS gamers aren't interested in premium games. This is the one true flaw that will always prevent the iPhone/iPod Touch from taking over the overall gaming marketplace. iOS gamers are cheap. They want cheap games. If you offered them truly premium games, they would (more times than not) spit on them. It's not .99c apps that dominate appstore sales, by the way. It's freemium games that own those charts. There's nothing here I haven't said a million times over. It will not change. I will always own an iPhone for purposes beyond gaming, but I've moved on from the iPhone as a gaming platform. I don't want cheap, shallow games with no polish and little depth. I want a full-fledged gaming experience. Just because you shine a turd and sell it to me for .99c or try giving it to me for free, doesn't mean I have to download it. Lipstick on the pig doesn't make the pig any more attractive. I'm not wasting my time on craaps and $300 "freemium" games, but to each their own. I wish the industry would change. But it hasn't and it won't. Companies are simply evolving around people's cheapness instead of trying to challenge their cheapness. I play the PSP more than any handheld device, for now. Occassionally, the 3DS. Eventually, the PS-Vita. I actually desire legitimate console-quality games (of which, on the iOS, there are none) in my pocket and I'm willing to pay $50 for them, if they are exceptional.
dumaz1000 (haha!), I think on the contrary, there are surely Plenty of people willing to pay handsomely for quality titles. And referring to quality games on iOS and saying there are "none" is a drastic exaggeration. And to say you have simply given up on iOS devices as a gaming platform is likely an exaggeration also, considering you are on TA posting in game threads and pushing your point that iOS gamers are rather cheap in comparison to other platform's consumers. In short, I agree with you for the most part. We share the same desire but with separate views.
Umm... Apple was successful exactly because the market decided the outcome of a category of products. They innovated and created new product categories while at the same time making premium products in existing categories that consumers wanted. Premium content on the App store will happen through innovation the same way. I can't think of any industry that has been successful through telling consumers what to buy.
