Designing dilemmas : any solution?

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by NAFNA GAMES, Feb 26, 2014.

  1. NAFNA GAMES

    NAFNA GAMES Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2013
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    do stuff during the day. indie developer at night.
    Barcelona.
    Dear TA community,

    one of the things i find fascinating about game design and development are the 1001 small decisions needed to be made in the game development process.

    bellow i am sharing a post as it appears on our NAFNA BLOG, and i would like to hear responses as to similar dilemmas and solutions, hoping this may become a "open book" with valuable insights for the game designing community.

    what design dilemmas do you face?
    how do you solve these dilemmas?


    here is the original blog post content:

    "In game design, and this is one of the things that in my point of view make it so interesting, you have to make choices! many many choices.

    there are easy choices, those in witch the solution is data or analytical driven. not that it is always easy to find the correct data, but once you have it, the decision is easy; an icon design issue? no problem, test test and test, eventually you will find a CTR, and the numbers will whisper to you: a 2,4 click through rate is higher than a 2,13 click through rate! now the choice is easy!?

    i found this quote on the holy grail of internet knowledge, wikipedia;

    “In engineering, a design choice is a possible solution to a problem. Given a design task and a governing set of criteria (design specifications), several conceptual designs may be drafted. Each of these preliminary concepts is a potential design choice. Many never advance beyond the preliminary phase; those that are developed to the point where they could actually be applied become the pool from which the final selection is made. This process stems from the principle that there is usually no uniquely right way of accomplishing any task.”

    the difficult choices are those that apparently have no “mathematical”, “logic” or “data” favoring … the decision is more of an artistic challenge the a scientific challenge.

    bellow i describe one of many DESIGN DILEMMAS we have/had with the level_menu of Asslay Gore our coming endless hack&slash.

    [​IMG]

    all design dilemmas occur from a situation of observation, shall it be from team members or from test users.

    1. in this specific case it has been from test users: the top image the “test” was the level_menu screen that we used during the Indie Prize showcase in amsterdam. a simple observation led me to conclude that the users did not understand that what we thought to be a very good “ENTER” button, was actually a ENTER/PLAY button … and made no use of it – BAD DESIGN! conclusion: we need new design.

    the second image; the “definition” is the first sketch layout i made, to pass to the design team. in it i try to point out to all the needs we have in the new level_menu design: i wanted a clear recognizable PLAY button, i wanted a HELP/TUTORIAL button, and the option to go back to the MAIN MENU/HOME page.

    the following three images vs1 vs2 and vs3 are results from a round of Visual Storming … like brain storming but with images …

    eventually you have to make a decision.

    in this case, we did not like any of the Visual Storming results and opt for a different solution (not final) all together: build a spacial tutorial level, that must be played before this, or any of the following 5 levels can be played.

    is it the best solution? i dont know, for this we will have to go through the same process again and again until we are happy: test, test and test.
     
  2. Rasterman

    Rasterman Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2010
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    Game Monger
    Tampa, FL
    I think you are getting ahead of yourself, wasting time on such trivialities isn't important, any menu will work, as long as the user can understand it, if they can't, then fix it, why not use some words? 3 words and it doesn't matter what icon you use, and 100% of people will know exactly what you mean.
     
  3. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Getting the user to the game quickly is important but the menu is close to the least important part of the game.

    With something as minimal as this I would suggest having the game in the background.
     
  4. liteking

    liteking Well-Known Member

    Aug 1, 2013
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    Indie Game Developer
    Designing a good, user-friendly UI is important. Luckily there are a lot of knowledge already existed in this field.
    You can read books on UI/UX design like "Don't make me think",... Though most books focus on web UI design, it's applicable for games too.
     
  5. NAFNA GAMES

    NAFNA GAMES Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2013
    72
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    do stuff during the day. indie developer at night.
    Barcelona.
    "dont make me think ..."

    good morning liteking, Destined, Rasterman and friends ...

    great quote! "DONT MAKE ME THINK" ... and other tips "Getting the user to the game quickly"

    Raterman, we want to avoid words for the simple reason that we want people from Korea, France, Peru, Kongo and all nations play the game comfortably not only english dominators.

    and i don't feel we are wasting time. we are an Indie studio! we have limited capabilities, so with in our limitations we must push 100%! and MENU design helps to build the over all look&feel of a game! it transmits our efforts.

    i am posting here our almost final layout design ... look at it and tell me: is it not more friendly than the "out come" design?

    [​IMG]

    thanks for the advice! even if not always agreed to, all is taken in consideration.
     
  6. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Personally I think if you having one level per screen and swiping, "the test" version is probably the best with the icon changed to home.
     
  7. liteking

    liteking Well-Known Member

    Aug 1, 2013
    74
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    Indie Game Developer
    If you want to know more about this field, I suggest going to Amazon and do a search for "UX" or "User Experience", you will find lots of good books there.
    I've been reading a few, and they are extremely helpful
     
  8. OnlyJoe

    OnlyJoe Well-Known Member

    Sep 29, 2013
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    Auckland
    I think the home button is a bit too prominent. You really want to guide users to click to play the level, so why are you giving equal importance to going back to the home screen.
     
  9. NAFNA GAMES

    NAFNA GAMES Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2013
    72
    1
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    do stuff during the day. indie developer at night.
    Barcelona.
    play? home?

    very good point! thanks Onlyjoe ... we will take that in consideration, and now we have a rule #247 in UI design: its the "what do we want users to do?" question that should dominate our UI design. ;)

    and thanks all for the feedback ...
     
  10. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    I assume the ticket thing is the level, why did you choose not to make the ticket the thing to click?
     
  11. NAFNA GAMES

    NAFNA GAMES Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2013
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    do stuff during the day. indie developer at night.
    Barcelona.
    click the ticket

    Hello Destined, true the "ticket thing" is the level, 1 of 7 levels that you select via a SLIDE to the left or SLIDE to the right. as the tickets are relatively big, I don't want an option of players clicking while trying to slide, or sliding while trying to click ... It's about making the flow very clear, and what can be more clear than the well known PLAY button? That is our intention and I hope we achieve it.

    Thanks for asking, all the best,

    Nadav
     
  12. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    You can just check if the touch is a tap and hasn't moved much. Lots of systems have swipe and tap in the same area.

    I think your case outlining the ticket and making that the clickable area would be clearer than play because it gives you the information about what you are doing. It also makes the interface cleaner. The play button could confuse people because I rarely see a play button and swiping. I am thinking of all the games that have swiping between levels like angry birds and none have a play button.
     
  13. NAFNA GAMES

    NAFNA GAMES Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2013
    72
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    do stuff during the day. indie developer at night.
    Barcelona.
    Ill re scan all our "reference" games, and re open the debate tomorrow morning when the team gets together!

    Thnx
     
  14. thegraywolf

    thegraywolf Active Member

    Feb 3, 2014
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    Personally, I also think that you should try to make the ticket clickable.. I just don't see the play button working well with your design.
     
  15. NAFNA GAMES

    NAFNA GAMES Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2013
    72
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    do stuff during the day. indie developer at night.
    Barcelona.
    button size color and shape!

    a few weeks ago i have posted a design dilemma we had, the TA community response was great, and we eventually acted on some of the advice we got.

    so here is an other dilemma!

    i call it main menu button size color shape dilemma!

    [​IMG]

    and

    [​IMG]

    what do you think? why?
    did you have similar dilemmas?

    all the best,

    Nadav
     
  16. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    I have no idea what the up triangle does.

    In the second the diamond I figure is an type of currency but in the one above that isn't clear (although playing might make it clear).

    I prefer the round ones but doesn't make a heap of difference.
     
  17. tea

    tea Well-Known Member

    Jul 23, 2010
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    Well, a dilemma should be a critical choice...

    Have a look here:

    [​IMG]

    So, why did we revamp the menu in the 1st place? Because the 1st menu is obviously not so good? NO. We revamped the menu because Apple kindly 'encouraged us' to improve the UI.

    Now, am I happy with the new menu? NO. Although it's much better it has obvious flaws, one being the lack of clear icons vs text (saves so much on i18n).
    Our designer also asked for changes to the latest layout, they think it's not balanced. Do I care? Yes and no. I care about designers (in fact every collaborator) feeling happy/proud of their work. But I felt my time could be better used than redoing the layout, postponing the layout-redo to the next update.

    Whether the buttons should be round or hexagonal? Heck. Sometimes the solution is obvious, like we have on our menu a blatantly central area (it's animated too...) as your ticket was blatantly in the middle of the screen and the 'dilemma' in fact pointed at the need to transform the ticket into a play button (or altogether remove it!).
    In our case too, this central area is somewhat awkward, but it illustrates / clarifies something ultra-essential about the game concept, so, at the loss of elegance (I could tell somebody would tap on that way before it happened), I let it be.

    Overall I don't think these should keep your team busy. I think...

    1) This kinda stuff should keep a designer busy (not the whole team), the designer should brainstorm and bring an acceptable solution. Acceptable means, tacitly, we know it's okay because nobody on the team (or in the user base) complained.
    2) Every time (every. single. time.) I watch somebody playing one of my games I see a design issue. So, flag the design issue and assign it to a designer, the end.

    In conclusion, yes, design is full of micro-decisions, but no, only few of these decisions are dilemma. If I worry about re-designing the main menu at all (in fact I do) it will be because I already spotted a key improvement that can dramatically affect the UX (or sales, monetisation... something important :p ).

    Decisions are easier when they can be linked with quantifiable outcomes? Yes. Can you link every decision with quantifiable outcomes? Yes, mostly. "A-B testing" can be applied to almost anything, if you worry about hexagon vs square vs round buttons, get the dev team to help deploying competing solutions simultaneously... Aside from putting your mind at rest you will find that, over time, this approach can become extremely valuable.
     
  18. NAFNA GAMES

    NAFNA GAMES Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2013
    72
    1
    0
    do stuff during the day. indie developer at night.
    Barcelona.
    the diamond (?)

    well, the diamond is gone. and what replaces it is a new icon for a "revolutionary" feature that we are still trying to pull off.

    im surprised you said nothing about the color.

    all the best,

    Nadav
     
  19. NAFNA GAMES

    NAFNA GAMES Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2013
    72
    1
    0
    do stuff during the day. indie developer at night.
    Barcelona.
    every thing

    hello Tea,

    it does not keep the team busy, just me ... although almost impossible, i try to give thought to each and every element of the game! i ask my self: why is it like this? how can it be better? ... will i always be correct? no. but i will try.

    we are a 3 man indie (not even full time), we have limited capabilities, so the things we can do, we will try to do 120%!

    have a great weekend,

    nadav
     
  20. BlindAlbino

    BlindAlbino Well-Known Member

    Dec 19, 2012
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    I am Co-Founder and Art Director for Blind Albino,
    La Habra Hights, California
    Hi gang!

    So as you can probably guess, this subject is near and dear to our hearts here at Blind Albino Studios. I've worked as an art director in many pipelines prior to our current collective, and the main catalyst for me starting Blind Albino was the notion that second/third/fourth guessing, or even crowdsourcing minute aesthetic details inevitably diluted the core vision of the projects. (When Pigs Fly is obviously a narrative pulled directly from my own job experience...)

    I don't mean to poo poo retooling, public testing, critique, etc. I'm merely suggesting that from this art director's experience, it is mostly artists' and designers' responsibility to make aesthetic choices, and then to be confident when delivering their core vision to the team. Not in the egomaniacal sense, but with the purpose of inspiring confidence within the team, so they can all focus intently on their own specific talents and tasks.

    Now getting back to your thread here, Nadav, I feel akin to your situation. We also are a small team, and the burden of design rests pretty much entirely on my own shoulders as well. But that burden is a blessing, really. Pass or fail, in the end you know that you followed your own vision and gave it your ALL! Not every endeavor in life can offer as much freedom and opportunity for self expression, and I get the sense that you truly appreciate this aspect. Inspiring project my friend, and inspiring posts. Keep them coming!

    Matt
     

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