The idevice is not a serious games platform

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Lounge' started by markx2, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. markx2

    markx2 Well-Known Member

    Dec 28, 2008
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    And never will be until Apple enable games saves. I'm not talking restores, I'm talking about being able to save game progress for individual games at any time to a computer. For as long as Apple deem this unnecessary they do not take games (or any other apps) seriously and if they do not, why should we?

    And if I cannot save game state - something which would not be tolerated at all on any other game platform - that also reduces the value of games.
     
  2. Prab

    Prab Moderator
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    I was expecting Apple to fix this in 3.0, but I guess their priorities were hooked on push notification. Hopefully we will see this in 3.1. I doubt Apple is unaware of this problem. They are probably just ignoring it for the time being.
     
  3. Fleabag323

    Fleabag323 Well-Known Member

    Dec 19, 2008
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    Let's see, any other gaming platform, if you wipe its hard drive of the game, like you are doing when you delete a game from your iDevice, your progress is gone! I don't see the problem. Just don't delete games that you have progress in. The only reason it doesn't back it up is because you delete it manually, so iTunes assumes that you don't want your progress anymore.
     
  4. Prab

    Prab Moderator
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    Well, but I think its good to have the option of keeping the gamesave, but not the game itself. I am using an 8GB and its hard to carry around so many games whose level updates will only come 3-6 months later. I rather use the space to carry more music around with me :)
     
  5. markx2

    markx2 Well-Known Member

    Dec 28, 2008
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    This is not the same.

    Every other game platform allows individual game saves. Apple does not yet.
     
  6. abbad0n

    abbad0n Well-Known Member

    Jul 24, 2008
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    Well then, why don't you contact the game manufacturers to develop the ability to export/import game saves. I've seen other apps (mostly utilities) setup a web (or ftp/ssh/etc.) based import/export system for their data. They don't have to wait on Apple. They just need enough push from users to implement it. This isn't something you can blame completely on apple. Or even all on Apple.
     
  7. markx2

    markx2 Well-Known Member

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    Until APPLE create an easy to use system then they don't give a damn.
    Why should each developer have to re-invent the wheel when the API could make everything so much easier?

    This is an Apple issue.
     
  8. Prab

    Prab Moderator
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    Since game saves affect all games, then it will be more elegant and effective for the OS to implement a solution instead of having each game developer develop their own solution.
     
  9. Maythius

    Maythius Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2008
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    Yes I too was hoping for this feature. It would be nice to not spend ten minutes debating whether or not I should delete a game to save space, because then all that time I spent on that game is lost..... it's very depressing:(
     
  10. nizy

    nizy Well-Known Member

    Come on, seriously? Not a serious game platform because of save files not being backed up to a PC/Mac? Thats just pathetic - stop bitching about something so trivial and get a god-damn life.

    p.s. if you are so concerned about game saves, don't be such a cheap b*****d and buy a 16GB or 32GB iDevice.

    p.p.s most games on the app store are pretty small and can be completed in a few hours anyway!
     
  11. abbad0n

    abbad0n Well-Known Member

    Jul 24, 2008
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    Well Apple has all along called this an iPod with a phone (with other capabilities), so you're right about them not caring that much about it. For them, it's mostly a multimedia device.

    If you're looking at it as only a game device, then that's your problem. It might help if you either contacted Apple directly, or left messages on their forums about developing a common API for use.

    And I still don't see why someone else can't develop a code library independent of Apple that other game programmers could use for their save data. Unlike most other game "devices", the iPhone/Touch can be programmed with external access that allows programs/games to export/import such data independently.

    As an example, an iPhone app called XpenseTracker uses as library called SyncDocs to import/export it's data via an external program you run from your desktop (mac/win/*nix) that is Java based. This is found on sourceforge by the way (see links on the page linked to above). There are solutions out there, they just have to be used by the game creators.
     
  12. markx2

    markx2 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 16gb thanks :)

    If game developers want to create games that have depth and require a player to save their progress in-game then players should expect a way to be able to save their progress for backup purposes at the absolute least.
    I don't care if the next idevice has 10TB of flash memory, this is still a requirement.

    And for the record, I'm not a cheap b*****d. I am being practical.
     
  13. markx2

    markx2 Well-Known Member

    Dec 28, 2008
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    Look at it this way.

    Apple do ONE job of creating a way to backup files during a save/sync.
    or
    Every developer who wants to help their users has to reinvent the same wheel.

    One company: Apple
    Developers? thousands.
     
  14. abbad0n

    abbad0n Well-Known Member

    Jul 24, 2008
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    Apple does have this when you sync. it's just that it works on all apps/games/utils/etc. From what I got on your earlier posts was that you wanted to save your data even if you removed the game from the idevice. That is not the same thing. Apple has done its bit for programs that are on the device when you restore a backup. Not for when you delete the program. That sounds more like the responsibility of the game developer to me. See my previous response above for an example of how a developer could do it.
     
  15. markx2

    markx2 Well-Known Member

    Dec 28, 2008
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    It does it for all - exactly, and that is what is wrong. It should allow per-app or create an easy way for all devs to implement a way through iTunes to save the data separately.

    And if you remove the app after saving a backup of your data and you later replace the app it should offer the option to pull that backup back into you can continue.
     
  16. markx2

    markx2 Well-Known Member

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    And the reason they might not? Because it provides a way to get data into the device and use it. The C64 emulator found that to be too much.
     
  17. abbad0n

    abbad0n Well-Known Member

    Jul 24, 2008
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    You're talking about an emulator, not a game. According to Apple, emulators are not allowed since they can run other programs. If it's just data, you should have no problem importing/exporting all you like. Did you look at my post above where I talk about SyncDocs? That's an option other programs can use to export/import save data outside of the standard Apple backup. It is possible that Apple considers its work done when it does it's own backup. Any others will be dependent on the individual developer.

    This is my last post on the issue. I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on this. Good luck.
     
  18. Kumulus

    Kumulus Well-Known Member

    Nov 1, 2008
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    lol, if you consider the iphone a serious game platform then it is NOT trivial to not have a decent backup system. i just updated to 3.0, restored from the backup and boom, everything was gone.

    this is not a discussion about the meaning of the iphone in context of life and the universe but it is a discussion dealing with the iphone as a game platform.

    so do us all a favor and put your opinion to a place where the sun never shines.
     
  19. Boardumb

    Boardumb Administrator
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    Ah man, I thought this was gonna be another one of THOSE threads, the type where people defend to the death whether or not the iDevices are actual game systems. But I actually agree with the topic the OP brought up. I don't think it has any bearing on legitimizing the iDevice as a gaming system, but it's annoying nonetheless to not have save slots for the games on my iPod. I keep games on there that I might not have played in months, just so I don't lose the progress or high scores in them. I'm constantly swapping games in and out, based on what I'm currently playing, but I hate having to keep certain games on there even if I'm not planning on playing them. Plus, it's annoying if I want to start a new game, or my girlfriend wants to start HER own game, and can't cause there's only one available save per game. It's just one of those things that seems like it should be a no-brainer, especially with how much games have blown up on the app store since it's inception, but sadly I doubt Apple will have any real solution to this any time soon. Can't I just get 64 gigs and unlimited pages of apps? I'd be satisfied with that!
     
  20. spiffyone

    spiffyone Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2008
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    Yeah...I had my usual canned responses ("mobile platform viable for games, not a portable game system" etc. etc. etc.) all ready cut and ready for pasting ;)

    And I agree. I, like you, wouldn't have phrased it the way TC did, but the base sentiment is something to which I would absolutely agree.

    The lack of being able to back up game save states is annoying...especially when there's the specter of crashes looming over our heads (only happened to me once, and thankfully the memory wasn't scrapped).

    I'd say this is something that Apple needs to implement into the SDK. It should not be left up to 3rd party solutions like save states saved on developer servers or what have you (like the Aurora Feint fiasco). As a temporary solution, though, and one that avoids uploading of data to developer servers I do wonder why iTouch/Phone developers haven't gone old school.

    Whatever happened to the idea of password saves? Why can't that be used? Annoying, yeah, but less so than losing all progress in cases of crashes. Hey...it worked for Metroid and a bunch of other games on NES.
     

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